Author Topic: Pecos 2011 Run N Gun Aftermath  (Read 1861 times)

alonso1

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Pecos 2011 Run N Gun Aftermath
« on: October 18, 2011, 07:43:19 PM »
Thanks to all the Appleseeders who attended this event and helped promote Appleseed to a large group of very dedicated shooters.

I wore an Appleseed shirt every day (not the same one ;D) and several people inquired about our program simply because of the shirt and as usual, they showed intrest and asked for a website address.

In fact, this was the second year Appleseed competed in this event and the promoter of the Pecos Run N Gun stated he wants to have an Appleseed shooting station for next years event.  Currently, a competetor may use a magazine as a mono pod, shooting sticks, or any other rest they are willing to carry to steady their Rifle as they fire at their targets...  I just don't see this happening at an Appleseed shooting station  ::)

Next year I hope we have even more Appleseeder's in Pecos.

I don't have any pictures so maybe some of you can post a few.

Keep walking, keep running, keep shooting, stay healthy and let's do it again next year.

Mark


Offline Aromatic

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Re: Pecos 2011 Run N Gun Aftermath
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2011, 11:44:42 PM »
Another great event by Smokey and his crew.  There were a lot of ASers there (13+ of 74).  Send me a PM if you want a pic removed.

The arena...















Our very own Voortrekker briefing shooters on his stage



We are off....







alonso1 gets credit for taking many of these pics.  As you can imagine, taking pics is low on the list of concerns  :~



« Last Edit: October 19, 2011, 12:03:17 AM by Aromatic »

Offline zonkertx

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Re: Pecos 2011 Run N Gun Aftermath
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2011, 01:08:36 AM »
Sorry to miss PR&G this year.  Looks like a lot of fun, at least compared to the heat of last time around.  Good to hear Appleseed made a strong show of support for this unique event.  Unfortunately, a "perfect storm" of events conspired against me, and I was stuck on call for work (requires cell/data coverage, which doesn't exist out there) and with a blown car engine.  New head/pistons/conrods finally arrived today, and I'll try my best to get the beast running again in order to work the Fredericksburg shoot this weekend.  If Murphy doesn't jack up the task as he does with all things automotive and plumbing, that is.

Looking forward to humping the FAL through the dust next year!

Offline K98Al

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Re: Pecos 2011 Run N Gun Aftermath
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2011, 08:16:09 AM »
This was a fun, fun, FUN event! Great test of your equipment and yourself. Smokey and his crew put on a great event. An Appleseed station sounds great! I've already recruited my son for next year, and I'm trying to get some more Okies to make the trip....
Before we can defeat our external enemies, we must first meet and defeat everything in ourselves that is weak, lazy, and cowardly; everything in our character that is materialistic rather than spiritual, which seeks weak compromise and accommodation rather than struggle and victory.

Offline Sir Not Appearing In This Film

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Re: Pecos 2011 Run N Gun Aftermath
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2011, 11:03:37 AM »
Great to see some pics with familiar faces! Who do I pm to get more?  ++)

Man, the Texas drought has really affected that area as compared to last year, but those mule deer seem to be doing OK.  ;D

I think a 13 round redcoat or...

a "Texas Star" target with a 5 round NPOA drill where the shooter shoots prone with the sights blocked/interrupted by an RSO and scoring based on group size would be a real challenge.  :---
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Offline Aromatic

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Re: Pecos 2011 Run N Gun Aftermath
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2011, 11:14:21 AM »
I think the tentative plan is for a full distance Redcoat stage.

Offline Scout

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Re: Pecos 2011 Run N Gun Aftermath
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2011, 11:28:17 AM »
Mark said it all :) It was a great time and a great showing by Appleseed members who were almost in the majority for the RSOs who helped run the course. This was noted by the organizers who said they wished all their folks were as ready to help as the AS folks were.

By the end of the weekend no one who attended did not know what Appleseed was about and like Mark said we will be gettting an Appleseed station next year. 

Almost 7 miles of running (in my case walking ..kind of fast...at times... maybe ;)) and shooting at varied/multiple targets and known/ unknown distances out to 400 meters will quickly show you where you have gaps in your rifle skills that are in need of maintenance.

This year I ran with my Garand and found that my inattention to weak side/off hand shooting really hurt me at the 240 meter weak hand/off hand targets. Also, a Garand is very heavy, if you need to make off hand shoots at distance you need to have good cardio and upper body strength and not be out of breath from climbing a steep hill when you get to a station.  ;)

Thanks to all who participated and helped spread the Appleseed message. Hope to see an even larger presence next year.

Scout

PS- Look at that sweet shooting mat you get to use at the 400 meter station...oh wait...those are sharp rocks... ;)
« Last Edit: October 19, 2011, 11:36:18 AM by Scout »
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Offline Scout

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Re: Pecos 2011 Run N Gun Aftermath
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2011, 11:50:31 AM »
One last thing, I wanted to congratulate Mark for placing in the top ten this year at the Run and Gun. Placing in the top ten in this event is a huge accomplishment. I do not know anyone elses placements,(mine was not ready at the banquet) but I do know that Mark, Al, and Nick were monsters on the course.

They did a great job and ran a fast race. I know all the AS folks did great but I really only knew those guys from seeing them running the course and hearing Mark's scores at the banquet on Saturday night.

Next year Mark has pledged to run a top three place race, I am sure Nick and Al will be in the top ten as they are great runners and shooters and I have pledged to run a top ten race myself. It would be nice to fill the top ten with Appleseeders next year :)

Contact Mark, Nick, Al, or myself for any info for next years event. Preparation, Course requirements, Travel, hotel camping etc.
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Offline voortrekker

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Re: Pecos 2011 Run N Gun Aftermath
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2011, 12:59:41 PM »
WOW!!!  The 10th Annual Pecos Run N Gun was huge fun!

I really enjoyed the opportunity to be in the company of my RWVA Riflemen brethren and many, many other like minded folks.

If you have never been to the Pecos Run N Gun, you are missing out on a very, very unique event.

Congrats Alonso1 for placing in the top ten!!!!!

The morning briefing







Shooting Station #2, shooting right and left handed and a run for the center.  This guy can really move and shoot.  He earned top time for this station.



A different shooter at station #2




And yet another shooter at station #2 running for the center targets




My Brother shooting station #5.  He nailed the 400yd steel pretty darn quick.  Good job Bro!



This guy needs to stop bringing anchors to shoot with at Pecos Run N Gun



Brother at station #2, six pistol poppers and one 200yd rifle shot.  Lot's of fun!!



Brothers that shoot together, stay together!!!



Well, these are the only pics I have for show and tell.  Anybody else got pics?...........
If YOU are thinking, WE are winning.

Offline henschman

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Re: Pecos 2011 Run N Gun Aftermath
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2011, 01:16:28 PM »
Looks like fun... I wanted to go this year, but it ended up getting re-scheduled for the same date as the inaugural Appleseed at a really nice gun club where we expected a pretty big turnout.  But I am down for next year! 

So what kind of sling setup do you guys find works best for securing the rifle during the run?

Also, I had heard reports from prior events to the effect that 5.56mm didn't always produce audible hits on the longer-ranged steel.  Did anyone have any issues with that this time?  I will probably run a 30 cal, but I was just curious since I saw a lot of AR types in the pics. 
"Of liberty I would say that, in the whole plenitude of its extent, it is unobstructed action according to our will. But rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law,' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual."
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Offline K98Al

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Re: Pecos 2011 Run N Gun Aftermath
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2011, 01:50:10 PM »
The .223s were hard to hear at 400, especially when the wind kicked up.

 I will run my M1A again next year - but I will keep an eye on the gas tube nut. Mine had started backing out, giving me a single shot M1a for the entire course. I kept thinking dust and dirt, and never looked at that - shows how I lost focus.Great lesson, though.
 This is such a great event - I remember my first AS, Fred asked "if you had to use your rifle to defend your home, how effective would you be?"
 This course shows you, not only if you can hit targets, but can you hit when you're tired, stressed, breathing hard, dust in your eyes, etc...

Appleseed station  - how about three targets at 300, with mag change, no bipod, rest or resting on mag?
Before we can defeat our external enemies, we must first meet and defeat everything in ourselves that is weak, lazy, and cowardly; everything in our character that is materialistic rather than spiritual, which seeks weak compromise and accommodation rather than struggle and victory.

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Re: Pecos 2011 Run N Gun Aftermath
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2011, 01:53:47 PM »
Awesome guys.
Outstanding job.
A couple of my goals for 2012.
1 Attend the Alvin York Muzzleloader shoot in Tn. at the end of March.
2 Attend the Pecos Run and Gun.
Better get started I guess (training)

Thanks for the great photos.
My hat is off to everyone of you.
This is quite a feat to pull off.
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Offline voortrekker

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Re: Pecos 2011 Run N Gun Aftermath
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2011, 01:54:12 PM »
Looks like fun... I wanted to go this year, but it ended up getting re-scheduled for the same date as the inaugural Appleseed at a really nice gun club where we expected a pretty big turnout.  But I am down for next year! 

So what kind of sling setup do you guys find works best for securing the rifle during the run?

Also, I had heard reports from prior events to the effect that 5.56mm didn't always produce audible hits on the longer-ranged steel.  Did anyone have any issues with that this time?  I will probably run a 30 cal, but I was just curious since I saw a lot of AR types in the pics.

I was using a GI nylon sling with M1A.  It works but next year I will likely try a padded biathalon sling and a TIS sling shooting a AR15 variant.

The above average AR15 carbine shooters I spoke with were having no problems hitting steel at 400yds WITHOUT a bipod or using a sling to stabilize the rifle.

I am gonna practice shooting prone at 400yds without a sling and see what happens in preparation for the next event.  You need speed to win this event and slinging up might take too much time.  Maybe the guys RSOing station #5 can chime in on best advice shooting 400yds very quickly and accurately from watching all the shooters going through this station.

I was manning a 200yd station with 6 oclock 10mph wind, it was really difficult at times hearing the 556 hitting steel so we took turns spotting hits with binoculars.  That worked well.

hope this helps...............
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Offline K98Al

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Re: Pecos 2011 Run N Gun Aftermath
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2011, 02:08:45 PM »
I used the GI sling, loosened it up to run with, and as I approached a station, took it off and tightened it up. (hasty sling)

I did see a lot of guys hit steel with their little plastic rifles, but the ones without a bipod were often using the mag as a rest. And used a scope! No kidding! Saw a couple pull off their packs and use the as a rest also.

Seriously, if you really want to go fast, an AR carbine with some kind of optic IS the way to go. My M1A is my "end of days" rifle, so that's what I run with. 
Before we can defeat our external enemies, we must first meet and defeat everything in ourselves that is weak, lazy, and cowardly; everything in our character that is materialistic rather than spiritual, which seeks weak compromise and accommodation rather than struggle and victory.

Offline Sir Not Appearing In This Film

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Re: Pecos 2011 Run N Gun Aftermath
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2011, 02:26:14 PM »
Looks like fun... I wanted to go this year, but it ended up getting re-scheduled for the same date as the inaugural Appleseed at a really nice gun club where we expected a pretty big turnout.  But I am down for next year! 

So what kind of sling setup do you guys find works best for securing the rifle during the run?

Also, I had heard reports from prior events to the effect that 5.56mm didn't always produce audible hits on the longer-ranged steel.  Did anyone have any issues with that this time?  I will probably run a 30 cal, but I was just curious since I saw a lot of AR types in the pics.

I was using a GI nylon sling with M1A.  It works but next year I will likely try a padded biathalon sling and a TIS sling shooting a AR15 variant.

The above average AR15 carbine shooters I spoke with were having no problems hitting steel at 400yds WITHOUT a bipod or using a sling to stabilize the rifle.

I am gonna practice shooting prone at 400yds without a sling and see what happens in preparation for the next event.  You need speed to win this event and slinging up might take too much time.  Maybe the guys RSOing station #5 can chime in on best advice shooting 400yds very quickly and accurately from watching all the shooters going through this station.

I was manning a 200yd station with 6 oclock 10mph wind, it was really difficult at times hearing the 556 hitting steel so we took turns spotting hits with binoculars.  That worked well.

hope this helps...............

Who says you are limited to one sling? My outside the box thinking circa 2009...


I used a Giles Wilderness sling (bought in 2001 - run what ya brung) for carrying the rifle and a USGI sling for stability on my M4gery in 2009 and 2010 PRNG events. The nylon strap in the back came loose during the 2009 run, so I used paracord on the buttstock to secure the rear of the sling and melted the knot for the 2010 event.

In 2010 I got tangled up (timeeater) on the left/right shoulder stage. That has me leaning towards a single point sling with a pushbutton QD attachment point where the buffer tube joins the receiver - just for carry. Reach the shooting station, push a button and you are free. A free float handguard with a sling attachment point would minimize the point of impact shift from using a hasty sling. I had most of the parts piled up for a new Colt barreled upper with free float handguard, but then learned I would miss 2011.

I think there is ALWAYS time for a hasty sling.
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Re: Pecos 2011 Run N Gun Aftermath
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2011, 02:28:16 PM »

I did see a lot of guys hit steel with their little plastic rifles, but the ones without a bipod were often using the mag as a rest. And used a scope! No kidding! Saw a couple pull off their packs and use the as a rest also.


If I am not mistaken, shooters are not allowed to take off anything they are carrying while they are shooting, including their packs. 

Smokey said next year there will be a designated "Red Coat" station.  I think it would be interesting to see how people shoot 300-400yds without bipods, shooting sticks, magazine monopods.   I saw alot of shooters dependent on bipods and shooting sticks.
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Offline K98Al

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Re: Pecos 2011 Run N Gun Aftermath
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2011, 04:22:43 PM »
They could take it off, but not leave it behind. (just like the shooting sticks being carried on backs w/sling)
Before we can defeat our external enemies, we must first meet and defeat everything in ourselves that is weak, lazy, and cowardly; everything in our character that is materialistic rather than spiritual, which seeks weak compromise and accommodation rather than struggle and victory.

Offline Aromatic

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Re: Pecos 2011 Run N Gun Aftermath
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2011, 04:51:41 PM »
The stage 5 targets were at 400 yards and measured 4.5 x 5.0 MOA (18 x 20").  Easily visible and hittable with irons.  I heard my hits on that stage pretty well with my 5.56 AR carbine.  The steel on that stage was of a different composition than the other stages so that is why I think they had better report.

I was on a stage that had  12" x 18" mild steel targets at 250-175 yards.  The hits could be difficult to hear at times, mostly due to the wind.  Some of the other RSOs had electronic ears and could hear the hits easily.

Same as many others, I used a USGI sling, but actually ended up just carrying the rifle most of the time.

On stage 4, it was difficult to get prone so it was interesting to see how people engaged the targets.  The fast ones just shot off hand.  Some guys, like Scout, shot through the bushes....  After watching people come through with tall bipods attached to their rifles, tripods, bipods, monopods, etc, I still think a good kneeling position is faster and just as stable. 

As for the AS stage, I have no issue with people using bipods or other shooting aids.  If they want to carry them and deploy them while on the clock (for the stage), then by all means.....





Offline spitstickler

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Re: Pecos 2011 Run N Gun Aftermath
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2011, 10:44:25 PM »
Quote
Who says you are limited to one sling? My outside the box thinking circa 2009...



SNAITF, That sure doesn't look like a Kalashnikov  :o   
(I had no idea that the cold front that blew was hell freezing over?)


Looks like you all did a great job! Way to represent!

I told several folks that had asked if I was going that (1) I don't run unless something big with sharp teeth is in pursuit with the intention of eating me, and (2) I don't have a rifle when said pursuit takes place.

I talked to Scout earlier today and he mentioned Alonso saying "See you in Concord" right when he took off. That kinda puts a different perspective on things. ...thinking about all those guys who ran miles to protect their colonial neighbors when they were in need. Many fought and then continued to run the rest of the day after those Red Coats, ...all the way back to Boston. Something for me to think about doing next year for sure.
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work."  -Thomas Edison

Offline POP

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Re: Pecos 2011 Run N Gun Aftermath
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2011, 11:25:01 PM »
Another great event. 
Mark, Nick, Michael, Al, Brendan, Scot, Smokey, ya'll did Appleseed proud.
I'll be back again with you next year.
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Offline floydf

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Re: Pecos 2011 Run N Gun Aftermath
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2011, 10:52:06 AM »
Is the weak side/hand a rifle station? (The photo sort of looks like it.)

How do guys with one eye shoot it?

(I checked my center fire rifles last night, and didn't see any obvious solution.)

Thanks,

Floyd

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Re: Pecos 2011 Run N Gun Aftermath
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2011, 11:15:26 PM »

SNAITF, That sure doesn't look like a Kalashnikov  :o   
(I had no idea that the cold front that blew was hell freezing over?)

One day, spitstickler, one day. The PSL keeps saying "me! me! me!" :---



I told several folks that had asked if I was going that (1) I don't run unless something big with sharp teeth is in pursuit with the intention of eating me, and (2) I don't have a rifle when said pursuit takes place.

That's no excuse.  ~~:)

I walked (briskly) both years and finished - despite horrific blisters. You'd have a good time. I have some footwear I can recommend now. :D
Ladyseed Man Slave

"In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing." - Theodore Roosevelt

Attitudes are contagious. I hope mine is worth catching.

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Re: Pecos 2011 Run N Gun Aftermath
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2011, 11:23:45 PM »
Is the weak side/hand a rifle station? (The photo sort of looks like it.)

Yes. Rifle is fired from alternating shoulders.

How do guys with one eye shoot it?

The best they can. A Rifleman always persists. Always.

Even if you timeout or run out of ammo on a stage - you persist.

To answer your question -  If I had but one eye I would perhaps consider an AR with a free floating rail foreend and a mini red dot optic mounted on an offset mount so that my one eye could be used when firing from a weak side. The rifle would be tilted to allow sight alignment on the weak side shoulder.

Pecos RNG is inspiring. You encounter challenges along the trail and learn to overcome them, even when you are just in the shower one morning months after the event is over and start thinking - I should have done/used... (fill in the blank).
Ladyseed Man Slave

"In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing." - Theodore Roosevelt

Attitudes are contagious. I hope mine is worth catching.