tips for qualifying with a bolt action rifle

[grunt soldier]

I have been rereading this thread and I have to disagree with one point and I think it's just personal preference but you do not have to clean your rifle after every shoot.  I usually only clean mine once I start having malfunctions or accuracy drops off.  I guess if it's acting gritty then you need to check that out. however I have ran thousands of rounds through my guns with no cleaning and they are still fine. 

[GEmanuel]

I have been rereading this thread and I have to disagree with one point and I think it's just personal preference but you do not have to clean your rifle after every shoot.  I usually only clean mine once I start having malfunctions or accuracy drops off.  I guess if it's acting gritty then you need to check that out. however I have ran thousands of rounds through my guns with no cleaning and they are still fine.

GS the reason for cleaning a rifle after use is so that we don't get near the point where we begin to have malfunctions. As for accuracy you may only get one shot, and that should be taken from a cold clean bore, just as it would in hunting for example!
Appleseeds bring out the malfunctions like nothing else. Hundreds of rounds on Saturday, repeated on Sunday. Much of the ammunition we see is typically 'dirty' and compounds the problem. A Rifle should be cleaned after use.
People are tired after a long day, but, I believe they should clean and lube the rifle on Saturday evening before returning on Sunday. Some may even need to be cleaned during the shoot.

[grunt soldier]

I have been rereading this thread and I have to disagree with one point and I think it's just personal preference but you do not have to clean your rifle after every shoot.  I usually only clean mine once I start having malfunctions or accuracy drops off.  I guess if it's acting gritty then you need to check that out. however I have ran thousands of rounds through my guns with no cleaning and they are still fine.

GS the reason for cleaning a rifle after use is so that we don't get near the point where we begin to have malfunctions. As for accuracy you may only get one shot, and that should be taken from a cold clean bore, just as it would in hunting for example!
Appleseeds bring out the malfunctions like nothing else. Hundreds of rounds on Saturday, repeated on Sunday. Much of the ammunition we see is typically 'dirty' and compounds the problem. A Rifle should be cleaned after use.
People are tired after a long day, but, I believe they should clean and lube the rifle on Saturday evening before returning on Sunday. Some may even need to be cleaned during the shoot.

I can respect that opinion.  I have had better luck and accuracy keeping it semi dirty until I notice a loss in accuracy (usually doesn't occur until 600 plus rounds)  there is debates about this all the time on a lot of forums.  to each there own but I understand what your getting at.

[Charles McKinley]

At 600 rounds you can clean it saturday night or after the second AQT Sunday.  YMMV

[grunt soldier]

At 600 rounds you can clean it saturday night or after the second AQT Sunday.  YMMV

yeah I guess my mileage does vary.  I have one 10-22 with over 2k rounds through it and hasn't had a malfunction yet or anything done other than wiping the bolt and receiver down, I got a AR with more rounds than that through it, same thing,    I shot rifleman with the 10-22 at my last shoot at a 232 or so.  Like I said to each there own.  this has been debated on many forums one of the bigger being snipershide and you will have varying people with different results.  my results have been best not cleaning on a regular.  it keeps the rifle consistent for me.   if you want to clean and scrub yours on a regular, that is fine also.

[Mark Davis]

When writing of cleaning, no one specifies if they are cleaning the bore or the action or both.
My opinion, with .22 lr the bore does not need a lot of cleaning.
The action is another story, especially when fired in windy conditions, with the rifle, bolt open spending time on the ground.
Throw in a little dust moving, and the need to clean the action ramps up.

[grunt soldier]

lol good points sir. very true we should be more specific. I'm mainly talking about the bore.  I never run anything through the barrel until I notice a accuracy drop off.  and with the rest of the rifle.  I don't do much if the rifle is running right.  if it's giving me any problems it gets a solid cleaning and that usually fixes anything.  if it's been really windy and we were in the dirt I will give it a wipe down and lube up but if my rifle is running right I leave it be for the most part.

[2-Fat]

With my particular bolt-action Mossberg, I've noticed that it seems to take 50-60 rounds through a freshly cleaned bore before the groups settle down and tighten up.  Or it may just be that *I* need to shoot 50-60 rounds before I settle down and start shooting better groups.  I shoot mostly 40gr. lead standard velocity through it, and I've fired at least 400 rounds between cleanings of the bore with no noticeable effect on accuracy.

[Shooter30-06]

No one, and most certainly my wife, has ever accused me of being obsessed with keeping things clean.  However, I always clean my rifles of any type of action after every shooting session.  I believe a rifle which has been cleaned will function more reliably.  John Adams said we cannot insure success but we can deserve it.  If I have a fail to feed or fail to extract during a transition, I at least want the comfort of knowing I did everything I could to prevent it.

[2 clicks low]

I at least want the comfort of knowing I did everything I could to prevent it.

[Justsomedude]

About the cleaning thing....

Running a Boresnake every couple of hundred rounds isn't too difficult and keeps things running pretty well for me.
What I HATE is when the Bolt and or Trigger start feeling gritty.
Good old Remington Gold tends to bring that on.

[oladcock]

My dad taught me 50 years ago if I took a rifle out and didn't shoot it, I at least wiped the salty finger prints off it. If I shot it one time, it got a full cleaning before being put away. It's served me well. I've noticed new rifles (as in low round count) the bore will be dirtier that older more broken in rifles with any given round count. I now use bore polish on any new rifle to speed up that break in process and I'm amazed how clean they are even after 400-500 rounds between cleaning....O.L.

[techres]

My approach:

Corrosive ammo = clean.
Non-Corrosive ammo = clean occasionally.
Rifle that will not run without cleaning every trip to the range = sell.

Especially with the 22's, they run dirty and have far more consistency for me.

My other rifles are battle rifles and need to work in any condition.  They do not get abused, but they do not get babied either.  Usually add lube/clp as needed.

[2-Fat]

Can you keep your aim while you cycle your bolt without losing cheek weld?  A cheek riser can help.  If your bolt is short enough, it can be done.  That keeps you on target between shots.  Concentrate on good shots, remember that  7-5 pointers beats 10-3 pointers.  Make up the difference on stage 4.

I can now, the Shoot Boss helped by making me a cheek riser out of a piece of foam and a few feet of camo tape. Now my cheek settles in with the top of my transition bifocals at the proper eye relief behind the scope, and I can hold on the target for follow-through, working the bolt with two fingers. With bifocals, I found that I had to move my head up and down to reacquire the reticle properly, otherwise it was either blurry, or I got a double vision view from looking through the transition line on my glasses.

[desertrat144]

My dad taught me 50 years ago if I took a rifle out and didn't shoot it, I at least wiped the salty finger prints off it. If I shot it one time, it got a full cleaning before being put away. It's served me well. I've noticed new rifles (as in low round count) the bore will be dirtier that older more broken in rifles with any given round count. I now use bore polish on any new rifle to speed up that break in process and I'm amazed how clean they are even after 400-500 rounds between cleaning....O.L.

Bore-Weasels are a saving grace on many rifles; oddly the Brits introduced them in the early cartridge era of our Civil War, or War of Northern Aggression depending on where you live.  Running a brush through a 22 LR is a quick way to wear out the rifling on most due to the mfg. process, cleaning the internal mechanisms is a must.
There are a number of sprays and spray solvents that do this nicely; everyone has their own favorite, so I won't get into that here.

Great tips and ideas all!  Thank you all!

Tom

[jimmythegeek]

All the procedures make perfect sense as stated with my Marlin 795, but I'll need to adapt some things for my bolt action CZ-455. 

What's the correct procedure for the position transitions with a bolt action rifle? I can't flip the safety on with the bolt back, but bolt back strikes me as "safer" than bolt forward, safety on.  Mine uses removable mags so it's easy to establish that it is unloaded.  (though it does not have a magazine safety - round in the chamber, bolt down, it'll shoot if I pull the trigger), so that chamber flag is if anything more important than with my semi-auto. 

I want to practice the way I'll shoot at my next Appleseed, the way the shoot boss will require me to do it. 

In other news, dry fire practice is going well.  I can get 10 quality "shots" off in the time alloted more times than not.  Stage 1 should help a little, and Stage 4 a lot.  Thanks for all the tips!  Now if April 21 would hurry up and get here...

[slim]

That's up to the shoot boss.

[techres]

That's up to the shoot boss.

Yup, and you can always contact the SB ahead of time.

[Rocket Man]

All the procedures make perfect sense as stated with my Marlin 795, but I'll need to adapt some things for my bolt action CZ-455. 

What's the correct procedure for the position transitions with a bolt action rifle? I can't flip the safety on with the bolt back, but bolt back strikes me as "safer" than bolt forward, safety on.  Mine uses removable mags so it's easy to establish that it is unloaded.  (though it does not have a magazine safety - round in the chamber, bolt down, it'll shoot if I pull the trigger), so that chamber flag is if anything more important than with my semi-auto.

Sounds to me like you answered your own question.  The line command calls for "safeties on."  For you to switch on your safety, you have to close your bolt.  So you close your bolt on an empty chamber and switch on your safety.

Then when you get the "Fire" command, you drop into position, load a magazine, switch off the safety, and rack the bolt before engaging your target.

Not seeing a problem here.  You'll just have one extra step.   

[Nickle]

Well, here's a definite gray area.

I am of the mind that it's OK for bolt guns that the safety will not work with the bolt open to transition with the safety off and the bolt open. We get one choice or the other, bolt open/safety off or bolt closed/safety on.

It's a no-brainer (AKA, common sense) for me, bolt open, safety off.

[Unbridled Liberty]

"On Bolt rifles, ensure the bolt is back and the magazine well is empty. There is no need to have the safety on."

RWVA Instructor Manual v5.0, page 19

This is in the Safe Rifle section, but would it not apply here?

UL

[GEmanuel]

I believe the reference you quote is for a "safe rifle" which by definition is grounded with no one touching the rifle. Transitions would not fall under this provision therefor.
I do not feel that the bolt should be closed until the shooter has acquired his SHFs, and is ready to establish NPOA at least. Based on the particular stage being engaged. In fact all bolts (if possible based on the rifle)should really be open until then as it makes it much easier for the LSO, RSO, LB etc to see that the rifle is as safe as it can be with a shooter transitioning with it. In addition with the bolt open, after the magazine is inserted the forward stroke of the bolt will pick up a round and chamber it. Otherwise the bolt must manually be pulled to the rear first. Not a big deal, but, the stage is timed. Of course the chamber flag had been removed during the preparation period.
Perhaps this might be something to consider/clarify in the review of the IM.

[Nickle]

OK, at least temporarily, let's have them make the transition with the bolt open and the safety on if possible. If not possible to have the bolt open and the safety on, then they should have the bolt open.

The priority is to ensure the chamber is empty (by an open bolt and the mag out). The safety on is secondary to that.

There will be a 100% official answer on this shortly.

[Rocket Man]

I guess I'm still not seeing the problem.

There is nothing proscribing against transitioning with the bolt closed.  The vast majority of shooters already do this.  They should have been doing dry practice in their prep period, and the line command is not "bolts open, safeties on, stand," it's just the latter  two.

The Safe Rifle guidelines don't apply here because we're not dealing with an unattended rifle.  After all, you cannot "Step Back" and then do a transition.  The only safety processes that apply here are:

• The Four Safety Rules

and

• The Line Boss command "safeties on, stand"

Nothing about those five guidelines says anything about the bolt.  So long as your muzzle is in a safe direction, you haven't Loaded since you haven't gotten a Load command, your finger is off the trigger since your sights aren't on the target, and you're making sure those around you are following the safety rules, you're golden.

In this particular case, the shooter "can" engage the safety, he merely has to close the bolt first.  So go ahead and close the bolt, and then engage the safety.  Simple.

There are edge cases, of course, of rifles that don't have a manual safety, or maybe rifles that can't engage the safety without a chambered round.  In such cases the shooter should work with the Line Boss for an appropriate alternate safety measure.  For instance, keeping the action open until after the transition.  On my line I'm satisfied with that in just about every case.

If a truly weird rifle ever shows up that can't be made safe for transition to the Line Boss's satisfaction, the only choice is to not do the transition.  I haven't run into anything like this yet.

Looking forward to the official explanation, but I believe this case is pretty simple.

[Charles McKinley]

I'll take an open bolt over the reliance of a mechanical device any day.  Much easier to see an open bolt over an "on" safety also.

[Rocket Man]

I'll take an open bolt over the reliance of a mechanical device any day.  Much easier to see an open bolt over an "on" safety also.

That works fine until you've got a dozen new shooters on the line with stock Ruger 10/22's, every single one of them fumbling to lock back and release their bolts rather than paying attention to their muzzles.

There is no requirement for the instructors to actually see the students follow the "Safeties On" command.  Heck, once in a while I freeze them in standing and give them a pop inspection to keep them on their toes, particularly if it's a relatively inattentive group.  Seems to work better...

[techres]

Rocket man,

I think the discussion over safeties vs open bolts here has become specific to bolt action rifles and not standard semi-autos.

With a semi, the safety option is far better - hand down.  That is true especially with a 10/22 which you are hoping they have all released and dropped before the prep period ends.

We are not talking about that.  We are talking about bolt action rifles only.  With them you end up with a counteracting manual of arms.

Either the safety is on and the bolt is closed and unloaded which puts them behind in stages two and three.  Or they have the bolt open and safety off which allows them to still be perfectly safe and faster into action.

Personally as a SB I am fine with open bolt and happier that way for a bolt rifle.  On some rifles it is the only real option as I am not going to ask the mosin owner to fight taking off the safety before opening the bolt, fighting the stripper clip, closing the bolt and taking the only shot of ten that they are going to get off in 55 seconds. 

The same for the cricket owner, etc.  That is not productive and really not necessary.

Leave the ammo on the mat, stand with your bolt wide open, and transition that way to the mat.

The procedure is designed around 99.9% of the rifles on the line.  For the other .1% we can use our rifleman skills of adaptation and still keep our layers of safety perfectly intact.

But the exception is only to the boltguns as the shoot boss sees fit...

[Rocket Man]

Personally as a SB I am fine with open bolt and happier that way for a bolt rifle.  On some rifles it is the only real option as I am not going to ask the mosin owner to fight taking off the safety before opening the bolt, fighting the stripper clip, closing the bolt and taking the only shot of ten that they are going to get off in 55 seconds. 

I understand, and I'm in agreement with you.  Had lots of Mosins and Crickets on my lines...  Similarly, while I can enage the safety on my M1917 with the bolt open, it's not really supposed to do that.

Nonetheless, I wanted to clarify that substituting an open bolt in place of mechanical safeties isn't done to make the transition safer.  We have plenty of other methods to ensure that. 

The shooter in this case is welcome to ask the Line Boss if open bolt is OK, and if I was that Line Boss I'd be fine with it (or even suggest it).  Don't think any revisiting of the safety rules is needed here.

[Mutti]

...my remedy is to rock my body/rifle towards the trigger hand while working the bolt then fall back into the relaxed position retaining MPOA. I practice this way with the rimfire also even though it is not really needed.

I wanted to thank you George - I'm a relative newbie when it comes to the bolt action, but my DH almost made Rifleman with the Marlin Bolt action last month - so I've gotta' keep up.

Any suggestions when Sitting? I find cycling the bolt difficult from that position. I'd like to get more efficient before moving up to Centerfire.

[Nickle]

OK, the official decision is made.

Semi-auto rifles, bolts closed or open, but must have the safety on. The only reason we want to allow bolts closed here is the potential problems with locking back 10/22's, plus the simple fact that some rifles can't be locked back.

Bolt actions, the bolt must be open, safety on or off, preferably on. Also applies to lever actions.

There's the safest way to do it.

And, so we all know, several MI's have discussed this. It's official, and will be integrated into the upcoming Instructor Manual revision.