Project Appleseed

I'm modifying a 10/22 LTR to use a scope. Thing is, I don't want to give up my iron sights and I don't want to be fiddling around on the firing line attaching and detaching things.

Has anyone seen a 10/22 with both a scope and TSR100 (or TSR200) Tech-sights mounted on the top of the receiver simultaneously?

I've been debating grinding down the weaver rail that comes with the 10/22 so it can lay flush up against the rear sight. Then using that leftover 2-3" to mount a scope. This will be my first scope mounting, is this possible or asking for trouble?

Thanks,
bb

Interesting project. When I first saw the Tech sight I wondered why they didn't make the forward part a rail and have it be the full length of the  receiver for this very reason.

Things to consider: Proper turkey neck position requires the ocular bell of the scope (mine is a Burris incidentally  ) to be at the very rear of the receiver if not even a bit more forward. This puts the bell in the same spot as the Tech Sight (TSR 200). See-through scope mounts are high enough to use the Tech Sights while the scope is mounted above but the height difference is too great to be considered simultaneous. You will need an adjustable cheek rest like the Karstens.

The Tech Sight uses 2 of the 4 screw holes in the top of the receiver. I don't think 2 is enough to hold a scope, you would have to have more added or mill the front of the Tech Sight to accept 22 scope mounts.

The scope should be so far forward that the front scope mount cannot be installed as there is no receiver under it. This can be fixed by putting the two scope mounts on the rear section of the scope tube. It's only a 22 and scopes handle it fine.

Quick release scope mounts from Leupold or Warne work well for repeatable zero to take alot of the pain out of detaching and reattaching things on the fly.

The TAPCO Fussion stock for the 10/22 looks like it would allow a scout scope/ iron sight back up arrangement.

While I am no gunsmith, tinkering with and arranging different set-ups is a hobby of mine so don't let me discourage you or tick anyone off with my next statement. Part of the definition of LTR must be simplicity and some gadgets or techniques  may confuse or discourage people from building one so lets keep them simple or call them something else.

JoeZ

Good idea, but I've seen it tried it and the sights block to much of the scope reticle to be used effectively.  If you or anyone gets it work, please let me know how!    I'd love to do it on my own 10/22. 

---GF

Quote from: burrisbrow on February 27, 2010, 01:09:15 AMHas anyone seen a 10/22 with both a scope and TSR100 (or TSR200) Tech-sights mounted on the top of the receiver simultaneously?

OK, I'll bite...

     Why would you want/need both?

     From my perspective, the only reason you'd want a scope on your 'Seeder is because you cannot see the targets without it.  Like me.  And let's face it - the maximum effective range of the .22LR is around 75 to 100 yds.  If you can shoot the 210 with Tech Sights at 25m, you can certainly use the same Tech Sights to effectively master the maximum effective range of your 10/22.

     So what would be the advantage of having both Tech Sights and a scope on the same 10/22?

GF - Thanks for the warning to check if the reticle is being blocked.

JoeZ - You're absolutely right, too many modifications and it's no longer a LTR... However, all I'm doing is adding a scope to the recommended LTR w/ Tech-Sight setup, which isn't too far off.  In fact, with so many scopes on the firing line at Appleseeds, it seems like there should already be an authoritative answer somewhere. To me, learning on iron sights is one of the core elements of a full Appleseed experience. Having an established iron sight to scope migration path might convince people afraid of trying iron sights to invest in them at a minimum effort and cost.

Thanks for the warning about the ocular bell trying to be in the same spot as the rear sight. If that happens, then I'm out of luck. If it's not a problem, then maybe your idea of a TS with the forward part being a rail is a good solution. I could cut the sight shorter and weld it to a full length 10/22 rail. This would eliminate any 2 vs 4 screw issues. I'm going to take it down to a store sometime soon and mess around with possible scope/ring combos.

Excellent point about the maximum effective range.

Here's why I'm trying to work this out. I've got access to 4 LTRs (thanks to MumMollie). Soon I hope to become an IIT and be able to have these available for people to use. So, I'd like to make them low overhead loaner LTRs. Keeping in the spirit of Appleseed (and LTRs) this should mean learning fundamentals with iron sights. However, not everyone can have fun the entire weekend with iron sights---poor eye sight is the prime example. Also keeping in the spirit of LTRs the solution should be cheap, so for my situation (and anyone else who owns tech-sights and is considering a scope), if possible, it should avoid making the current tech-sights worthless.

Let's say that a scope and T-S could coexist, then with quick detach rings an instructor could very quickly modify a loaner LTR to use a scope, allowing them to spend more time teaching. Bonus that it allows the mount to be loctited down. My only concerns are that a first timer may get confused with multiple sighting systems, but that would be up to an experienced instructor to give an opinion on.

For instance, this April I'll be taking 3 people with me to an Appleseed. Knowing them, all three will want to learn on iron sights, but 1-2 will need scopes at some point for eye sight assistance. Whether they decide to do it on that Sunday or a later shoot, it still demonstrates the need for flexibility while maintaining the concept of the LTR.

-bb

BB...

I have never seen a 10/22 scope mount that allows for BUIS.  THat doesn't mean it can't be done, and if you manage it, please post your technique...

If your crew will be attending a FL event, let us know in advance and we'll get you whatever eq you need.  We have very fine iron and glassed LTR's available...

If you need lodging, let us know and we'll assist as best we can...

We look forward to seeing you as an IIT!

W

I have it on my 10/22. I have my tech sights and I added a "Scout Mount" with an "Extended Eye Relief" Scope.

The reason I have both is because my LTR is just that, a training rifle for my M1 GARAND. I want a scope on it (because I have difficulty seeing) but I always want the option to go to iron sights (what if my scope broke?). On the M1 Garand you have to have the forward mount for the endblock, on the 10/22 the forward scope (scout) mount allows me to keep my tech sights.

With a quick release for my scope, I can easily lend out my LTR with tech sights while volunteering, and then just pop my scope back on.

Is your LTR in a special stock that has a forward rail area like the tapco? I had thought of going for a scout setup, it looks like a elegant solution.

Unfortunately each of the LTRs has a different stock (I guess I'm being a hard egg here, sorry). Since they all have the same receiver, by limiting myself to a receiver based mount I was hoping to get a single solution that works for all/most 10/22 stocks.

Now that I write it out like that, maybe the general solution, albeit costly, is getting the tapco stocks with a forward mounted scope. (Unfortunately that won't work on my project LTR M1 carbine clone, sigh) I think I need to go to Gander Mt and see if they'll let me play legos with their goods on my gun. See if I can get a workable solution.

Mp P,

Would you be able to post pics of your set-up? I am interested in outfitting my LTR as well. I do presently have a Tapco stock with rail which may be a plus it sounds. Thanks to all for this thread .

Ratchett

Here's a side mount scope that I made for one of my 10/22 Garands. It's mounted to the side and you can use the scope or the iron sights similar to a M1C setup. It worked well for 25 yards. This is the only picture I have of it but you get the idea. The scope is close enough to the barrel you don't need a cheek pad. I made the mount out of angle iron and parkerized it.  I have taken this set apart and used it in a M1 carbine stock.

QuoteOK, I'll bite...

    Why would you want/need both?

    From my perspective, the only reason you'd want a scope on your 'Seeder is because you cannot see the targets without it.  Like me.  And let's face it - the maximum effective range of the .22LR is around 75 to 100 yds.  If you can shoot the 210 with Tech Sights at 25m, you can certainly use the same Tech Sights to effectively master the maximum effective range of your 10/22.

    So what would be the advantage of having both Tech Sights and a scope on the same 10/22?

QuoteTo me, learning on iron sights is one of the core elements of a full Appleseed experience.

This is one of the main reasons I would like both on my rifle.  The other as a backup.  At my first AS, a friend of mine's scope went completely (to ues highly technical terminology) kerflooy.  When you looked thru the scope, all you could see was evil blackness.  If we had not brought an extra rifle (with iron sights, BTW), this person would not have been able to shoot that day.  This is one reason why I wan BUIS, particularly on my Appleseed rifle.  These are just my thoughts/opinions and what I do with my rifles, but every person has to find out what works for them with their rifles. 

---GF

NoDak Spud used to make a 10-22 receiver that had that configuration.(scope rail and Iron sights)

I emailed them and they said they discontinued it because it didn't sell well.

Maybe more emails expressing interest would get them to bring it back or to produce a rail with their NDS-37 rear sight.

check them out here: http://www.nodakspud.com/NDS-22.htm