Author Topic: Important Possible Safety Issue  (Read 2600 times)

Offline Unbridled Liberty

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Important Possible Safety Issue
« on: May 07, 2011, 09:42:17 PM »
From the "A Word to the Wise Dept."-
I was just made aware of an IAAR in which the SB mentioned the following incident   As far as I know, the incident did not happen at an Appleseed.

"...one of our adaptives, told us of a shooting accident involving someone shooting from a chair who shot themselves when the chair broke.  That put an end to the chair idea.  [For the record, this might be a broadcastable safety issue, because we have been using chairs in this capacity, some of which are those lightweight camp chairs held together by plastic joints.  I will never again let my shooters shoot from camp or other non-sturdy chairs.]."

The SB then went on to explain that they found a sturdy picnic table for the adaptives to shoot from.

Offline Unbridled Liberty

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Re: Important Possible Safety Issue
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2011, 11:22:51 PM »
I'm asking y'all for suggestions on how to word this safety warning for an addition to the A.AS manual.  Please let me know what you think.

Offline techres

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Re: Important Possible Safety Issue
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2011, 11:40:14 PM »
How about something like this:

"It is highly advised that shooters only be provided with supports strong enough to not be capable of collapse or being knocked over.  A potentially unstable chair or support is an extreme safety hazard for anyone holding a loaded firearm or those about them.  A sudden loss of support could create an uncontrolled and loaded transition at best, or a negligent discharge at a random direction at worst. 

This safety risk should not be underestimated and as such folding chairs, plastic chairs, or canvas seats make unsafe and unwise supports for any shooter, but especially dangerous ones for an adaptive shooter.  Avoid temptation to use what is convenient and work hard to find what is safe."
Appleseed: Bringing the Past into the Present to save our Future.

Offline AFTERMATH

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Re: Important Possible Safety Issue
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2011, 09:04:31 PM »
If we release this warning; we're going to need to suggest a highly portable solution.
I rarely work a range that has mobile tables/benches that could solve the issue.
What is a SB to do, should an AAS'er show up, with a portable light-weight chair and there is no other alternative?
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Offline Unbridled Liberty

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Re: Important Possible Safety Issue
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2011, 12:34:32 AM »
Nicely worded techres.  This is very much what I am looking for.

Aftermath- You bring up a number of important issues. 

This is one reason it is important for the adaptive(s) and the SB to at least talk before the shoot, or better yet, have the adaptive meet the SB at the shoot location before the shoot if possible.  Issues of safety, accessibility and accommodations, in that order, can then be discussed.  At that point a consult with the A.AS team could be beneficial as well.

While a quick search for "free diy portable shooting bench plans" turned up a number of designs, such as this one http://www.horstguns.com/ShootingBench.htm (not really portable obviously, but it looks like it is very safe), it can't be Appleseed's responsibility to provide such equipment.  And even if a SB was feeling especially generous and decided to provide a chair or bench, no single design is going to meet the needs of all adaptives.

Another idea is for A.AS (or others) to come up with several easily built, portable, low-cost, sturdy chair/bench designs and provide the plans/patterns to adaptives well ahead of the shoot, so they can build their own accommodation or have someone build it for them.  Such equipment would always be subject to inspection by and approval of the SB.

So, I have no good answer for your question Aftermath, but I'm hoping other team members will!

Offline techres

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Re: Important Possible Safety Issue
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2011, 12:53:31 AM »
If we release this warning; we're going to need to suggest a highly portable solution.
I rarely work a range that has mobile tables/benches that could solve the issue.
What is a SB to do, should an AAS'er show up, with a portable light-weight chair and there is no other alternative?

If nothing else, backup a pickup to the line and consider shooting from the back of it using the sides as the rest for the rifle?  Yeah, sounds nuts, but if you have no other options it is time to get creative.  The problem is getting the shooter up to it.

In any event, prior discussions fix so much.  My last adaptive shooter talked with the range owner who not only made sure to have a setup on the line to work with his wheelchair but also ran a gravel path all the way down to the line so the shooter could run down like everyone else.  Heck, he even made sure we remembered to circle up on the adaptive shooter's side of the line so he was in every part of the training.  That prior commo made all the difference in the world.

Appleseed: Bringing the Past into the Present to save our Future.

Offline AFTERMATH

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Re: Important Possible Safety Issue
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2011, 09:18:37 PM »
S'pose it's just another reason a SB must be able to improvise and adapt.
"We intend to produce men who are able to light a fire for Liberty in men's minds, and make them the finest rifle marksmanship Instructors on the planet." - Son of Martha

"Tyrants rise and fall, but tyranny lasts forever." -Me

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Offline ssgnod

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Re: Important Possible Safety Issue
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2012, 10:52:49 PM »
The state coordinator here in NE carries a plastic folding table in his truck for the AS's.  They usually will use camp chairs (I did).  I will now donate a couple of regular folding chairs to the cause for use here.  I'm always glad to help my fellow disabled vets and any others wanting to shoot.

Offline Transform

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Re: Important Possible Safety Issue
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2012, 05:16:14 PM »
This discussion, and the http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=32496.0 portable bench thread, offer some good ideas that got me thinking. Also, I've been thinking about AS / range relations in this context.
 
 For obvious safety reasons, any solution must be sturdy enough not to collapse, not even under the falling weight of a collapsed shooter, which means it will probably be relatively heavy. So while building a portable bench is probably the very BEST solution, another possible option might be to donate a picnic bench to our ranges, which we can use during AS shoots, and the range members can use the rest of the time.
 
 Advantages:
  - saves gas, instead of hauling the weight of a bench around
  - benefits the range, and the donation helps build goodwill
  - lets us "advertise" year-round, if we neatly engrave "Project Appleseed" into the bench top
  - relatively inexpensive and long-lasting
  - in kit form, it doesn't require the woodworking skills necessary to build a strong portable bench
 
 Disadvantages:
  - cost to purchase a bench kit
  - can only be used at one range
  - standard size picnic tables may be too long to fit into the shooting bays at covered ranges
  - the larger size also stretches out the line a bit
 
 Just another option to consider, as no single solution will fit all ranges, situations, or adaptive needs.


Offline TaosGlock

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Re: Important Possible Safety Issue
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2012, 12:25:46 AM »
Folding tables and even folding workbenches (http://www.harborfreight.com/folding-clamping-workbench-with-movable-pegs-47844.html) work great.
Add a piece of wood in between the fixed slats and it's a mini bench. Weight can be added on the legs with a slat of wood. It can be turned long or short way.
Different shooters needs may dictate bench or table. We bring both.
5 gallon buckets come in tall and regular size and you can buy a seat accessory top like this: http://www.amazon.com/Encore-Plastics-82124-Gallon-Bucket/dp/B000KKPBQ8
Fill it with dirt and rocks and it is bombproof sturdy...well almost.

I am sure there are certain adaptive shooters that this won't work with, but this is a place to start and has served us before.

Mini  size wooden picnic type bench seats work fine too. Our range at NRAWC has them-very sturdy.

The cheezy cloth folding chairs can be difficult to get in to and especially out of for many adaptive shooters-especially if the issue is a weight problem.

Also depending on the adaptive shooter's abilities, we have a dedicated instructor watch when ever possible.
This is the most important thing IMHO.
Safety always!
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Offline Unbridled Liberty

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Re: Important Possible Safety Issue
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2012, 11:02:23 PM »
Here is a picture of one of our shooters in a power chair.  The camping table was only for "grounding" his rifle when not shooting.  He shot all strings without supports or rests of any kind.

UL