Book Loaner Program --- Virtual Muster Night Discussion!

[Hoover]

I've been mulling over the concept of a book loaner program in an effort to continue the effects of an attendee's Appleseed experience.  I'm interested in reactions/suggestions.  Below are my additional ideas.  In addition, I've attached a candidate "suggested book reading list" that might be handed out.

- Why? Because some attendees (or at least myself) wanted to immediately continue the Appleseed experience by reading more about the history of our founding.  In my case, I wanted it that evening (and, personally succeeded via an Amazon book download).   If making this resource available helps enhance or strengthen their resolve toward the next step, then this is worthwhile.

- Books will be made available to event attendees at the end of the event for them to borrow.  Initially, these would be limited to copies of Paul Revere's Ride.
- They will agree to either return the book at their cost or send payment to replace the book within 30 days.
- They will provide contact information in the event that a reminder is needed.
- A pre-addressed USPS flat rate box will be provided to them for return along with a pre-addressed envelope to send a check if they choose instead to not return it.
- Any book that is chewed up, marked up, left in the rain, stapled to a target stand or simply deemed appropriate for one's book shelf will require replacement.
- Replacement cost will be the exact cost to replace the book (using Amazon's no shipping bulk rate).  No markups or other means of recouping losses will occur.  If they choose to provide payment in excess of the actual cost, then all excesses will be used toward expanding the library.
- I will incur all costs to maintain the library and administer the loaner program.  As a result, the initial scope will be limited.

[MeanStreaker]

gliming told me about this last year and it sounds like a home run!

[Luna]

Is there a reason why we don't offer some of the items from the Appleseed store at the events?  Do we want to stay away from selling product at the events?

[MeanStreaker]

I started to look into that idea, Luna and wanted to buy in bulk and have them available at the shoots, but I started to get discouraged after talking with folks about what would be involved with 501(c)3 considerations, any tax that needs collected, how tax would change based on county, how I would reimburse myself, etc, etc.

I'm an amateur at this, so if anyone has any information on how selling books would be possible, please post here and let us know.

I wanted to have Paul Revere's Ride and Boston's Gun Bible available at a minimum.

[Luna]

I would be willing to help to get the funding started.  I don't have experience with selling and collecting taxes or the ways of non-profits.  It is a great captive audience that I think we could help further their eduction after they leave.

[Hoover]

I would be willing to help to get the funding started.  I don't have experience with selling and collecting taxes or the ways of non-profits.  It is a great captive audience that I think we could help further their eduction after they leave.

I totally agree and it was the motivation for my thinking through the loaner program idea.  By making it a non-sale transaction, then most of the sales/reporting issues go away.

[Luna]

It's a great idea.  I have an extra copy of PRR.  I lost my first, ordered a new one, then found the old one.  It's available.

[MeanStreaker]

Maybe each Instructor could anonymously donate a copy if they wanted to for loaning out by gliming?  And no pressure if they didn't want to?

[Luna]

That would be a great way to get it started.  I'm in.  Gliming when will I see you again?  You coming to the IBC?

[Hoover]

You coming to the IBC?

Absolutely! One tent over.  Looking forward to seeing you and meeting so many more.

[WY_Not]

I've got a couple of extra copies of BGB that I can make available.

WY_Not

[Edheler]

Nosing in from Pennsylvania, but just a photocopied book list of titles/authors would be handy.

[Hoover]

Nosing in from Pennsylvania, but just a photocopied book list of titles/authors would be handy.

I totally agree and was why I created one.  Did you take a look at the attachment at the original post?  Let me know if that won't do.

[Edheler]

I totally agree and was why I created one.  Did you take a look at the attachment at the original post?  Let me know if that won't do.

No, I did miss that, thanks for pointing it out. While I am a fiery political kind of guy, Boston T. Party's (Kenneth W. Royce) books might be a bit too much to put on an Appleseed list. Over the past few years I have become a died in the wool little-l libertarian and agree with most things that Royce writes but his opinions can be controversial.

By the way, some more generic history of the Revolutionary War period other than about April 19th, 1775 might be a good idea. Sadly most of the books I have found seemingly are more about tactics than the war of ideas which interests me more.

As a Mac OS X developer I will just grrr silently to myself that it's a word document. (Yes, us Mac folk can open it.)

[WY_Not]

Agree that Hologram might blow some people's mind and turn off a few but still great reading.

His BGB however contains lots of great tech type info on many many different rifles, good resource for anyone that shoots.

And yes, the above comments are a bit colored but I've known the guy for a few years. 

Glim, you going to be at the Athens IBC? We might be able to talk about this more there.

[Hoover]

Glim, you going to be at the Athens IBC? We might be able to talk about this more there.

Yes.  I think it would be a great time to talk about this more.

And, I understand the issue of potentially controversial books.  Perhaps some of this could be addressed verbally as passed out; or, perhaps two separate lists--(1) for the general public and (2) for like-minded individuals.  This is a candidate list that can definitely be adjusted as needed.

[Spanner]

His BGB however contains lots of great tech type info on many many different rifles, good resource for anyone that shoots.

The Gun Bible is a good recommendation for new shooters, especially those who don't come from shooting families, that want to bootstrap themselves up but don't really have gun friends to turn to.  BTW, it was BGB that led me to Appleseed (by a circuitous route).

[slim]

Like many things in Appleseed, this is a very good idea - but will be difficult to actually carry out.

I distributed a half-dozen or so copies of Paul Revere's Ride last year and to a book, each was a rushed transaction. There are simply too many "official duties" going on in the course of the event to have the time necessary to operate a library as well. However, what's been suggested can be achieved, but gliming would have to be at the event and he'd have to "set up shop" somewhere after the event was over or at lunch or something of that nature. If he's not there, an Instructor would need to have the "library kit" with them... and we all know how that will work!

The fact is AS events are already PACKED with things to do. That ten or 15 minutes of "free time" during lunch or around the camp fire is nice - but that's all you get, and that's only if the attendees stick around.

What I've experienced is someone who's interested in a book (or books) displaying the capability to either purchase it on the spot or retain the information necessary to track down their own copy online or in a store. Not that I wouldn't hand out free copies of PRR or any other AS-related literature, but like slings, swivels, mats, etc., when you start loaning stuff out, the returns tend to dwindle over time. With books, that would be a good thing but it would be costly and folks don't seem to mind bearing the cost of acquiring their own stuff once they understand the necessity of ownership.

While I like the idea of a loaner program, I believe the funds would be better utilized by simply purchasing as many copies as possible and selling them, at cost, on an individual basis. "I have a few copies of PRR if anyone's interested. See me after the event and I'll pass on a copy, at cost." That frees us up from saying, "If you can get to an event with gliming, he has one you can borrow, in fact there's this whole loaner program... but I'm not sure which event he'll be attending next. You can contact him on the forum. If you're going to be on the forum you can just order one from the Appleseed store or on Amazon or E-Bay." It's a lot easier to simply say, "I've got an extra copy out in the Jeep. You can have it for $10." If the cost is an issue, I'll give it to them for free. "When you're done.... pass it on to someone else!"

I like the concept and the prepaid mailers are a great idea - but that's one more thing we'll need to account for and the whole "for posterity" thing just feels better when you give freely as opposed to asking for it to be returned. All that being said, I'm on board to help out. Let me know if there's something I can do. I have two hardbound copies to donate to the loaner library - unless I give them away at the next event!

[MeanStreaker]

One thing to keep in mind if anybody decides to sell books or anything else are the cautions I noted above.  I'm certainly no expert in this stuff, but when I started looking into Appleseed making books available for purchase, I ran into all kinds of things like taxes, 501(c)3 status, etc.  I have a little bit of knowledge from my work with OFCC and know that this can be a big pitfall, and I haven't had the time/resources to figure all that stuff out yet.  Slim hit the nail on the head that the event is jam packed without staff having to record purchases, track them, etc.

So if someone decides to sell books or other materials, it's done on your own with your individual responsibility to see if you need to look at the red tape involved... and the sale is not a part of Appleseed.

Don't you love lawyers?

[Hoover]

While I like the idea of a loaner program, I believe the funds would be better utilized by simply purchasing as many copies as possible and selling them, at cost, on an individual basis.

In my opinion, what matters most is providing resources to attendees in an effective way--however that can best be done.  If individual transactions fill the void, then that's great and I'd be equally supportive of helping that along.  I also very much agree with the concern over yet additional activities; so, this would necessarily take a "back seat" to all other Appleseed event needs.  For that reason, I was thinking about this in purely a trial basis to see what does and doesn't work.  I think a number of people had thought discussion at the IBC in person would be helpful.  I agree as some issues may be difficult to address in a forum.

[slim]

When you first hit the road, you'll take anything and everything you could possibly ever need. Over time, it dwindles down to almost nothing and only what you WILL need. Then, somewhere along the way you'll start packing special needs, or more appropriately, things that make the event special.

Spreading the 'Seed through distribution of literature is instantly gratifying because you physically handed them the information. You didn't make a list, you didn't have them write it down, you didn't hope they'd follow up - you made it happen. And that is awesome!

You're onto something here, gliming, and I'm looking forward to talking about it at the IBC. Whether we get a loaner program going or simply encourage our Ohio crew to carry a few extra copies with them, the mission is getting done, and that's big. In the mean time, if you keep an eye on E-Bay, you can find copies shipped to your door for right around $10.

[WY_Not]

Perhaps a better idea might be just having a copy of each laid out so they know what the book looks like? Then when we talk about it they have a visual of what to look for rather than just a name. Also gives them a chance thumb through it.

Sorta like the flags, visuals are good.

WY_Not

[SavageShootr]

Hi All,

Being nosy here. I saw the topic and was curious about the idea. (Please don't tell RW that I am here, she will  ) Thanks

WY_Not... we usually have them all laid out on the table during the entire weekend (unless it is bad weather). Then, during benediction, usually hold at least PRR up to show it. At all of the gun shows we "work", we have them laid out on the table as well.

Great discussion here. This is why Ohio is doing so well. Keep up the good work. 

SS

[V]

Rather than Javelin Press or Paladin Books or any modern "interpretation" I like to suggest that people read what the founders read, then we may understand their words better.

Another advantage is that many of these are available online for free and if you like them American Book Exchange is a great site which Fred originally put me onto.

DHF's PRR (dontcha love acronyms) is a great source of links to original texts in the notes and bibliography.

This is also a great introduction to What the Founders Read.

This is a more accessible and less daunting collection but less authentic. I especially recommend anything by Bastiat but that's just my bias showing.

Enjoy!

[Buckeye Marksman]

Attached is the reading list in pdf format.

Also, portions of some of the books are available for free on-line:

Paul Revere's Ride
Lexington and Concord, The Beginning of the War of the American Revolution
The battle of April 19, 1775: in Lexington, Concord, Lincoln, Arlington ...

Enjoy!

Buckeye Marksman