Author Topic:  (Read 7352 times)

Offline desertrat144

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 611
  • I am a citizen by choice, not an accident of birth
« on: March 08, 2010, 05:17:29 PM »
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond it's limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." - President Ronald Wilson Reagan

Offline jmdavis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1959
  • Ramseur IBC 1108
Re: "Did you say a 15 yard Appleseed??"
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2010, 05:33:58 PM »
I think the problem with the various indoor ranges is the expense. It may not always  the case, but the least expensive and often the easiest Appleseeds to set up are on private land. The reason for this is that there are no committees and usually no fees involved.

I certainly believe that there may be cases where indoor Appleseeds would and could work. But in my area we have easy access to outdoor ranges and we can usually get them with no fee to the program or the shooters. The few indoor ranges have a per lane charge and are usually quite busy on the weekends. I was at one yesterday where the fee was $8/lane/hour plus their ammo and they were 75% full for the hour or so that I was there breaking in a .22 conversion.

You would need to scale targets for 15 yards, but that is doable with a PC and printer these days. I believe that someone has already scaled them for 50 feet.


Thanks for the thoughts.  What I had in mind were University, ROTC, and similar ranges.  dr144
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 05:40:22 PM by desertrat144 »
"If a man does his best, what else is there?"  - General George S. Patton Jr

  ...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
  For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
  Shall be my brother...-Shakespeare, Henry V
 

"There's a great deal of talk about loyalty from the bottom to the top. Loyalty from the top down is even more necessary and is much less prevalent. One of the most frequently noted characteristics of great men who have remained great is loyalty to their subordinates."
- General George S. Patton, Jr

"Your body can't go where your mind hasn't been."
- Alex Arrieta 1995 NTI Winner

Offline sgtrock

  • Retired Shoot Boss
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 724
  • Ft Drum 08-10 SPARTANS
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2010, 05:40:58 PM »
Hudson Falls, N.Y., check that thread out, it was a first for NY, only had 8 lanes, no charge to AS, ran relays, probably won't do relays again, too much time lost. Good experience though. I prefer outside shoots,



Thanks, dr144
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 06:08:18 PM by desertrat144 »

Offline Buzzworth

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 218
  • Cpt. Daniel Shays escaped to Vermont 1787
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2010, 06:25:32 PM »
here these may work

Thanks.  dr144
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 08:11:22 PM by desertrat144 »
No Guns, No safety, No freedom
KNOW Guns, KNOW Safety, KNOW FREEDOM

Offline SamD

  • Inactive Instructor
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1822
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2010, 06:46:47 PM »
Remember that you have to scale the bullet hole size too.


Thanks.  dr144
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 08:12:22 PM by desertrat144 »

Offline crak

  • Inactive Instructor
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1363
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2010, 07:03:32 PM »
How come so much of this particular forum is going out as email announcements?

Might there be some incorrect setting?

I hit 'announce' when a new topic is posted that may be of interest to the AS population.  Let me know if I'm messing up, please.  dr144
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 08:15:06 PM by desertrat144 »
Check your drama at the door.

Offline CortJestir

  • Retired Shoot Boss
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 787
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2010, 07:09:35 PM »
I thought it was just me!

How come so much of this particular forum is going out as email announcements?

Might there be some incorrect setting?


Thanks; see previous post response.  dr144
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 08:16:46 PM by desertrat144 »
CT Appleseed Facebook Page

"I hate quotations. Tell me what you know." - Ralph Waldo Emerson :D

Offline Uhlan

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2010, 07:11:43 AM »
I think a 15yd Appleseed would be a great way to start teaching the bible of the BASICS and taking another REVOLUTIONARY and evolutionary step to help Un-Appleseeded masses.  HOW? Today, everyone takes for granted the LTR/.22LR training concept, BUT 3 years ago+ many instructors and participants weren't convinced that there was valid crossover experience or training from a .22 platform.

A fifteen foot Appleseed setup would now make airguns and higher quality Airsoft rifles a new generation of LTR's. This would also open up the many venues that exist were teenagers and young adults go on weekends to participate in Airsoft Tournaments to being used as "Appleseed Short/Lite" sites or VFW or AL halls that have had to close their indoor ranges to firearms but still use them for air guns.

The CMP sells Daisy air rifles for it's Airgun version of Hi-Power matches which it calls 3 Position Air Rifle http://www.odcmp.com/3P.htm [url]]http://www.odcmp.com/3P.htm http://. There are many programs such as 4H, Boyscouts, and DeMolay as well as many High Schools that have air rifle programs that could really use a dose of Appleseed.

In the Airsoft world, good quality clones of standard rifles, M1A's, AR's, Remington 700s or AK's , in GBB(Gas Blow Back-green gas or other pressurized propellant) or AEGs(an electrical gearbox that propells a piston that pushes the air) are available in near exact dimensions and weights and are sold by reputable dealers like AirsoftGI or Airsplat etc.

The advantage of the airsofts are that quality BB's(no wally/big box, sporting store stuff) run $11-$20 for 3,500 to 5,000 rds. Bolt action rifles are also available for even less money and would be adequate to even 100 feet.

Is this the future? It already is in ASIA where there are IDPA, IPSC and 3 Gun Matches every weekend in downtown Tokyo, Hong Kong, Manilla and Seoul(Check out youtube w/ videos of offices being turned into national level competition venues). Creating a program option that addresses the issues these platforms would have in the context of Appleseed, could expose the younger generations of Americans to our Message and our Program at a much quicker, less costly and more convenient rate.
Gabe Possenti; One hell of a shot!

Offline desertrat144

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 611
  • I am a citizen by choice, not an accident of birth
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2010, 01:24:29 PM »
My thanks to all that have taken the time to read & reply to this thread.  There is a lot of good information from everyone, and apparently Appleseed has incorporated this as an adjunct; it temporarily went on 'vacation'.  With the removal of land from from public to private ownership, onerous gun laws, and organizational age & firearms policies (BSA, GSA, &tc.) it may be time to very seriously revisit this.  I have informally discussed this with Fred and several Steering Committee members; while there is a growing consensus that 'some day' this may become SOP for Appleseed in some areas.  Buzzworth has posted scaled targets, SamD has revisited the thought of 'scaling' the hit holes (Sam does this mean I can't use my .50 cal on the 25M targets???  **) ), and Uhlan makes a compelling argument that pretty much would seal the deal.  Across the pond, air shotguns & rifles are used for hunting fairly large game, with some states here starting to allow it beyond pest control; readers of SGN are aware of a monthly column that is nothing but airgun discussion on air guns, quality, &tc.

I will seriously revisit the issue with Admin, if they think it worthwhile the Instructor Cadre will be polled, and there is enough interest- I guess I'll put one another hat.  Should my other half get wind of this, can anyone take in a visitor for a while?  **)

A last thought on this, the irony lies in that most state hunting, if not criminal laws consider most all of these airguns as firearms.  Go figure!
« Last Edit: March 23, 2010, 11:00:14 PM by desertrat144 »
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond it's limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." - President Ronald Wilson Reagan

Offline Fred

  • Founder and AOC Member
  • Master Instructor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11180
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2010, 03:04:08 PM »

   OK, let's consider "Step 1" done. Yes, this would work. Yes, it would open venues and populations we otherwise might not be able to reach, currently.

   So, what's "Step 2"?

   I think it's to announce this option - indoor ranges, 15 yards, air rifles - and see if anyone can find a place or group this appeals to.

    I'd announce it on the general board open to the public, and put in a request for people to keep this in mind when contacting potential Appleseeds...
"Ready to eat dirt and sweat bore solvent?" - Ask me how to become an RWVA volunteer!

      "...but he that stands it now, deserves the thanks of man and woman alike..."   Paine

     "If you can read this without a silly British accent, thank a Revolutionary War veteran" - Anon.

     "We have it in our power to begin the world over again" - Thomas Paine

     What about it, do-nothings? You heard the man, jump on in...

Offline Nickle

  • Retired Master Instructor
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7908
  • Graduate of "Appleseed Trail"
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2010, 04:05:15 PM »
Hudson Falls, N.Y., check that thread out, it was a first for NY, only had 8 lanes, no charge to AS, ran relays, probably won't do relays again, too much time lost. Good experience though. I prefer outside shoots,



We could make it work. Even with 2 relays.

Need a little bigger than usual Instructor Crew, which shouldn't be a major issue, as we have a wealth of Instructors within a 2 hour drive.

One relay shoots, while 1 relay learns. Break the Instructors down to 2 crews with one for each area, and you're there.

We need to fine-tune the details overall, create fully official targets and print them and get 'er done.
They have men amongst them who know very well what they are about, having been employed as Rangers against the Indians and Canadians and this country being much covered with wood, and hilly, is very advantageous for their method of fighting. . . . ".  Lord Percy

Sounds like New Englanders to me.

Offline student

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 278
  • Ask yourself "What would a Free Man do?"
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2010, 09:24:17 AM »
I have an indoor 50 ft range on the university where I teach.  I think we can make this happen here.  I only have 14 lanes though.  We are completely wheel chair accessable.  That is what originaly got this converstation started.  We were thinking of using my range as a lab for the adaptave AS program.  It is accessable for everyone and we can work on methods of adapting AS to various issues.

Aaron
Live the life others gave up for you.

www.skillgarden.net

Lead, Follow, or Get out of the way!

Offline desertrat144

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 611
  • I am a citizen by choice, not an accident of birth
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2010, 01:34:10 PM »
General question, with all the Appleseed irons in the fire, should this be its own entity or fall under A.AS?  My $0.02 worth- it should be its own entity, allowing growth & 'tweaking' as needed without disturbing the flow within AS.

  As far as the mechanisms, it appears the logistics are already done (targets- THX Buzzworth, Relays & COF- THX sgtrock & Nickle), but a special Thank You student for planting another seed, and Fred for supporting this effort.

I can cobble a 'Airpowered AS' manual together over next few weeks, but I'd like some URLs of past shoots & notes from those that have run this type of shoot.  One question that Sam D posed begs an answer- "How to scale for .17-.22+ air rifle hits?"  Another question from my old BB Gun days, how to insure the rifle is completely clear, and how to deal with rifles that need to be 'fully charged' prior to use?

Tom

P.S.  Should my wife findout I'm taking this on, can anyone take in a refugee?  ;D
« Last Edit: March 26, 2010, 01:35:53 PM by desertrat144 »
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond it's limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." - President Ronald Wilson Reagan

Offline Fred

  • Founder and AOC Member
  • Master Instructor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11180
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2010, 01:43:59 PM »
General question, with all the Appleseed irons in the fire, should this be its own entity or fall under A.AS?  My $0.02 worth- it should be its own entity, allowing growth & 'tweaking' as needed without disturbing the flow within AS.

   I think it will be important to A.AS in a big way. But you are correct, in that it will be its own entity, to which A.ASers will simply come - altho a special AS for A.ASers-only would not be a problem.

   Let's work on getting some A.ASers as instructors. Whoa! I guess we have some already 'in the pipeline' - but do we have any Red Hat A.ASers yet?

   If not, how close are we?
"Ready to eat dirt and sweat bore solvent?" - Ask me how to become an RWVA volunteer!

      "...but he that stands it now, deserves the thanks of man and woman alike..."   Paine

     "If you can read this without a silly British accent, thank a Revolutionary War veteran" - Anon.

     "We have it in our power to begin the world over again" - Thomas Paine

     What about it, do-nothings? You heard the man, jump on in...

Offline desertrat144

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 611
  • I am a citizen by choice, not an accident of birth
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2010, 06:44:05 PM »
General question, with all the Appleseed irons in the fire, should this be its own entity or fall under A.AS?  My $0.02 worth- it should be its own entity, allowing growth & 'tweaking' as needed without disturbing the flow within AS.
There are some in Ohio and NY, not sure how far along though.
Tom
   I think it will be important to A.AS in a big way. But you are correct, in that it will be its own entity, to which A.ASers will simply come - altho a special AS for A.ASers-only would not be a problem.

   Let's work on getting some A.ASers as instructors. Whoa! I guess we have some already 'in the pipeline' - but do we have any Red Hat A.ASers yet?

   If not, how close are we?
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond it's limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." - President Ronald Wilson Reagan

Offline AR10

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 13
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2010, 04:27:15 AM »
actually 10 meters would be a better fit for most air guns.  at least in the crowd i seem to hang with.  it would give some of the space gunners (Olympic style rifles) a chance to see if they can actually do something like this.

Offline AR10

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 13
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2010, 04:35:25 AM »
i forgot to mention i did a photo reduction from 25 meters to 10 meters for my air rifle.  i have a daisy avanti and have shot the Crossman Challenger.  both do well at 1o meters and are more the sufficient to get someone started.  the only problem is these are single shot rifles.

Thanks. dr144
« Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 12:29:29 PM by desertrat144 »

Offline Uhlan

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2010, 05:05:52 AM »
A great frame work for rules, regulations, range commands and rules would be the 3 Position Air Rifle Program Rulebook http://www.odcmp.com/3P/Rules.pdf . The rifles that are authorized cover pre-charged as well as side-pump, under pump and others and here is a cross section on a 4-H site in NM, http://www.vc4hss.com/Air_Rifle/approved_rifles/index.htm and they also have alot more info on their homepage at http://www.vc4hss.com/Air_Rifle/. Way to go into motion on a concept! Love the synergy!


Another interesting site.
http://www.aiac-airguns.org/glossary.html

Thanks.  dr144
« Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 12:30:17 PM by desertrat144 »
Gabe Possenti; One hell of a shot!

Offline javaguy

  • Retired IIT
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 121
Re: “Did you say a 15 yard Appleseed??
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2010, 11:06:20 AM »
I think a 15yd Appleseed would be a great way to start teaching the bible of the BASICS and taking another REVOLUTIONARY and evolutionary step to help Un-Appleseeded masses.  HOW? Today, everyone takes for granted the LTR/.22LR training concept, BUT 3 years ago+ many instructors and participants weren't convinced that there was valid crossover experience or training from a .22 platform.

A fifteen foot Appleseed setup would now make airguns and higher quality Airsoft rifles a new generation of LTR's. This would also open up the many venues that exist were teenagers and young adults go on weekends to participate in Airsoft Tournaments to being used as "Appleseed Short/Lite" sites or VFW or AL halls that have had to close their indoor ranges to firearms but still use them for air guns.

The CMP sells Daisy air rifles for it's Airgun version of Hi-Power matches which it calls 3 Position Air Rifle http://www.odcmp.com/3P.htm [url=http://]]]http://www.odcmp.com/3P.htm http://. There are many programs such as 4H, Boyscouts, and DeMolay as well as many High Schools that have air rifle programs that could really use a dose of Appleseed.

In the Airsoft world, good quality clones of standard rifles, M1A's, AR's, Remington 700s or AK's , in GBB(Gas Blow Back-green gas or other pressurized propellant) or AEGs(an electrical gearbox that propells a piston that pushes the air) are available in near exact dimensions and weights and are sold by reputable dealers like AirsoftGI or Airsplat etc.
<snip>


Excellent!  Here in MN, this would open up the winter months to Appleseed marksmanship instruction and our instructors wouldn't get rusty either.  Near us, the local VFW opens their building to air rifle competition one night a week.  I'm sure we could find a location for indoor appleseeds.  Seems like there potentially 3 levels of demonstrated marksmanship - air rifle 50ft, rimfire/centerfire 25m, and centerfire actual distance.

Not sure about airsoft - I don't think the bb's fly accurately enough for this kind of thing.  Air rifles shooting those pellets are very accurate I hear..



Thank you. A quick note on Airsoft. From what I understand , their upper end (read $$$) rifles are pretty accurate.  I don't have any experience with them, so I'll have to talk with a local vendor (reputable and makes a good living from them) to get some specifics.  dr144

haha - I'll probably find out the hard way.  My son (13 yrs) has organized an airsoft party for this aft and I am going to be one of the participants :-)  He is pretty well setup.  I am too old and slow, so will make a big moa target for the young guys !
« Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 01:34:45 PM by javaguy »

Offline desertrat144

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 611
  • I am a citizen by choice, not an accident of birth
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2010, 12:50:06 PM »
Wow!!  My heartfelt thanks to all that have responded! O0  And a very special thanks for the links provided O0 O0  Once I get past the mountain of reference reading, I'll have a 'starting point' for this.  Bottom line, it looks like this is going to happen!

Now the question to everyone: How many of you that have responded are up for forming a team to put this all together, and make it happen?

The question of scaling the caliber & hit looks like it may be the most problematic thing in this whole process!  Who da thunk???

Tom
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond it's limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." - President Ronald Wilson Reagan

Offline AR10

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 13
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2010, 04:32:54 AM »
after shooting a few targets at 10 meters,  i think with the 177 cal. (4.5 mm) we could use a 22 rule, much like the 30 cal rule when shooting 25 meters.


Thanks, dr144
« Last Edit: March 28, 2010, 02:26:47 PM by desertrat144 »

Offline Uhlan

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2010, 05:01:28 AM »
I agree w/ AR10 about a .177/.22 rule. What we are doing is basically reinventing 3 position air-rifle in the context of Appleseed 101.


After a cursory look through the CMP & 4H 3 Position Manuals, I was thinking just comshaw relevant parts, and adapting them to AS, acknowledging sources of course.  The scaling re:caliber seems to be the breaking point of making it work.  It is prob addressed in the manuals, but I have not had a chance to review them yet.

Is there enough interest to team up and make this happen?

desertrat144
« Last Edit: April 05, 2010, 11:14:20 PM by desertrat144 »
Gabe Possenti; One hell of a shot!

Offline AR10

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 13
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2010, 04:09:05 AM »
i have been looking at the modified 30 cal rule for the 10 meter targets.

after doing a few more scaled down targets.  i don't think we would need to have any kind of rule to compensate for using small caliber projectile.

i would just guessing the same would apply for the 15 meter or 50 foot target and the 22 caliber bullet.


Thanks.  I'll run this by Fred after the upcoming weekend. dr144
« Last Edit: April 12, 2010, 12:05:31 AM by desertrat144 »

Offline dwarven1

  • designated Shoot Boss
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1244
  • Starksboro, VT
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2010, 09:15:46 PM »
A friend of mine in NJ was asking me about some Appleseed-style training at his club - Bayview Rod & Gun S. Amboy, NJ. It's got a 50' indoor range - very small; I'm not sure we can get more than four or five shooters on the line at once, to be honest.

However, I will be sending him the targets in this thread to see if this is something he wants to pursue.

Thanks for the help with that.  AS has had a similar program before, so it might be brought back to life- yet.   dr144
« Last Edit: April 26, 2010, 04:11:37 PM by desertrat144 »
Unhappy it is ... to reflect that a brother's sword has been sheathed in a brother's breast, and that the once happy and peaceful plains of America are either to be drenched with blood or inhabited by slaves. Sad alternative! But can a virtuous man hesitate in his choice?

GEORGE WASHINGTON

Offline desertrat144

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 611
  • I am a citizen by choice, not an accident of birth
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2010, 10:57:01 PM »
Okay fellow Appleseeders, this topic was introduced a couple of months ago, we have a green light to move ahead with it.  Do we still want to?  If there is interest, time is running out to get this going.

Tom
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond it's limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." - President Ronald Wilson Reagan

Offline desertrat144

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 611
  • I am a citizen by choice, not an accident of birth
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2010, 11:07:41 PM »
UPDATE:  Here's a thread that contains, among other things validating the 15 yd AS: Did somebody cancel this program when I wasn't looking? at http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=13699.0;topicseen.

It's a long read, but the discussion dissects what we (AS) are about, and ways to help improve AS.  Give it a read, you won't regret it.

Tom

BTW, Evenstar is creating a list of Junior IITs on.  If you know of any, please drop her a line.  Improvement once again.
Tom
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond it's limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." - President Ronald Wilson Reagan

Offline AR10

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 13
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2010, 04:45:49 AM »
when i clicked on the link, i could not go there.

it is either missing or i do not have privileges to there.


Man, I hate it when that happens!  The only thing that seems to work for me is keep trying- I don't know if the site is the problem, or a restriction that really exists.  The thread has grown exponentially, 5+ pages in as many days, I jpeged them and the file are large.  I'll email them to you if you remain locked out.  Let me know.  dr144
« Last Edit: May 13, 2010, 11:52:10 PM by desertrat144 »

Offline Jules

  • Retired Instructor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 267
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history-Ulrich
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2010, 03:31:51 AM »
UPDATE:  Here's a thread that contains, among other things validating the 15 yd AS: Did somebody cancel this program when I wasn't looking? at http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=13699.0;topicseen.

It's a long read, but the discussion dissects what we (AS) are about, and ways to help improve AS.  Give it a read, you won't regret it.

Tom

BTW, Evenstar is creating a list of Junior IITs on.  If you know of any, please drop her a line.  Improvement once again.
Tom



[ quote  Re: Did somebody cancel this program when I wasn't looking?
<< Reply #100 on: Today at 07:21:06 PM >> Quote Modify Remove   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: desertrat144 on May 10, 2010, 01:59:52 PM
A bit of kibitzing on my part, but I think everyone posting has hit on a componet for the perceived decline in attendance.  Even the folks that were intersted in a 15 yard Appleseed have pulled back.  Maybe calling for someone to help or take over putting it together my have influenced that. 

All I can think of is folks still reacting to, and bracing for the next round of banking mayhem- at least when the Brits burnt down your home, you knew who to go after, and it was an act of war.  Your job and/or retirement tanked-again, and he job is gone, and you've just joined the 20+% unemployed (real numbers), yeah a day of trigger time would help, but those _____ bills are due!  The new SCOTUS rounds of appointments may be lending to a siege mentality in re 2A implications.  There's any number of unidentifiable reasons for this 'lack' of interest, but it runs with any program.  During my Civil War reenacting days, our organization ran on a 6 year 'high/low cycle'- envision a sine wave in frequency & duration.

This like all things will pass, the tricky part is not loosing sight of the big picture.

Tom[/ quote ]



Tom,

I got to this thread ( again ) while reading the AAS section.  I will tell you ( and everyone else here) in all honesty that I have felt that I belonged in this particular group. Some of us have disabilities that show visually on the outside, and others have limitations that don't show, but we can feel them.  I honestly pushed my envelope of endurance aka 'Rifleman's persistence' in order to shoot my Rifleman score. It was a long painful journey. But I did it. If I had known at the time there was an AAS component, I would have gone out and bought an AirSoft and been the first in line.

For those who know me, please don't misunderstand. I am going for my Red hat at our Sacramento shoot May 29-30. I am committed to Appleseed. I am also disabled. I have Fibromyalsia, and a few other things, that make shooting quite painful. In order to shoot my Rifleman score, I had to forego my usual meds and take copious quantities of Advil, which I am NOT supposed to take. I thank all the Instructors who helped me make my Rifleman score a reality.

I don't talk about this much, as it is what it is. Most folks don't want to hear about it, or think that such physical limitations that Fibro brings are negligible. Not so.

This is my 2 cents worth. I know I can't be the only person out there with these issues.

Is it possible to shoot Known Distance with an AirSoft???   


Jules
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.

- Eleanor Roosevelt

Offline desertrat144

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 611
  • I am a citizen by choice, not an accident of birth
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2010, 11:28:03 PM »
Quote
I have felt that I belonged in this particular group. Some of us have disabilities that show visually on the outside, and others have limitations that don't show, but we can feel them.  I honestly pushed my envelope of endurance aka 'Rifleman's persistence' in order to shoot my Rifleman score. It was a long painful journey. But I did it. If I had known at the time there was an AAS component, I would have gone out and bought an AirSoft and been the first in line.
Jules, have you considered joining our band of merry maurders?  If not, or were waiting for an invitation, consider this an invite.  How it works, is I ask the rest of A.AS Team.  Yep, high tech and complicated?  ;D

Quote
I don't talk about this much, as it is what it is. Most folks don't want to hear about it, or think that such physical limitations that Fibro brings are negligible. Not so
Most folks don't give a rat's [patoot] about much if it doesn't effect them.  There were a lot of Instructors and SB's doing the right thing before A.AS came along.  Fred let us expand what and how we do things; its nice when the boss thinks you're trying to do something good.

Quote
Is it possible to shoot Known Distance with an AirSoft???
That's an issue to be resolved.  I'd hazard a guess that its quite possible since CMP has an Air Rifle course set up; we just gotta figure out what to comshaw.  If you're interested in pursuing this, have at it.  I'm going through a med change, and road trip very soon, so I'll be off my game very soon.  Naturally, any and help is appreciated.  Acknowledgement or blame is always there!  ;D

Tom
« Last Edit: May 19, 2010, 02:29:57 PM by desertrat144 »
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond it's limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." - President Ronald Wilson Reagan

Offline desertrat144

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 611
  • I am a citizen by choice, not an accident of birth
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2010, 12:17:47 PM »
And the reason and potentials for restarting the 15 Yard Appleseed debate rages on at Can you bring other people's children to an Appleseed? at http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=12326.0;topicseen.

Not to be critical here, but it seems to me that between all the threads referred to within, that the 15 Yard Appleseed should be a done deal!! 

There's enough folks that have expressed intent and concern about kids being 'locked out' of activities by age or available resources- why not step up and let's make this happen!  As stated previously, I cannot take this on as a leader, but I am willing to help anyone wanting to make a serious effort to get this going!! Just don't tell Mrs. desertrat144!!  ;D

Tom
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond it's limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." - President Ronald Wilson Reagan