Cancelled my reservation for the Rocky Creek Ranch RBC

[hornblower]

I had been looking forward to attending the RBC.
Back in September I started the thread "Rifleman's Boot Camp - How many would be interested"
From the beginning of the Rocky Creek announcement, the information was very confusing.
I paid my $200 deposit and requested a room in "The Lodge" at $75 per night, and the meal plan at $30 per day.
There were no pictures of the ranch, the Lodge, or any of the rooms.
Yesterday, I received a request from the owner of the ranch for an up front payment of $760.
I replied that I would pay when I was there, by credit card.
Furthermore, I stated that this was the customary way to pay for lodging.
I received the below attached response.

"David,

I have gone to considerable lengths to explain to you that you will be staying in a private home that is NOT an establishment open to the general public. I frankly don't give a Sh*t what is customary. You can come or not. But at this point I think it best you not given you have been nothing but distrustful and difficult since I voluntarily elected to help the Appleseed Project by hosting it at great effort, time and expense on my part. I apologize if my bluntness offends you, however, we've been part of this land and this community for 6 generations and I frankly don't wish to serve folks that aren't as accommodating in return as we are to them.  You have my invoice. Pay it and show for the event, or notify me you are not coming, but this is my final statement to you.  

I hope you will have a little faith that people associated with Appleseed are solid folk and are patriots that look out for one another."

There was no * in the sh word.
He confuses me with someone else.  He never spoke to me at any length and never discussed that this was a private home.
He speaks of trust in Appleseed but wants his money upfront for lodging and meals unseen, unknown and undelivered.
If asking questions about a $760 expenditure is being distrustful and difficult, then I am indeed guilty.
I have been to two Appleseeds, recruited many others to go, contributed money in support of the RWVA, etc.
I really wanted this and have anxiously awaited the time when it would be held.
I have cancelled my reservation.  I'll wait until we hold one someplace where civility is more in evidence.

[POP]

To All:
When posting to all threads on the RWVA Forum, please consider CPR (Civility, Politeness, and, Respect), qualities which I find in all Appleseeders, and post accordingly.  We are now in the midst of Christmas Season, a time of year when we should perhaps be even more mindful of life's stresses than usual. 

hornblower:
If you would like to visit with me about your experience perhaps I can help.  PM Inbound.

Thank all of you for your consideration of CPR.  Let's stay on Mission.

POP

[hornblower]

That is what I would expect, but it is not what I received

[flnativegal]

I believe Appleseed leaders should seriously consider "Damage control"... obviously, there is an "anger issue" with Chris and I would be cautious when adding firearms. In this day of skepticism regarding firearms...anyone who is so quick to lash out at another person, such as Chris did with Hornblower, raises the question of "what else is he capable of should someone upset him"? His eagerness to claim to be part of Appleseed sheds a dim light to all of us involved with Appleseed, when he in fact, is guilty of action innappropriate of a professional.
I attended my first AS as guest of Hornblower whom I met through shooting programs. I've found him to be easy to get along with and a very honest and reputable gentleman. I consider it a true privilege to call him "my friend". I've witnessed first hand his sincere appreciation of Appleseed and he was extremely supportive of a boot camp, to the extent he reached out to me and our colleagues soliciting participation. I've enjoyed his eagerness to par ticpate in this camp as he's expressed his excitement for months. I am sad to see the quick anger of one person's intolerance would ruin this for him. More so, I caution Appleseed leaders as to how serious one person's actions can be to damage and destroy the positive efforts of many.

"CPR" is something to be mindful of always, however, factual events that occur when abusive in nature by someone in an influential capacity with Appleseed must be addressed seriously and our true members and supporters, such as Hornblower, should be appreciated, protected, and supported without hesitation even when the abusive party may own land which we desire.
Our forefathers did not fall prey to those with money, wealth, fame, or favor.... but stood for what is right, and true, and our freedom to be treated fairly.
I will say this to Chris; you have missed out on meeting and knowing someone honorable, and with heritage worthy of being honored. A gentleman who served this country and worked to raise his family here of substance without ignorance but with strength , pride, and influence. Perhaps  patience is far better than unleashing ones anger.

[sear]

I was struck (not in a positive way) by the fact that Hornblower's post relating his poor experience was followed by a lecture about CPR, as if the lack of civility was on his part.

[shaftoe]

I was struck (not in a positive way) by the fact that Hornblower's post relating his poor experience was followed by a lecture about CPR, as if the lack of civility was on his part.

Agreed.

I'll chalk it up to the fact that the Internet is a poor medium for communication.  Misunderstandings abound.  I see nothing inflammatory in Hornblower's complaints (other than from people he is quoting).  One must never feel pushed to silence when one needs to speak one's mind.

Part of CPR is about asking oneself "could this post be written with a different intent than the one I'm reading into it?"  I apply this idea to Pop and easily recognize him as a gentleman.  I have much more difficulty applying that to the email Hornblower received.

I hope the situation is resolved quickly, professionally, and with satisfaction.

[POP]

I'll chalk it up to the fact that the Internet is a poor medium for communication.  Misunderstandings abound.  ... 

Part of CPR is about asking oneself "could this post be written with a different intent than the one I'm reading into it?"  I apply this idea to Pop and easily recognize him as a gentleman.  I have much more difficulty applying that to the email Hornblower received.

I hope the situation is resolved quickly, professionally, and with satisfaction.

shaftoe, you have it pegged.  When a communique concerns one's feelings/emotions the internet is certainly a poor medium for communication.  Body language and voice inflection simply cannot adequately be expressed over this "confounded machine."  Our "modicons" help some    but, they really can't replace a personal phone call or visit.  Guess that's why I like Appleseed events ... they afford me an opportunity to visit personally with folks.  The Waterman 300 was a great example.  I eyeballed and spoke with folks there I otherwise would never have had the good fortune to meet and become friends with.

And, shaftoe, your other wisdom "could this post be written with a different intent than the one I'm reading into it?" is certainly well within the Rifleman's Standard of 4MOA.  Thanks for bringing that to our attention.  I have had conversations with both of the two protagonists in this thread and, from these more personal discussions I believe they are both genuine and care as do we all about baling the USS America.  So, yes, they could have written their posts differently, and, would now, if they could.  In time I expect this to blend into our Appleseed fabric as we focus on the future of Appleseed, and of our country, moving forward with CPR in mind with all our dealings. 

Thanks for your post.  Merry Christmas to all. 
See you on the trail.

POP

[flnativegal]

There will always be opinions regarding incidents. It is difficult to determine what causes a person to "lash out"... it also is a suprise to me when someone does, when not provoked. True it's easier to see or speak to someone in person, but keep in mind... Hornblower has never met Chris nor has he ever had the opportunity to deal with him in person prior to being emailed.
However... I am amazed that Hornblower has now been BANNED FROM POSTING ANYTHING on our forum and he has been banned from sending any type of personal messages to anyone!Seems he is being disciplined for relating "what happened to him".  He said nothing untrue about anyone but simply copied and posted the actual email.

Please reinstate his rights to post.....I'm missing the logic behind these actions.  If I was to slap a law enforcement officer... I would be arrested... the administration would not reprimand the LEO!

[sear]

That's a line in the sand for me.

I'll be watching to see if it stands.

[shaftoe]

However... I am amazed that Hornblower has now been BANNED FROM POSTING ANYTHING on our forum and he has been banned from sending any type of personal messages to anyone!

Really?  Is it possible to tell from status on the forum?  I'm not terribly familiar with the forum interface.  Or are you talking with him (obviously outside of the forum)? 

I had gotten the impression that things were being resolved.  If the ban is accurate, maybe someone more involved in this incident will shed some light to keep idle speculation in check.  It's an unfortunate reality that people usually assume the worst, even when it is of some of the best people you'll ever meet.

[techres]

Guys, part of CPR is calming down.  Hornblower had concerns and posted on the forum multiple times.  His initial threads were moved in order to take this privately aside and deal with it.  However he opened up additional threads and modified old ones and in the process changed some of the content of the complaint which was a public process that mods were trying to take private to work it out.

Did the response he got from the host of the RBC lack CPR, yes.  Did he have every right to be upset, yes.  Did he bring it here when he felt redress was needed, absolutely.  Did he work with the mods & pop to work things out quietly and less publicly, no.  Did he keep going when asked to slow it down, yeah.

As a result, and in order to keep the content of his posts from changing again, his ability to post and modify were suspended for 72 hours while we worked things out.  It was done in order to get the facts, with out change, and to work things out without screaming thread spirals as has happened before.  This is what is going on now.

The temp ban was used in order to control a spiraling situation, not as a punitive function.  I was not the one who used those powers, but I watched it happen and understand the basics of what took place.

The situation is being investigated and resolved, and without the usual internet flamewar that can only make situations worse and not better.

Please pause this and we will get things squared away.  

[sear]

Whoever "used those powers" without explanation actually contributed to the possibility of things spiralling out of control.

Thank you for stepping in to fix that.

[techres]

Whoever "used those powers" without explanation actually contributed to the possibility of things spiralling out of control.

Thank you for stepping in to fix that.

Yes and no.  Again, not everything is helped by being public at the same time that an absence of information can make people skittish.  Both are true and both are like walking on a tightrope.

Add to that the fact that for a long time everyone at every level has be very resistant to using moderation powers and so as a forum we are not used to it.  As we move into CPR both in our hearts and in our threads, it will be important that everyone understand that the use of mod powers is going to be done to get us back to work, to solutions, and to the mission and away from ugly threadjacks filled with flame and pain.

So, please be patient.  We will be doing our best to help and not hurt.  And that is all anyone asks of any of our Appleseed family.

[techres]

This situation is over and as such I am locking this thread.  The RBC host offered a personal apology which was not accepted and continuing conversation will not bear fruit.  As a result, this situation is now done.  Any further discussion of it can happen privately if needs be but we are now done publicly.

I would ask that a new thread NOT be opened on this topic.

Thank you,
Techres