AR build?

[txpirate]

Building the lower portion of the AR is fun and easy. I did it in about 30 minutes with a hammer, screwdriver, and an old dart (used as a punch). There is a pretty good 2-part video on youtube that details how to do the whole thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iA_Vkb2UB1w

[AFTERMATH]

Blackthorne is Hesse/Vulcan

I've heard those names before.   Thanks for the heads-up.
I must say I did have my suspicions, but I couldn't find the link.
M1A4ME; I hope you can get that rifle servicable, you may want to install a bayonet lug.

The biggest reason I would like to build; as opposed to buy; is that it's a good way to get to
know your rifle, inside and out.

Any other recomendations or suggestions would be much appreciated, thank you.

Aftermath

[wcmartin1]

http://www.whiteoakprecision.com/uppers-service.htm

[wildman]

I now own two "black rifles." One is an RRA NM and preforms as expected. Shooting 75gr HPBT I shot my highest score ever at my last HP match.

The second is a work still in progress. The lower unit is an LRB receiver with a RRA NM trigger. The upper is a flat top with a 16" HB 1/9 twist. Here is where I ran into problems. I found that even with the HB using a sling caused the groups to vertically sting. I test the rifle on two different occasions in the prone supported position. I talked about the problem with a friend that shoots ARs in the Perry matches and he agreed that it doesn't matter how heavy the barrel is that will be the result if a free float tube is not used. This was also confirmed by a gunsmith who works on Ars exclusively. So I am having a free float installed and will have back in a few days. I chose not to do it myself 'cause I didn't want to buy the tools to do one rifle.

Some of you may take exception to my experience but I can only tell you what happened to me.

[Old Dog]

I have the front sling swivel mounted to the free float tube on the vARmint rifle.

The CAR has not front sling swivel, just a vertical grip mounted to the handguard ( Sgt. Cap  )

The S&W AR has the front sling swivel mounted to the barrel but I haven't shot it enough to say one way or the other.

[colycat]

My son really wants to get an AR.  Does it make sense to build it yourself, or buy one from a reputable company? 

Colycat

The reason I ask the question, is he not into building rifles.  He wants something that will chamber a round every time, and be able to group to battle rifle standards.

I have been to a few Appleseeds, and I see a lot of AR's that do not work.  Most often they are built from parts.  I have never seen a M1 not work and only 1 M1A that had problems.

If he were to buy parts and things did not work out as expected(see M1forme's post) who would he call and complain.  Seems to me if you buy a rifle from, say Bushmaster, and it does not perform,  there is some recourse.  I don't know much about AR's.

Thanks for your help, Guys

Coly

[wildman]

Buying a complete rifle sounds like a reasonable idea.

[Nickle]

I've built 2, one of them I rebuilt again later.

Only problems I've had was the choice I made for a detachable carry handle on the last build. It was too tall, and I've either got to replace ot, or get a taller front sight. Replace is the likely route, due to personal preference.

If you use new quality parts, it is not likely to be a problem.

If you use junky parts, well, "garbage in, garbage out". The same folks that do cheap builds, tend to get cheap when it's time to buy ammo, too.

All that being said, you can't go wrong with a Bushmaster.

[txpirate]

To me, building it teaches you an intimate knowlege of the rifle. If you can understand how it works, internally, you can use it better, and diagnose problems better. Granted this is coming from an engineer, so I might have a different mindset than others.
Seriously, did you look at those videos I linked to above? It is pretty easy to assemble a lower. Uppers are more easily purchased due to the fact that it can ship directly to you. I might recommend buying a complete upper, instead of assembling an upper, because the upper does require a special tool.

[PHenry]

Prior to getting anything - I would recommend a little light reading.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showpage?saleitemid=240052&utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=free&utm_campaign=10614

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showpage?saleitemid=559952&utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=free&utm_campaign=10614

Then, get all of the correct tools, including the correct vise blocks for the style of AR you intend to build - Bushmaster sells it all and is all good quality.

Just a thought.

[Old Dog]

The only special tool I (had but couldn't find) for the lower was the wrench to install/tighten the nut on the collapsable stock/buffer tube to the lower receiver.  Being both practical and impatient I hand tightened it then used a punch and hammer to finish tightening it.  I know which of the little slots in the nut has a flat spot in it but the camo job completely "camoflaged" it.  My pocket knife works great for that nasty little spring and detent in the frame for the front take down pin.

I've never "built" an upper.  As stated above.  They'll internet/phone call/ship those right to your front door and the only question asked is how you want to pay for it.

Did have some issues on my second build.  The bolt catch detent was large enough, or the hole was small enough that the detent hung up in the hole.  I had to get a drill bit and slowly drill (at the right spot) a hole in the frame above the rear of the detent to get it to "pop" back out.  A little work with a round file around the wall of the hole cured the sticking problem and everything went back together and works great.

Improvise, adapt, overcome.  It's not just for Marines.

The words above about the best way to learn the parts and their relationship to each other is buy building is true.  You lay all those little pieces out side by side, you get the lower in your hand and your start trying parts (this pertains to the springs and detents more than anything else) and you put it together.  If you get the wrong spring, or wrong detent in the wrong place it won't work right.

It sure beats putting a puzzle together.

I wish building M1A's was as easy and as cheap.  I'd have a couple more of those.

Two of my M1's (H&R) were bought as barreled receivers from the CMP.  The parts were bought off the internet and at gunshows here and there and put together by me.  I bought H&R parts and so have H&R M1's.  The only not so nice parts on them are the stocks.  No way I can justify (did I mention how cheap I am??) spending $300 or more on a nice looking H&R stock so I bought some well used ones and refinished them without taking all the gouges and nicks out so as to preserve some of the character and the inspector's marks on the stock.

Guns are Fun.  Yep, you heard it here.

[Grunt Medic]

Reliability was my biggest concern, as well - I went with a Fulton Armory complete lower for that reason.  I'm glad I ordered it when I did - just visited their site and I see their prices on complete lowers have increased 30% in the last 3 months.  One of the biggest selling points for me was that my lower included a trigger job and assembly by professionals - for a total cost of about $80- over parts alone.  I topped it with a Velocity Arms dedicated .22 upper and an ersatz Aimpont M3 - looking forward to February's Appleseed in Davilla - alas, January's dates conflict with drill.

[AFTERMATH]

Unfortunately I waited too long, now not only have prices shot up, I can't seem to find anybody that has anything in stock.
Anybody got some hot tips.?

[mtmisfit]

use a Rock River Arms lower parts kit if you can.  I've used both the RRA and DPMS LPK's and the pins in the RRA kit are nicer.  The DPMS pins fit REAL tight, as in once you get them started you are committed. Had I known in advance I would have dressed them down with some sandpaper and a drill.

The DPMS disconnector also required a lot of fitting to work properly, RRA was a drop in. Both LPK's will work, I just like the RRA kit better. Enough that I'm willing to spend the extra $10 to get it.

[Redwolf]

 Just doing some number crunching, buying an upper or build. Is the point to build for the fun or to save money? If it is to save money, I am defiantly not looking in the right places. I have been looking for a light 308 upper.

[Old Dog]

Redwolf, the point for me was to get exactly what I wanted, not what was available.  When the thread was started AR parts were both cheaper and more plentiful.

[FiremanBill]

Just doing some number crunching, buying an upper or build. Is the point to build for the fun or to save money? If it is to save money, I am defiantly not looking in the right places. I have been looking for a light 308 upper.

Redwolf -

MY objective is to get acquainted with the inner workings of the black rifle.  Using online materials and books (Clint McKee?) available from CMP to get started on my first build.  Having scanned prices (SGN is good source for price info) for some time, I know I won't save $$ by building my own, but I will know more about its innards.  (Just as I recently learned the inner workings of my 10/22 LTR.)

I have seen the cautions about the fragile nature of the ears on the lower.  Go slowly, and polish pins for a nice press (not force) fit, if necessary.  You don't want to use excessive force here. 


FB

[Redwolf]

That sounds like as good a reason to me. I might be behind the times but do we have the numbers to look for discounts or group buys.  I have been looking to start a carbine upper. 16" 308 carbine Barrel and upper receiver.

[FiremanBill]

MY objective is to get acquainted with the inner workings of the black rifle. 

That sounds like as good a reason to me. I might be behind the times but do we have the numbers to look for discounts or group buys.  I have been looking to start a carbine upper. 16" 308 carbine Barrel and upper receiver.

Redwolf,

I'd be interested in a group buy.   Personally looking for .223/5/56 upper with heavy 20" min. barrel.  Noted that several SGN advertisers offer complete uppers.  With respect to lowers, am willing to work my way through installing a kit on my stripped lower.

If you want to kick off a group buy effort, maybe I can help.  I have seen info here and there on this site about pros and cons of various component suppliers.  We can probably do a site search and find appropriate threads...  (Or we can just ask, and I'm sure the advice will come flowing in.)

Let's go!  Sooner we can start, the sooner you and I can get together and shoot!

FiremanBill

[Kodo2003]

Im in if you can find any parts in stock and can get a deal.

Kodo2003

[Grunt Medic]

Good luck on this - prices on parts by the manufacturers with good reputations have gone through the ceiling, in anticipation of a new Assault Rifle Ban, as stated in the Democratic Part Platform.  My plan is to buy several assembled lowers with this paycheck and next, and complete them with uppers as time allows.  I also plan to buy an AR-10 lower with the same intent.  YMMMV.

Although the last assault rifle ban stated that rifles must be complete by the date of enactment of the ban, I'm willing to take my chances that history will repeat itself.  In fact, I expect that things will swing toward us after awhile - though we may have to endure another round of bans first.  Keep the Faith! 

[AFTERMATH]

The chances of getting someone to commit to a group by will be slim, as parts are flying off the shelfs faster than they can stock them. 
There's no incentive to provide any discount.
But, if it happens, let me know.

[Southern Grey]

If one wanted to build an inexpensive, but serviceable .308 version AR is there any knowledge base as to where to purchase and what to buy?

[Old Dog]

I've never considered the AR in .308 caliber.  I'll bet if you go to AR15.com there's a lot of info on rifles and parts in that caliber.

Good luck with your search.

[FiremanBill]

Anyone have any thoughts, strong feelings about Armalite AR-15 components, and assemblies?  Am considering them along with Rock River and Bushmaster.

How about Model 1 Sales?  Have been scanning their SGN ads, prices look pretty good on parts too.  Any experience with them?

FiremanBill

[Old Dog]

I like the Rock River match triggers, they are just awesome.

[CaptG]

If you're looking at 308/7.62 AR's a few things to check:

Mags can be pricy and do not neccesarily interchange between mfgr's (DPMS and Stoner SR25 are the same but don't fit anything else). I've been told that Olympic uses FN mags but don't know this for a fact. Not sure if Armalite fits anything else.

My DPMS AP4 is reliable and accurate, but has been finicky with some 7.62 ammo. It's got a tight 308 chamber and won't reliably feed Privi. All other stuff i've tried has been ok.

As noted on other posts, right now all AR parts can be scarce - 308 even more so. I've been waiting over a month for some misc spare parts from DPMS.

If you get a complete rifle, you can always take it apart & put it back together a few times to see how it works.

Hope this helps
G

[EEL]

Rock River 308 uses a FAL mag.  I believe it will accept both metric and inch mags.  They are under $10 and they are everywhere.  Rock river makes good stuff.  Haven't seen anything bad about their stuff.  I concur on their match trigger 
EEL

[Kodo2003]

If there is still anyone looking for AR-15 lowers http://www.essentialarms.com/ has them in stock and to your FFL in 7-10 days. I called 01/13/09 to get the price and info. They are $100 for the standard lower and $105 for the tuff coat baked on finish. It is hard to get through on the phone be persistent. I have their lowers they are great. There are many positive threads on AR15.com also.

Also http://www.sherluk.com/ has all the other parts in stock at good prices. I have 2 of their kits both fit well and seem to be of good quality and shoot good tight groups. For Christmas I received a new upper and there was a problem with it. I called them and was told to send it back and it would be replaced and back to me in a week. They seem to have good customer service. They also do a lot of gun shows in NY and Ohio that I know of. And if you do not see a kit that you want call then and ask. They will work with you.

Kodo

[mtmisfit]

Rock River 308 uses a FAL mag.  I believe it will accept both metric and inch mags.  They are under $10 and they are everywhere.  Rock river makes good stuff.  Haven't seen anything bad about their stuff.  I concur on their match trigger 
EEL

Rock River is having a lot of issues with that FAL mag, that is part of the reason for the looooooonnnnngggg delivery time of their .308. They're still working on orders placed in 2007.

Don't get me wrong I love Rock River's stuff, have their AR's & 1911's, just don't get a good feeling about their 308. Rather than wait I picked up a PTR-91, mags are $2 each for it.