Got a Mosin this weekend....

[Heimdhal]

.....so now we can help new shooters learn the art of "overcoming the 'flinch'".  

I would like to take it upon myself to volunteer to be placed in the midst of a few .22 shooters and send out a couple zingers of 7.62x54r.  Maybe we can get a 30-06 in there as well.  Really get the percussion section going.




Ill also be in Tampa for the next week starting thursday, if anyone would like to meet up, say high and make a few things go "bang".  I dont really know any ranges near tampa other than Myakka, and thats not exactly "near".

[4bfox]

Just curious.....did you get the 91/30 "Punisher" or the M44 "Flamethrower" model? I have both, never have measured the decibel level when a round goes downrange, but the flame shooting from the muzzle of the M44 is most impressive, especially around dusk!

If those around you didn't have a flinch before, they sure will after you fire a couple rounds with either one....

[Heimdhal]

Just curious.....did you get the 91/30 "Punisher" or the M44 "Flamethrower" model? I have both, never have measured the decibel level when a round goes downrange, but the flame shooting from the muzzle of the M44 is most impressive, especially around dusk!

If those around you didn't have a flinch before, they sure will after you fire a couple rounds with either one....

I got a 91/30.  Stamped 1942, Izhevsk factory.  I havent had a chacne to shoot it yet.  Its my first Mosin, got it for an OK price (100$ OTD) from a great dad/son/daughter team that I really like, so I was ok paying a little more despite it not having the goodies (sling, bayo, etc).

I was gonna pick up an m44 from a friend a month or so ago, but the deal didnt work out. From what I've heard though, Im glad I have the 91/30.  I hear those carbines have an even beastier kick.

Ive seen vids of the "fireballs of doom" though.  using hand loads can help with that, since you can use faster burning powders that will burn up in the barrel instead of burning while out of the barrel.  Will help with velocity spikes/inconcistencies as well.

Now I have the great privilage of refinishing the beat up stock!  The stock looks like it was used on every nagant in the entire war, lol.

[Heimdhal]

[4bfox]

I have rifles that are better looking, faster firing, and cost a lot more than the Mosin, but for a reliable, hard-hitting and accurate rifle for $100 (or less), it can't be beat. And if you run out of ammo, they make a great club! Or a pig-sticker, with that wicked bayonet...

Anywho, enjoy the rifle. There are some tips you can pick up on the web to lighten the atrocious trigger pull, and civilize it to some extent. One of my goals in life is to qualify with the M44....haven't got there yet, but I will!

[ksuguy]

I've been meaning to put my scout mount and a scope on mine.   The iron sights are already so far off that I can't get it on the paper.  I figure I might as well just put some optics on the thing.   I've already got the mount and scope, just haven't got around to it.   

[Heimdhal]

I have rifles that are better looking, faster firing, and cost a lot more than the Mosin, but for a reliable, hard-hitting and accurate rifle for $100 (or less), it can't be beat. And if you run out of ammo, they make a great club! Or a pig-sticker, with that wicked bayonet...

Anywho, enjoy the rifle. There are some tips you can pick up on the web to lighten the atrocious trigger pull, and civilize it to some extent. One of my goals in life is to qualify with the M44....haven't got there yet, but I will!

haha, I hear ya man.  I figure for 100 bucks, everyone should have at least 1 mosin, ya know.  Sure, I've got more expensive guns that will likley get more range time, but theres just something about a mosin. I wouldnt mind getting a mauser next! !


Ive done a LITTLE work to it.  It looks like whoever had it before me tried to do some as well.  No trigger work, but polished up the locking lugs and some of the the bolt surfaces and gave the chamber and action a good scrubbing.  Its smoother than it was, but its still a mosin and they take a little man-handling no matter what ya do.

I certainly wouldnt mind trying to qual with it some time though.  Getting that timing down is key, I dont know if we get more time for bolt actions or not, but Im sure 10 rounds in 55 seconds in doable.  Not sure your shoulder would appreciate it much though!

[BSHRADER]

Congrates on the new Mosin. I recently picked up a 42 IZZY ex-sniper. Out of the first 5 Rounds 3 were in a clover leaf at 100 Yrds with open sights. I've since had it re-tapped and installed a repro PU scope.  It now at the Smitties getting a Timney triggger installed. The trigger pull was atrocious.

[Heimdhal]

I've been meaning to put my scout mount and a scope on mine.   The iron sights are already so far off that I can't get it on the paper.  I figure I might as well just put some optics on the thing.   I've already got the mount and scope, just haven't got around to it.   

I saw a thing online that if you have a later model (91/30) from around war time, the rear sight block comes off by drifting out the two pins on it and the rail it is attached to is basicaly a 5/8 weaver, so you can use .22 scope rings (get some quality ones).  I dont know much more about it than that though, just saw a youtube where a guy mentiend he did it on his in passing and its worked good so far.

Have you tried using an internal laser bore and maybe even re-crowning/counter boring it to improve it?  A good gunsmith shouldnt charge too much, then again with a 100$ rifle its not always worth the effort, lol.

[ksuguy]

I don't recall the date on it,  I know it was made in the middle of WWII though.

I've only had it out at the range one time.  Had no idea where the rounds were going since they were completely off the target at 50 yards, which was as close as I could set up.   Also had a nasty problem with a sticky bolt I need to deal with.    I've just got so many other guns in the collection that I haven't got back around to messing with it since then.       

[Xeyed]

Congratulations on your "Russian Long Rifle" purchase.

There is a lot of good information on the net about this rifle. I shot next to one at my first Appleseed. And after the weekend a shallow depression had been carved (Blown?) out of the desert floor directly in front of the shooter.

There is a lot of history behind the rifle. Go rent a copy of Enemy at the Gates if you have not seen it already.

You can watch it as you scrape the Cosmoline off the rifle. (Simple Green works great)

And since we are a history organization, here is an interesting read about a Finnish Rifleman who knew very much what he was about.
Simo Häyhä He used a Mosin Nagant to become known as "The White Death" http://mosinnagant.net/finland/simohayha.asp

Good sites with MN info.
http://mosinnagant.net
http://www.russian-mosin-nagant.com/
http://7.62x54r.net/

That will get you started.

All you need now is can of surplus ammo and a shooting jacket. It kicks like a mule and leaves an impressive bruise on your shoulder pocket without some padding.


Be sure to clean the barrel with Windex(Amonia) after shooting to clean out the corrosive residue.

Enjoy your shoulder cannon.

[4bfox]

I must have been lucky with my Mosins.....they shot pretty well right out of the wrapper. Soaking everything in paint thinner for a while will get most of the crud off....

[Heimdhal]

Congratulations on your "Russian Long Rifle" purchase.

There is a lot of good information on the net about this rifle. I shot next to one at my first Appleseed. And after the weekend a shallow depression had been carved (Blown?) out of the desert floor directly in front of the shooter.

There is a lot of history behind the rifle. Go rent a copy of Enemy at the Gates if you have not seen it already.

You an watch it as you scrape the Cosmoline off the rifle. (Simple Green works great)

And since we are a history organization, here is an interesting read about a Finnish Rifleman who knew very much what he was about.
Simo Häyhä He used a Mosin Nagant to become known as "The White Death" http://mosinnagant.net/finland/simohayha.asp

Good sites with MN info.
http://mosinnagant.net
http://www.russian-mosin-nagant.com/
http://7.62x54r.net/

That will get you started.

All you need now is can of surplus ammo and a shooting jacket. It kicks like a mule and leaves an impressive bruise on your shoulder pocket without some padding.


Be sure to clean the barrel with Windex(Amonia) after shooting to clean out the corrosive residue.

Enjoy your shoulder cannon.

Ive read about Simo before, when I was in college first, and then more in depth later.  Crazy to say the least.  He most certainly earned the name "the white death" and I think he is one of the most unsung riflemen in history.  Mind you, he never used a scope, he did all his shooting with just his irons!  A very impressive man, rifle or not, to say the least.

[Heimdhal]

I must have been lucky with my Mosins.....they shot pretty well right out of the wrapper. Soaking everything in paint thinner for a while will get most of the crud off....

I got lucky, the previous owned got all the cosmo off for me. 

Dont know how it shoots yet though, hopefully will get it out this week in Tampa.

I will be refinishing the stock though and will be using some denatured alcohol for that, so if theres any cosmo left, that ought to get it.

[ksuguy]

Another fun article about Simo:  http://www.badassoftheweek.com/hayha.html

[ThaiFighter]

nice cannon!  even if you can't hit anything, you can bayonet someone at 100 yds! 

[CaptG]

I got my first (91/30) a few weeks ago. It's at least a 4moa shooter right off the bat. I didn't find the recoil to be all that bad, but I hunt with a 6 1/2 lb 30-06. I got it for a truck rifle, but it is a tad long. I'll have to get a 44 while they're still around. There's a great anecdote on milsurps about shooting a 44 at an indoor range - the first round blew out all the lights. 

Guy

[4bfox]

I got my first (91/30) a few weeks ago. It's at least a 4moa shooter right off the bat. I didn't find the recoil to be all that bad, but I hunt with a 6 1/2 lb 30-06. I got it for a truck rifle, but it is a tad long. I'll have to get a 44 while they're still around. There's a great anecdote on milsurps about shooting a 44 at an indoor range - the first round blew out all the lights. 

Guy

Yep....I could sure see that happening....I know my ears ring for a couple of days after shooting mine...the muzzle blast either makes a hole in the ground or burns off the grass, if you're shooting prone. The muzzle brake for the M44 DOES help tame the recoil to some extent....manageable at least.

[featherblue]

I've been meaning to put my scout mount and a scope on mine.   The iron sights are already so far off that I can't get it on the paper.  I figure I might as well just put some optics on the thing.   I've already got the mount and scope, just haven't got around to it.   

Ha ha ha! A lot of the Mosins were used as crow bars by the peasants who were issued the beasts!! I had to knock the front sight over a bunch to get my 91-30 Tula on target. It's a 1939 year model and is one hell of a lot of fun to shoot. Also, I have fired two different lots of the same ammo (Russian spam can) and they required a considerable elevation adjustment between the two.

A girl was shooting one at the last Appleseed here in Gardnerville and I just had to get one after watching her fire hers.

-fb

[nmmi9100]

Must be the "Month of the Mosin"...I finally gave in and picked one up last week.

Of course it's not a regular Mosin....it's a Finnish M39 unissued, VKT 1944 "D" barrel.

So far, it'll shoot 2 MOA with 200 grain D166's.

-David
Edgewood, NM

[Heimdhal]

Must be the "Month of the Mosin"...I finally gave in and picked one up last week.

Of course it's not a regular Mosin....it's a Finnish M39 unissued, VKT 1944 "D" barrel.

So far, it'll shoot 2 MOA with 200 grain D166's.

-David
Edgewood, NM

Ohh, nice!  How much was it?

[nmmi9100]

Must be the "Month of the Mosin"...I finally gave in and picked one up last week.

Of course it's not a regular Mosin....it's a Finnish M39 unissued, VKT 1944 "D" barrel.

So far, it'll shoot 2 MOA with 200 grain D166's.

-David
Edgewood, NM

Ohh, nice!  How much was it?

www.gunsnammo.com   You can even get some shipped straight to your door with no paperwork since some of the receivers are pre-1899.

The price of mine was the bad part...$359...but it is unissued...new stock, new barrel.  This one is for me to keep.  Going to get my 2 son's a couple M91/30's from Aimsurplus.com for $69 here soon....But I just had to have a Finn M39...Reading a book on the Winter War right now.  The Finns vs. the Russians is a hell of a story of small unit guerilla tactics in action...kinda like the Colonists and the Regulars.

-David
Edgewood, NM

[K98Al]

FWIW - I've had many Mosin's, including the 44s, and they are rugged, reliable rifles.

Sierra makes a 150gr .311 bullet, that, loaded at minimum charge, doesn't throw flames and also groups much better than milsurp corrosive ammo. And the surplus ammo IS very corrosive!

Dittos on the M39- that's the Cadillac of the Mosins, it's nice to own a rifle that was valiantly used to defy the reds! I'll have to try the 200s, I've been loading Sierra 180s for mine, good medicine for whitetails!

For an economical trigger adjust, there's a few pages online that will tell you how to improve your trigger by shimming with aluminum from a can. I've tried it, and it does improve the trigger for zero money.

[DaddyFatty]

Local Ranges in Tampa.

There is a Shoot Straight off of 301 with a 100 yard indoor range. I am not sure about using the 54R rounds. Call first 813-627-8550. It has been my experience that the rifle side of the range is lightly used and starting at 25 yards with a full size silhouette will help you get your bulk adjustments before fine tuning to 100 yards. It does take a while to run out your target using the motorized clothes line so bring binoculars and a note pad and mark your hits on your note pad.

-DF

[Heimdhal]

Local Ranges in Tampa.

There is a Shoot Straight off of 301 with a 100 yard indoor range. I am not sure about using the 54R rounds. Call first 813-627-8550. It has been my experience that the rifle side of the range is lightly used and starting at 25 yards with a full size silhouette will help you get your bulk adjustments before fine tuning to 100 yards. It does take a while to run out your target using the motorized clothes line so bring binoculars and a note pad and mark your hits on your note pad.

-DF

Thats the one I was thinking about checking out this week, maybe on a thursday in hopes it would be less crowded.  Ill give em a call to check if they allow x54 as you suggest, because I know some indoor ranges only allow up to .308 and if they are like the ones in palm beach county, they dont like "commie" guns very much.  Some of em here flat our refuse to allow ANY x39 on their rangers, period.    All well, they are overpriced, price gougers anyways. 

[Heimdhal]

I called up shoot straight.  They allow 7.52x54r on their range.  Actualy they allow up to and including .50 BMG, so they have a pretty hefty back stop.

They are 15$ per hour per person, but may let you go over if its a slow day. 13$ per hour if you buy their ammo (which I have my own, so I dont need theirs).

Well be getting into tampa thursday, I plan on heading over to the range either friday afternoon or monday (we are going over to help my mother in law who is having a surgery for breast cancer, so weekends will be busy).  Ive got to sight in an AK, check my mosin and plink around with my .22 and .45, so if anyone wants to make a day of it, send me a PM and well set up a time.  

We could run some modified AQT's (standing at least) and some ball and dummy drills and the like. 

[Heimdhal]

***!!!Field Reports with pictures!!!***


Finaly got the mosin and some of the other toys out today.

Of course, the mosin will be first.  I skipped using up my sighter targets and went right to the zombie target at 25m just to make sure it all check out ok.



I cirlced the 5 shots from the mosin in red (the others are from a .22 mag dump)

First, I'd liek to explain my "errant" round that found its way into the poor zombies former reproductive area.  It wasnt actualy an errant round.  It wasnt totaly intentional either.  See, I had been messing around with the mosin bolt and then remembered I didnt have a tool to check to see if the firing pin depth was correct.  I was affraid it was protruding too far and would peirce the primer, sending gas back into the bolt face, thus sending the bolt assembly into MY face, which would hurt, alot.  So, I got everything set up, and in the true spirit of manliness, I placed the rifle on the rest, i held it quite firmly in both hands, line up the sights, and then pulled my face as far to the left as humanly possible before squeezing off the trigger with my eyes closed and a little girly screech.  And that is where the first shot went.

After inspecting the case for any bad signs of wear, and the primer for any signs of over penetration, I concluded my firing pin was just right, my chamber was pristin and I could safley continue the shoot.  And so, with a little hesitation, I finished the mag, placing all my shots in the four inch red circle on Mr zombies chest.  I wasnt going for accuracy, I was just testing to see if I was manly enough to fire the rest of the mag.  I just barley was.


sNow, on to the other targets:

This is a sighter for my marlin .22.  I had to readjust my scope.  I want to take this time now to never complain about my marlin again.  Granted the first group (directly below the center square) is low, but all five shots are practically within the same hole, less than ½ inch total
Once I had it sighted in properly it was a tack driver the rest of the day.  But I did notice my shots would slowly start to drift down.  I don't know if this was MY shooting, or my cheap scope.  Im going to blame my cheap scope, simply because it's the internet, and I can.

Next, I had to sight in one of my .30 cal rifles, an American built AK.


It was WAY off.  I don't know why, but it was drastically off.  You can see it was all over the place.  A little tinkering with the sights and I eventually got it a little better.  I was using 123 grain Wolf ammo, which isn't exactly the most precise ammo on the market.


HOWEVER, I would like to take THIS opportunity to never chastise my AK again.  Because, once I put a fresh new sighter target out at 25m and really focused, and used some low grade 124 brown bear ammo I shot THIS target, and repeated it the rest of day.

Sure, its at 25 yards, but still that's crappy ammo out of an AK, 5 rounds in just over 1 inch.  Yeah, yeah, I know, its not mr sniper rifle, but I'll take it.  My last target that I shot with my Ak was at 100 yards.  I regretfully do not have that target, because the track it was on got stuck at 100 yards and I could not retrieve it.  I did take a peak at it through my .22 scope and all 30 rounds were well within the 8 inch circle.  Well, it looked like 30, im sure a couple didn't make it.  This was all iron sights, btw, and god they suck.

My last target to display is a scaled AQT.  It's a little smaller than usual, so the ranges are a little "further" than usual.
I shot about two or three of these, didn't get rifleman on any of em, but the one I did actually save wound up being scored 200.

Granted, the COF isn't exactly the same since I cant do all the different position, but I did try to make it as difficult as possible and NOT use a bench rest on any of em.  So, without any further ado, here it is:


All in all, not a bad 3 hours at the range.  Lots of targets wound up in the trash, these came home for "studying" purposes.  Thanks for reading yall.  Now get out there and practice, this Appleseed stuff really does work!

[nmmi9100]

Nice targets....AK is running pretty darn good!  Where you have the 1MOA underlined, those squares really are 4 MOA, right?  Looks like 1/4" graph paper which would be 1 square = 1 MOA at 25yards.

Is there a place to download those squares targets?  I need a few and forgot to grab them out of the last shoot box where I worked.

-David
Edgewood, NM

[Heimdhal]

Nice targets....AK is running pretty darn good!  Where you have the 1MOA underlined, those squares really are 4 MOA, right?  Looks like 1/4" graph paper which would be 1 square = 1 MOA at 25yards.

Is there a place to download those squares targets?  I need a few and forgot to grab them out of the last shoot box where I worked.

-David
Edgewood, NM

Ty.

yeah, on that grid, 1 square is 1 moa at 25 meters, so each square is 4 moa, or 1 inch in width and height

I found em on here, actualy, under the sticked post in the 'resources" section.  Heres the link for it:
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=7406.0

it is a VERY helpfull sticky, in fact its wehre I got nearly all my targets (except the zombie one)

[DanT]

Got one myself a month or so ago & shot it for the first time at the Hartford Appleseed.  The stock is so short that pulling the trigger resulted in my thumb knuckle being driven into my cheekbone... every time.  Gonna have to get an extender pad of some sort to cure that.  Between the rifle & the unfamiliar positions beating me up I was quite glad when the range management asked that no large-bore rifles be used on Sunday... seems the berm behind the 25 meter targets was torn up ... furrows quite plainly visible particularly behind my target -- I finished out with a loaner .22 (Thanks, Fred V.!).

Gonna be at the November Appleseed at the same location, but with a new .22 instead of the 7.62xWayTooBig.