center fire rifle

[Mathias]

This is a question for the Missouri Osage Beach Appleseed.  I went to the Missouri board to ask this question but couldn't fine a place to start a new topic.  So I'm hoping some of the people from Illinois can help answer my question.  The Osage event says they have a 500 yard range and they encourage center-fire.  I have several 308 center-fire rifles, but as I understand the program we will be shooting 400 or more rounds at the event.  Needless to say, 400 rounds of 308 is several hundreds of dollars.  Now I also have a SW MP 15-22 LR.  Could I shoot maybe...half the time with the 308 ammo and the other half with the .22 caliber?  Best, Mathias     

[eaglescouter]

I would recommend using the .22 on Saturday.
Change to the 308 for Sunday.

[Missouri Brigade]

.22s are highly encouraged.  I feel one of my biggest mistakes I made in Appleseed was to use my AR in .223 for almost two whole shoots before switching to the 10/22 and committing to using it until I shot expert.  Lo and behold at my 3rd Appleseed event, the 2009 Osage Rifleman Boot Camp, I shot Rifleman with my .22 on the third day.  I then shot a square or two with my AR and promptly shot a 220 something on the AQT with my AR.  I then scored a Rifleman score at full distance with my AR--which is easier as the targets are solid black, huge, and there are no target transitions.  Get your base learning and ongoing practice in with your .22, it absolutely pays off when you switch to your centerfire at full distance.  Shoot at least 10 rounds of .22 for every centerfire and shoot 100 rounds of dry fire for every centerfire.

The main 25 meter event line at Osage is separate from the full distance range.  Use it to practice with your .22 and zero your centerfire.  I imagine they'll take some of the better shots to the full distance range to use their centerfires.  It takes longer to walk or ride to the targets and you pretty much need to paste targets after every 10 rounds so your rate of burning ammo actually might not be too high at full distance.

[Mathias]

Thanks for the info.  It all sounds like good advice.  If I could ask one last question.  It's about shooting a score of 210 on the AQT test.  I read about it on the "How to prepare" section of this website but I'm not sure I understand it.  Do you shoot from different positions...like prone and standing? Can you have a full magazine or do you load just a couple of bullets in your magazine, then re-load or change out mags when you change shooting positions?  And to obtain a point or score, does it have to be a bulls eye?   

[willorith]

You are worrying about way too much way too soon.

As you progress through the program of instruction, the instructors will introduce each new concept, or position then you will practice that new skill.

By Saturday afternoon you have the full dose of instruction, and one or two AQTs will be shot. At that time the instructors will explain, very precisely, the exact procedure for shooting the AQT.

Sunday morning is spent reviewing what you learned on Saturday. Sunday afternoon is the AQT grind when 5-10 AQTs are shot to give attendees every opportunity to qualify for their Rifleman badge.

Eat some bananas each morning. Have plenty of water with you drink often. Eat a light lunch eat light snacks all day. The rifleman's challenge is physical, psychological, and intellectual. You will probably require 3 or four events to earn your badge. Do not be discouraged. The instructors teaching you also took several events to earn their badges.

If it was easy to get, your eyes wouldn't light up with recognition when you saw someone wearing one. Your heart wouldn't swell with pride when your son earned his badge. You wouldn't beam with pride when you explained to a new friend at church that we live in the only nation on Earth where this is allowed to happen, and your family have all earned their badges.

Work hard at this. Encourage your friends and family to do it also. Help apply a little more force to the rudder of this old ship. Help us swing her bow back to the proper course.

Incremental changes by many individuals results in very large changes on a national scale.

[Mathias]

Thanks Willorith.  Appreciate the advice.

[Missouri Brigade]

The quick and dirty Army Qualification Test goes like so:

1.  The top target simulates 100 yards and is 10 rounds standing.  You get 2 minutes, so it is prudent to relax a couple times as 2 minutes is plenty of time.  Don't fuss these too much as the target is big, be on target and shoot.  50 points possible.

2.  The next is standing to seated at the 200 yard target, 55 seconds with a mag change.  (The target says 50 seconds, but since we do not do loaded transitions at events, you get 5 more seconds.)  Prep one mag with 2 rounds and one with 8 rounds.  Start standing with your rifle unloaded and safety on.  At the fire command go to the seated position and load your rifle.  Shoot two (a good trick is to shoot one, then change mags so you don't have to work the bolt again) then shoot 3/4 into the left target.  Shift your rear slightly and shoot 5 into the right target.  50 points possible

3.  The 3rd group of silhouettes (they're getting pretty small) simulates 300 yards rapid fire prone.  You get 65 seconds standing to prone with a mag change.  Shoot 3, 3, and 4.  50 points possible.

4.  The bottom targets simulate 400 yards.  You start and stay in prone and you have 5 minutes.  2, 2, 3, and 3.  You don't have to do a mag change.  This one is the most important, as it counts double.  Tally up your score, double it for a maximum of 100 points.

A shot scores based on what area of the target it is in.  If it is hitting a line, it counts for the higher value.  If you are shooting a 22 caliber rifle, use the 30 cal rule if your shot is on a border and score it as if it made a 30 caliber hole.

We cease fire and clear the rifles between each 10 shot course of fire unless we are doing a rapid drill where you just shoot it all at once quickly.  You have prep periods to adjust your sling, dry fire, and figure out your natural point of aim.

When is your first Appleseed?  It sounds like you have the most important parts covered--a positive teachable attitude and willingness to prepare and practice.

[DuaneRN]

Many people progress faster if they master the fundamentals on a .22.  It is easier on the wallet to use a .22 until you shoot Rifleman and then switch to a centerfire.  It is also easier to figure out what you're doing wrong when you don't have more recoil to complicate the situation.

I shot an M1A my first AS and wish I had used a .22.

[Mathias]

My first Appleseed is June 19 and 20 at Osage Beach.  I have done some shooting in the past, so I do have an amount of experience.  What drew me to Appleseed was the attitude that the organization has about our American history and keepig alive the centeral idea of what our heritage is.  In today's world it's easy to forget those things and to forget about the great men and women who sacrificed everything.  We owe them a lot, and for sure, we owe them enough to keep their memory and their dream alive.  Shooting to get a marksman's badge and qualifying for the AQT is exciting and in it's proper place it's important.  But I'm more excited about meeting people who have the same mindset as myself and possibly working with them to keep our history forefront.  Best, Mathias.       

[Jungle George]

Bring both, shoot the 22 till you make rifleman,  learn the basics first. Why beat your self up with a centerfire and waste the expensive ammo?  When you relearn to shoot with a 22, you will shoot the same with any rifle you pick up. The M&P 15 rifle is a great rifle to learn with, I have one myself.  You will be learning a lot of information the first day.  In my humble opinion the 22 is the beat way to go.  The most important things to bring; a Gi web sling that fits the M 1 Garand/ M 14 rifle and an attitude of wanting to learn and you will do great things with any rifle.

JG

[jtipton]

   Good advice. I was dead set on taking a .308 but my wife and I have bought 10/22's after David ( Heretic on this forum, who has been working hard to bring Appleseed to Lubbock,TX.) gave us that same advice. Willorith.....that was inspirational. My wife and I are going to our first Appleseed in June in Amarillo Texas.