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Newbie Needs a Bit of Help

Started by gr8horses2003, August 04, 2011, 10:31:49 AM

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gr8horses2003

August 04, 2011, 10:31:49 AM
Hello! My name is Harry Baldwin.  I live near Staunton.  My son and I are going to attend our first Appleseed in Montpelier a little later in the month.  We are SO excited and have been making preparations furiously.  We have read the website, read the forum, gotten slings from the website, gotten targets and information from Fred's, practised and shot and practised. 

But, before the shoot, we would actually like to have an instructor type look over our "stuff" to be sure that it will pass muster.  We don't want the equipment to be an issue.  We really want to learn to shoot and want the focus to be on learning that, not messing with the equipment.  Not ever having done this, we don't really know what to expect or how to do it so a little personal help would be appreciated.

Thanks, in advance.

Harry Baldwin
(540)885-5779

jmdavis

#1
August 04, 2011, 10:59:49 AM
Harry,

It's good to hear from you. I think that we can offer some help.

Why don't you first let us know what equipment you will be bringing (Rifle and sights primarily) and then we can talk about things. It can be easy to get overwhelmed with all of the information that is available.

I have found that in most situations, a student's equipment works just fine (and this is from someone who is 5'4" with short arms). But let us know what you will be using and we can offer some advice to help you test things out before the event.

Mike Davis
"If a man does his best, what else is there?"  - General George S. Patton Jr

  ...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
  For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
  Shall be my brother...-Shakespeare, Henry V
 

"There's a great deal of talk about loyalty from the bottom to the top. Loyalty from the top down is even more necessary and is much less prevalent. One of the most frequently noted characteristics of great men who have remained great is loyalty to their subordinates."
- General George S. Patton, Jr

"Your body can't go where your mind hasn't been."
- Alex Arrieta 1995 NTI Winner

gr8horses2003

#2
August 04, 2011, 03:02:42 PM
Mike,
My son, Nick, will be bringing, "The Rattler", his M4gery (Bushmaster Patrolman)16in. barrel with iron sights.  It has an adjustable stock and a folding vertical grip.  This grip has helped with with his off hand position, because when it is folded against the foreguard, it is like a palm rest.     

I'm bringing "Nancy Mae", my RRA A4NM w/ 20in, barrel.  Has iron sights, but am having sight "issues".  I have a .040 rear aperture, but am having trouble with a varying sight picture because it seems too large - issue is getting the top of the sight in the center of the aperture consistently.  I have a .030 on the way...we'll see if that helps.  If it doesn't, I may scope it before the shoot - would use a 3x9x50 Horus w/ LaRue Mount.  I really would prefer to try to use irons for this.

We both use nose-to-charging-handle technique to try to get a consistent sight picture.  We are fighting with hearing protection...the muffs seem to interfere with the stocks, so we are using only MAX earplugs although we understand that both are recommended..  We're also arguing with safety glasses.  We have a bunch of different styles, but the frames interfere with the muffs and sometimes the lenses hit the hooded rear sight on mine , so I just got a different pair that we will try them. 

We plan on bringing 500 rounds each of M855.  We have been using XM193, but got a deal on the M855.  We plan on having two 20 round magazines each, but read somewhere that 4 is recommended.  Please let me know.  We also have brass catchers for each rifle. 

We have the USGI slings, purchased from Appleseed, and have been practicing to the best of our ability - having only read.  We don't have shooting coats or gloves, but plan on having elbow pads.  We also bought the Midway shooting mats.

Need to know what tools you recommend bringing.  Will have A2 sight tool to adjust the front sights, but didn't plan on bringing anything else.

So, those are the rifles we plan on bringing.

Harry


jmdavis

#3
August 04, 2011, 05:04:02 PM
That all sounds just fine. Generally the .040 aperature is a good one (and it is my choice for my service rifle). The secret to good sight alignment lies in making sure that your eye is centered behind the rear sight ie. that you keep the same head position throughout the string of fire. If you have a consistent head position, your eye will naturally try to center the front sight in the rear.

Mike
"If a man does his best, what else is there?"  - General George S. Patton Jr

  ...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
  For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
  Shall be my brother...-Shakespeare, Henry V
 

"There's a great deal of talk about loyalty from the bottom to the top. Loyalty from the top down is even more necessary and is much less prevalent. One of the most frequently noted characteristics of great men who have remained great is loyalty to their subordinates."
- General George S. Patton, Jr

"Your body can't go where your mind hasn't been."
- Alex Arrieta 1995 NTI Winner

gr8horses2003

#4
August 04, 2011, 06:17:15 PM
Mike,
Thanks.  Now, some questions about other equipment.  I looked at pictures that were taken at a previous shoot at Cavalier.  It looks as if the range is covered and the floor is course gravel.

Should we bring a carpet remnant to sit and lie on?  Would a folding table be useful to put "stuff" on? Annndddd, is there anything else that you can think of that would be useful, but is not on the list?

Harry

George Hacker

#5
August 04, 2011, 06:21:56 PM
gr8horses2003,

It is awesome to see you prepare for your upcoming Appleseed.  I wish others would be half as prepared.  In any case, you will have a great weekend!

Out of curiosity, how did you find out about the forums?  I didn't discover them until after my Appleseed experience.

- ShadowMan
Tell your Pacific Northwest facebook friends to "like" and post in the Northwest Region Project Appleseed page.

"You can't miss fast enough..."  "Aim small, miss small."

Old Dog

#6
August 04, 2011, 06:33:13 PM
Not trying to get "between" you and Mike here, just wanted to let you know that a shooting glove isn't necessary for this type of shooting.

Hearing protection?  I've used nothing but ear plugs for years with no issues (this time of the year muffs are miserable anyway).

If you find your groups move as you go from standing to sitting to prone its most likely because your eye is changing position behind the front sight.  It happens with a lot of people and they learn to make rear sight adjustments to compensate for the change in position.

Good luck, have fun, Mike (as well as the many other Virginia instructors) will certainly do what they can to help you and your son have a great weekend.  Oh yeah, water, bring lots of liquids for drinking as this time of the year it gets hot/humid around here.  If you've got portable shade, bring that, too.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

—Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

gr8horses2003

#7
August 04, 2011, 07:05:11 PM
Shadowman,
When I was looking around on the Appleseed website, I found it under Links.  I signed up and began to read.

Thanks for the encouragement.

Harry

sgtmace

#8
August 05, 2011, 04:59:55 AM
gr8horses2003,
As for other gear, there are benches on the firing line but few chairs-so a folding chair may be nice. As for tools I will have plenty for AR's if the need should arise. Sunblock, insect repelant and plenty of fluids are a must. Looking forward to meeting you folks.
sgtmace
If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget you were our countrymen.
Sam Adams

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force: Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined." -- Patrick Henry

gr8horses2003

#9
August 05, 2011, 12:47:36 PM
Thank you. My son and I are looking forward to it!

Harry

BD

#10
August 06, 2011, 10:17:29 AM
It sounds like you have all the gear you would need.
If you get a chance, try to zero  the rifles at 25 meters.
The range at Cavalier is comfortable and you should have a good weekend.
Welcome.
Up the Republic

PHenry

#11
August 06, 2011, 02:08:37 PM
gr8,
The only other item i would say u must bring is the most important one - bring an open mind and a teachable attitude. Do your level best to forgit all that u may have ever learned about shooting and employ the system that your instructors offer. If u can do that - I can guarantee that your marksmanship will improve.

Good luck and welcome to Project Appleseeds sir,
PH
Para ser Libre, un Hombre debe tener tres cosas. La Tierra, una Educacion, y un Fusil. Siempre, un Fusil!  Emiliano Zapata

Roland

#12
August 06, 2011, 05:34:45 PM
On the table- I would go ahead and bring it if it's small. It's ghreat for loading mags, etc. Just make sure it's not to big.

Roland
The doorway to freedom is framed by the muskets that stood between a vision of of liberty and absolute anarchy at a place called Concord Bridge--Charlton Heston, 1997

"Be a man of principle. Fight for what you believe in. Keep your word. Live with integrity. Be brave. Believe in something bigger than yourself. Serve your country. Teach. Mentor. Give something back to society. Lead from the front. Conquer your fears. Be a good friend. Be humble and be self-confident. Appreciate your friends and family. Be a leader and not a follower. Be valorous on the field of battle. And take responsibility for your actions. Never forget those that were killed. And never let rest those that killed them." -- Major Douglas Zembiec

jmdavis

#13
August 06, 2011, 06:03:11 PM
If you have a small table, sure bring it. But don't buy one. As you can see in the photo below there are a number of shooting benched and tables that we have to move out of the way for the shoot.  No one has ever needed to bring their own at this location.

You do want to make sure that you have water, snacks and something for lunch. The nearest store is ~15 minutes away.

"If a man does his best, what else is there?"  - General George S. Patton Jr

  ...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
  For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
  Shall be my brother...-Shakespeare, Henry V
 

"There's a great deal of talk about loyalty from the bottom to the top. Loyalty from the top down is even more necessary and is much less prevalent. One of the most frequently noted characteristics of great men who have remained great is loyalty to their subordinates."
- General George S. Patton, Jr

"Your body can't go where your mind hasn't been."
- Alex Arrieta 1995 NTI Winner

Old Dog

#14
August 06, 2011, 06:58:46 PM
A plastic storage container with lid (like you can buy at WalMar or similar stores) is great for this use (storage, travel, table and to keep thing dry if it rains).

Put your ammo/mags, etc. in it and set it behind you at the range.  With the lid on it you have a small table that keeps your ready ammo and spare magazines out of the grass/dust/dirt.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

—Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

gr8horses2003

#15
August 08, 2011, 09:52:59 PM
Thanks, everybody!  I appreciate the help and look forward to meeting you at Cavalier.

Harry and Nick Baldwin
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