Brainstorming Required: Sierra Vista Target Stands

[lysander6]

All,

  We currently have 4x shoots annually programmed for the Sierra Vista, AZ range in perpetuity.  I would like to take the range to the next level by making more permanent the target stands at 25 and 100m on the range.  We presently have to drive T-Posts and string wire for every event.

  While we can probably never have the exquisite facilities that Buckeye has, we would certainly like to emulate the idea of either permanent holes in the ground or robust targets stands that are portable but can stand on their own under fire.  The main problem is colichi deposits, a diamond hard rock that is very resistant to digging.

  I am all ears for suggestions and ideas.  I will be attending a range meeting next Tuesday evening here and would like to present some ideas.

Bill

[azmule]

Admittedly the ground is a whole lot softer there, but we set up a "regularly temporary" range in Illinois once with foot-long sections of conduit, flattened and sharpened on the bottom end, driven in nearly flush to provide sockets to stand rebar posts into when needed.

It's also not a huge expense to rent a power auger for the day, especially if it's split up by all of us who would otherwise have to hammer and dig in the sun all day.

[eaglescouter]

Do it once and be done with it.  Rent an appropriate tool for the job.  Something like a commercial grade jackhammer and power plant, a 30 lb model should be sufficient with the correct bits.  Your local rental yard can tell you exactly what is required for your soil/rock types.

[TruTenacity]

Contact .06en.  He's made stands for Yakima.  They are portable and work well.  They are similar to what we use in CdA.  If the range has a storage unit they might be willing to allow you to store the stands/material at the range; that's what we do in Cda. 

[AZbinary]

What few ideas I had have been suggested, just let me know how I can help when the day arrives.

AZB

[sparks1]

Renting a core drill may be the way to go. We use them in construction to open holes in concrete floors for conduit to pass through. OR check with local construction co.'s and see if they will rent theirs. Most have diamond bits...just need water while drilling .( they have a water tank with pump like a sprayer to run water thru the bit.) Then put PVC pipe into holes for your target stands. ADD>>>>> after core drilling you would need to se a hammer drill to bust out the core. FYI

alot of work, but better than digging and it's done right the first time.

[lysander6]

Great ideas and thanks for the input...

[Two Wolves]

We have a similar problem at our site. This year we had four shoots and each time we drove t-posts and then removed them. Our ground is a mix of rock and limestone calichi. Now we have six shoots scheduled for 2011. So here's what I've come up with. I'm going to put 10" long pipes in the ground on 92" centers. The pipe is 2" o.d. ---1 1/2 i.d. This is galvanized water pipe. Easy to cut with a cut off saw. As for as installing the pipe in the ground, I have a generator and a hammer drill. Maybe you would be lucky enough to find one of your participants who is a contractor that has one you could borrow or better yet could help you . My hammer drill will use up to a 1" bit but I find it better in this situation to use  a 1/2 in bit, 12in long and drill a bunch of holes and just clean it out. Doesn't have to be perfect because I want to have to drive the pipes with a slegehammer somewhat so they're firm. You know those little bumps on the t-posts? You have to grind them down some, but just the ones where the posts go into the pipe. Now you have your pipes in the ground and your t-posts up. I'm going to make some sort-of tabs ( probably out of washers and weld them to the t-posts so that they hold the wire without having to tie it to each post. The ends of the top wire will be made so as to hook on to a ratchet strap On each side to get it taught. Probably 2 feet away from the target boards. My desire is to make this a no brainer. I'll also make up some flush caps to keep dirt out of the pipe when not in use. We use a black plastic type board for our backer boards. They are 4x8. The 92" centers I mentioned at the begining, will give you a 2" overlap on each joint. This is how we do it now and it works good for us. Hope this is helpful. Any ?s. ~Two Wolves~

[Mark Davis]

I have some temporay target backers made from  3 foot long 4x4 lumber and OSB (plywood). Each 4x4 has a slot chainsawed across the width about half the thickness of the wood. Two of those about seven feet apart hold up a 2x8 piece of OSB.
Materials like that are easy for me to scrounge, Your results probably will be diffrent.
Never saw a sawmill anywhere down there when visiting a couple weeks ago.

[lysander6]

Two Wolves,

  That is an outstanding idea because the T-Posts are rather easy to assemble with the wire for the Coraplast target backers we use.  Dedicated pilot holes already in the ground would make set-up much quicker.  I could even keep those clean-out plugs in them when not in use.  I am going to bird-dog Lowe's today to check on equipment.

  Clodhopper offers a possibility for our 100m shooting distance for the KD targets. 

[Spanner]

I'm going to make some sort-of tabs ( probably out of washers and weld them to the t-posts so that they hold the wire without having to tie it to each post. The ends of the top wire will be made so as to hook on to a ratchet strap On each side to get it taught. Probably 2 feet away from the target boards.

Earlier this year I switched from wire to polytape (electric fence stuff that you can get from Tractor Supply Co.).  It spools out fast, you don't have to cut it if you go across the top and then across the bottom of the posts, it can be made to stay snug (not tight) and you can spool it up and use it over and over.  If you hang the backers behind it, it tends to not get shot because it is visible from the firing line and the shooters are conscious of it.  I don't think mine has even been shot, that I've noticed.  Mine is 1" wide (which was the cheapest width above 0.5" when I bought it).

EDIT: I shouldn't have tried to be cute.  You can make it very tight, which helps with the wind.

[BeSwift]

If the ground is that hard, here's a few thoughts..

1) Railroad ties with PVC tubes mounted on the rear, to hold a target frame?
2) Our club has wooden "sleds" for lack of a better term, that hold the target frames in place and are portable. Not really convenient, but if they can stay at the facility, it's usually not a big deal.

I can provide detailed target STAND plans/specs if you need them, but they are based on being mounted in PVC or sleds...  BeSwift

[AZOpie]

If you are looking for a wire line, Two Wolves looks like he has the best idea so far. I would either drive the pipe in a preconditioned hole (made by jackhammer or large hammer drill), or better yet, set in concrete. You could use a jh/hd to soften the ground then use a post hole digger to scoop it out, then set the pipe in quickcrete. If you use concrete, you could then screw a cap on the pipe to keep the dirt out between shoots - just make sure it protrudes above the ground far enough. If to want wooden frames, you could use the same method to set the rectangular steel, but then you need to build the frames and store them between shoots. Storage is smaller with the t-posts and wire, and the expendables are probably cheaper as well.

I happen to know someone with a thunderbolt hammer drill to make holes - he even has a generator to porta-power it....

Just my 2 cents...

[Two Wolves]

You can make a flush cover by taking a short, 4-5" piece of t-post and welding it to a flat cover for a square electrical box. The kind you set in the wall when building a house. It's cheap & easy. This way if you have to mow you won't hit it or trip over it. ~Two Wolves~

[AZOpie]

Mow? That would indicate grass grows 

I do like the idea though!

I also happen to know a guy with a cutoff saw and welder....

You can make a flush cover by taking a short, 4-5" piece of t-post and welding it to a flat cover for a square electrical box. The kind you set in the wall when building a house. It's cheap & easy. This way if you have to mow you won't hit it or trip over it. ~Two Wolves~

[AZOpie]

Maybe 30 years + ago up in the Flagstaff area. Ain't no trees down in S.V. worth putting through a sawmill.

AZO

Never saw a sawmill anywhere down there when visiting a couple weeks ago.

[NEWGUY556]

I have a Roto Hammer and a generator. I dont have a big bit though and my generator is a Pain to start.
I would be happy to loan it out, just need to work out how to get it to you.

[CSHR]

I decided to 'make my own' and came up with a modification of several others I'd seen. These are a pain to build at first since I had to design, build and didn't have help...thus each stand was a custom build. Now that I have a system the next few are easy. They went up easy and came down easy. Easy to carry since the 'biggest piece' is 1x3x8', although a bunch are used. I have a Forester and had no problem with carrying all the pieces for five set ups, this makes 4 targets per set up. No real problems in the wind or rain either.

1. I use a heavy metal stake....what contractors use to frame up for a foundation pour....3' long with holes in them for screws to go through. These are sledge hammered into all kinds of soil. When assembling be sure to place the bolt for the lower rail through the hole in the wood vertical prior to placing the vertical next to the metal stake and screwing a drywall screw through it into the wood (it'll cover up the hole and you'll have to re-do it).

2.I used a 1x3x8', cut in half for 2 pieces, vertical at each end. An 8' one for the 'top rail' and a 1x2x8' for the bottom rail.

3. I used a 1x3x3 block to form a place to anchor a metal strip. this goes under the top horizontal to rest it on. it also allows a 1/4'' bolt to go through to fasten. looks like a 'u' from the side.
one of these goes at the top end of each vertical piece of wood.

4. I use two zip ties bound together at each corner to suspend the targets backers from each of the rails.

5. When placing the holes for the lower rail be sure to put one side lower than the other....this allows the 1x2 to be used like a lever and thus tighten the zip ties.

6. Target backers are corplast with a hole punch used to punch each corner for the zip tie.

If you want a better picture or more info pm me and I'll take some more close ups.

Go to this AAR and look at them in the distance:  http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=19456.0

CSHR/michael