New York Times Article on Appleseed

[zero713]

FYI - the New York Times published their article, with some video of the Winterset, IA shoot in July.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/magazine/01Appleseed-t.html

I believe we were told that they were doing a piece on the Founding Fathers? Maybe my memory is bad, because that's not really what was written.

Here's my take on the article. Although it was explicitly mentioned by some of the RWVA members that this wasn't the intention, it seemed to be an attempt to link Appleseed and the RWVA with the desire to revolt against the government or perhaps some of the more fringe elements that one might encounter. I say attempt because I'm not convinced that he really made the connection. In fairness, on page three of the article, he provides feedback from other organizations/people that is primarily positive in the suggestion that Appleseed is not attempting to incite any type of violence.

By the way, I thought the representatives of the RWVA did a great job in giving Matt as little ammunition (pardon the pun) as possible to achieve that goal.

In all honestly, when we got there and were told that the NY Times was doing this article, I was expecting it to be a complete smear on the Appleseed project (which is a large part of why I didn't want to interview with them). How can anyone truly trust the liberal media? While it wasn't as bad as I was expecting, I still think it should have been less conspiracy and more about the lessons and values that Appleseed attempts to teach. Maybe he was too focused on making suggestions and insinuations to pick up on the underlying message of liberty and freemen?

Even though the article ticks me off a bit, hopefully it will still help your organization reach a larger audience ("no such thing as bad press"). Maybe that's what you were all expecting from the get go.

Not sure if this article has been posted elsewhere in the forums.

Best Regards,

Gavin

PS: I'd be interested in hearing other people's thoughts on the article. Maybe I'm just too cynical for my own good. Plus, I may have a predisposed biased in reading the article since I was expecting negativity from the get-go (therefore I may be making things negative that aren't necessarily).

[Fred]

Maybe he was too focused on making suggestions and insinuations to pick up on the underlying message of liberty and freemen?

    It's even possible he saw the real message and purpose of Appleseed, and out of fear tried to suppress that message and purpose...

    Thanks for posting this.

     PS: See reply #20 at http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=15641.msg129428#msg129428

[marrandy]

     PS: See reply #20 at http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=15641.msg129428#msg129428

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[Mogget]

Here:

http://forum.pafoa.org/news-123/107219-appleseed-new-york-times-article.html#post1290225

Mogs

[Fred]

    Here's the one I was referring to - Mogget is steering you to the NYT article itself - maybe read it, before you read the below:

Here's a witty response at PAFOA which we have permission to use courtesy of Adam-12.  I've noticed that it's already been posted in several places, but please distribute freely...

---------
[Adam-12] I'm reading the article now, and I'm appalled--but also filled with wonder and admiration at the writer's propaganda superpower. So far I've seen a dozen places where he states the facts very accurately, and yet makes them sound terrifying and ominous. For example:

They see marksmanship as fundamental to Americans' ability to defend their liberty, whether against foreigners or the agents of a (hypothetical) tyrannical government.

The parentheses work like scare-quotes here: to let everyone know that it's not really theoretical at all, and everyone's champing at the bit to go get Obama.

came from Georgia, Florida, Illinois and Ohio, bearing .22-caliber Rugers and Marlins outfitted with custom sights -- what Appleseed calls Liberty Training Rifles.

The "custom sights" are Tech sights, to convert your Ruger 10/22 from cheapo notch sights to something more like an M1 or AR would have. They're still iron sights--nothing fancy, nothing special. It's still a hell of a challenge to make "Rifleman" with them. But "custom sights" make it sound like some sort of high-tech hitman equipment. And in that context doesn't "Liberty Training Rifles" sound ominous? ZOMG, they're in training!!!!


Quote

Though they were diverse in age and class, their uniformly white skin, down-home talk and traditional values suggested a common attachment to an America that had lost its long-held claim to the cultural center.

Hardly needs comment. I think there was one black guy at the Appleseed I attended; shooting sports are less popular in the black community. It's hardly the Appleseed folks' fault. "Down home" is code for "Southern," of course. This event was in North-frickin'-Carolina. Of course it was packed with Southerners. And the "lost America" he's referring to is obviously the pre-war South. Yep. These folks is obviously practicin' to go git ther slaves back.

...In April, on the 15th anniversary of the Oklahoma City bombing, former President Bill Clinton sought to move this cultural line...

Ah yes, a paragraph out of nowhere, reminding us of Oklahoma City and the then popular demonization of the "Militia movement."

Inside the Appleseed Project, the question of where an armed citizenry should draw this line remains open...

In other words, "Will they shoot you? Won't they? They ain't telling." Of course it remains open: there comes a time when the people must rise up and repel an invasion by Hottentots, but it's a theoretical discussion until something like that actually happens. Sounds so ominous when you put it that way, though.

Later that week, as he sipped a Coke at a nearby McDonald's, Dailey flirted with an answer...

Translation: "Sneaky man. He won't say directly. He's shifty and evasive. He kinda answered, but not really. I was afraid to turn my back on him. My skin crawled."


Quote

"If you ever have to reach for your guns, you've lost before you started," he said, and then doubled back...

So the accurate quote, which debunks all that nonsense, is then called a lie by saying he "doubled back."

"Now, there are probably some narrow, hypothetical exceptions to that. Like if somebody in the government said, 'We're taking over the country.' You might find there'd be a spontaneous. . . . I don't know. I don't know what it would be. And to be perfectly honest with you, I wouldn't want to see it."

Nothing to see here. But with the setup line about "doubling back," it sure sounds scary, don't it?

Vandiver is the kind of man that Dailey likes to characterize as a "regular American," words intended as the highest praise.

This line is a masterpiece. Dailey compliments his country, his countrymen and Vandiver, by approvingly calling him a "regular American." Sounds pretty apple-pie to me. But no, those words are only "intended as" praise. So there must be something going on that I'm not getting, right? What could it be? Oh, I know! I bet "regular American" is secret racist code for "White Man." With two words, this writer can turn an innocuous comment into a KKK rally. Say what you want about him: the guy is really good at this.

In the middle of the firing line lay David and Darrell Garvey, two brothers with sun-reddened skin and graying beards...

Yeah, I bet their necks were especially reddened.

Before the housing crash, the Garveys grossed as much as $1 million a year installing floors in vacation homes. Now they were unemployed. They loaded their magazines and pulled the charging handles...

WOW, does that paint a picture or what? Rich bastards (eat the rich!) turned into unemployed, pissed-off rednecks overnight. Locking, loading, and coming soon to a neighborhood near you! ZOMG! Pissed-off white trash with rifles!!!!!!!

I take my hat off to this master. I don't think I've ever read a more expertly done hit piece. He appears to get all his facts right, and still make it sound like the next Oklahoma City.

[Whisker]

FYI - the New York Times published their article, with some video of the Winterset, IA shoot in July.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/magazine/01Appleseed-t.html

I believe we were told that they were doing a piece on the Founding Fathers? Maybe my memory is bad, because that's not really what was written.

Here's my take on the article. Although it was explicitly mentioned by some of the RWVA members that this wasn't the intention, it seemed to be an attempt to link Appleseed and the RWVA with the desire to revolt against the government or perhaps some of the more fringe elements that one might encounter. I say attempt because I'm not convinced that he really made the connection. In fairness, on page three of the article, he provides feedback from other organizations/people that is primarily positive in the suggestion that Appleseed is not attempting to incite any type of violence.

By the way, I thought the representatives of the RWVA did a great job in giving Matt as little ammunition (pardon the pun) as possible to achieve that goal.

In all honestly, when we got there and were told that the NY Times was doing this article, I was expecting it to be a complete smear on the Appleseed project (which is a large part of why I didn't want to interview with them). How can anyone truly trust the liberal media? While it wasn't as bad as I was expecting, I still think it should have been less conspiracy and more about the lessons and values that Appleseed attempts to teach. Maybe he was too focused on making suggestions and insinuations to pick up on the underlying message of liberty and freemen?

Even though the article ticks me off a bit, hopefully it will still help your organization reach a larger audience ("no such thing as bad press"). Maybe that's what you were all expecting from the get go.

Not sure if this article has been posted elsewhere in the forums.

Best Regards,

Gavin

PS: I'd be interested in hearing other people's thoughts on the article. Maybe I'm just too cynical for my own good. Plus, I may have a predisposed biased in reading the article since I was expecting negativity from the get-go (therefore I may be making things negative that aren't necessarily).

Hey Gavin,
Glad to see you on the forums.  Maybe I misunderstood, but isn't your wife Maria from Mexico?  Sorry if I'm mistaken.  I just am annoyed by the reporter's insistence that the line was all "white," as if skin color defines ethnicity.  This doesn't really matter, I just was curious. 
Hope to see you both at a future shoot.  Maybe Montrose? 
W

[Earl]

I went to my local library to find the print version of the article. The Appleseed seems to be a filler, not really on the cover, and towards the back, and nothing to draw interest into reading the article unless you are really thinking about shooting, militias and things you don't understand. I have an idea the internet release will get more readers than the print will, but some will read the print, what they miss will be all the comments and invitations that Appleseed left on the NYT comment pages, eight pages the last time I checked. Looking at what I remembered about the New York Times Magazine and what it is today, I don't wonder that the circulation is declining. It doesn't cover the same stuff its readers once looked for immediately.

[willorith]

It is the photo of the wadded up flag on a shooting mat with a rifle on top that chaps my lips. This is clearly a staged photograph. The flag of The United States of America would not be treated in such a manner at any Appleseed event I have been at.

The photographer probably had to stage the shot away from the range to prevent spontaneous development of hemorrhagic proboscis associated with bilateral ecchymosis of the orbits.

[zero713]

Hey Gavin,
Glad to see you on the forums.  Maybe I misunderstood, but isn't your wife Maria from Mexico?  Sorry if I'm mistaken.  I just am annoyed by the reporter's insistence that the line was all "white," as if skin color defines ethnicity.  This doesn't really matter, I just was curious. 
Hope to see you both at a future shoot.  Maybe Montrose? 
W

Hi Whisker,

Glad to be here. It's always a pleasure to interact with like-minded citizens.

Yes, you remember correctly. She is Mexican, currently a legal resident working towards getting her citizenship.

I do hope we make it out to another shoot, regardless of the location.

Best Regards,

Gavin