Project Appleseed

Hi everyone. I am new to the whole AQT thing and need some guidance. I have been searching through the forums here and am thoroughly confused on what targets to practice with.

Our range out here has spots to set targets at 10, 25, 50, 100 & 200 yards. I understand the qualifier is done at 25 meters which is a little more than 25 yards but I have seen posts that seem to use yards and meters referring to the same targets.

So let's say you have a target at 25 yards and are preparing for an AS, what would be the proper AQT target?

I must say that these forums are a little bit like drinking from a fire hose. 

First welcome to the forum. We are glad you are here.

Go over to this forum and download some of the targets there. http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=3710.0
The eighth one down is called one inch squares these are great practice
The seventh one down called  Appleseed AQT Targets 4 pages.pdf is pretty much an expanded version of the one you will shoot at an Appleseed Shoot.

Most of them are for 25 somethings. In the military they are strictly metric people so they will be at 25 meters. That would be 27 yards and one foot. Guess what though? If you can set them at 25 yards and hit them consistantly, the extra 7 feet won't be a problem. Practice with the 25 meter targets on the 25 yard line and learn to hit them and the difference will go un-noticed. THE most important thing to do is practice. Just the one inch squares at 25 yards are great. The goal is to be able to hit a 20" square at 500 yards. That scales down to a 1" square at 25 yards. When you put all ten rounds from a magazine in a one inch square at 25 yards, the rest will be pretty easy.

The above covers the targets, the other thing to practice is the positions. If you are young and limber they will be easy. If you are like me you would benefit from getting into the prone, sitting and even the standing positions a couple times a week in advance.

Got in a waterfight one time with fire hoses and I was on the nozzle, that was unpleasant. I hope you let yourself come up for air and enjoy the ocean of knowledge here you can swim in and learn from. You have time and lots of friendly people who want to help you achieve your rifleman patch.

Since most of the AS work will be done at 25 meters, I would suggest focussing on that distance. If you have no choice, go for 25 yards.

It sounds as though you haven't yet been to an AS, so first thing, sight your rifle in at 25 meters or yards. Make sure you are comfortable with the ergonomics of the gun: mag release, bolt release, whether mags drop free.  Get swivels put on your rifle if you don't have them and get a GI cotton sling, not a nylon sling. 

Since you haven't had the benefit of instruction, there won't be a whole lot to practice, but if you read Fred's guide to being a Rifleman, that might be at the blog link, that gives more guidance.  After that, the best thing to do is dry firing -- its cheap and builds muscle memory. 

Plan on being outdoors for two solid days, so you need some resiliency with respect to the weather -- that in itself can be a challenge.

I like the smallest targets for accuracy -- Aim Small, Miss Small, so I like 1 inch squares, especially when practicing positions.  Then just print out AQTs and practice them. For dry firing at home in a hallway, you can just put a tiny black square on a card and pin it to the wall.  You would be surprised how much that can achieve, especially when the weather is miserable outside.

Being at an Appleseed is way different from reading everything here... You will get individualized attention, so the learning curve is relatively short if you persist. If you want to practice ahead of time, you might try posting in the regional forums to find out if anyone lives nearby who can spend a little range time with you.

I have a similar set up at my local range.   My first Appleseed, I had my zero set at 25 yards.  On the redcoat target, I got the 100 and 200, but even though I shot nice little groups I missed the 300 and 400 because my elevation was off.  I since have bought a 100 foot measuring tape, and have used it to establish a true 25M zero.  I did this by using the 25 yard range, and then backing up to 25M.  I did this when no one else was at the range (for obvious safety reasons).  Once I had my 25M zero, I could then find how much I needed to adjust elevation for the 25 yard zero.  I find no difference in my AQT scores at 25 yards vs. 25 M.

If possible, try to connect with someone in your local area that is an experienced Appleseeder or active in NRA highpower shooting to help demonstrate the positions and sling for you.  I just could not learn this from a book.  If you can't find anyone in your area, I would reccommend the videos by Jim Owens http://jarheadtop.com/
They are very good at demonstrating good technique.

Like many others here, all my heavy lifting has been by dry firing.  I put small black dots on a board and set it up in my basement.  I have one dot for standing, one for sitting, and one for prone.  I practice getting into position, 6 steps of firing the shot, NPOA, mag changes, etc.  I do this 3-5 times per week for about 30 minutes.  It really helps, and is good exercise.

Please don't feel you have to qualify right away at Appleseed.  Most shooters don't.  While everyone wants you to shoot well, shooting well requires good technique, which needs to be taught, then practiced.  Appleseed teaches that technique.  Its then up to you to practice.

I hope this helps!

    It does help, bedford.

    Especially that "dryfire" 3-5 times a week, at home.

    We call that "doing your homework, before you come to an Appleseed".

    And I wish more people did it, as they'd arrive at their Appleseed with muscles and joints already 'adjusted' for prone, and be well ahead of those who haven't done it, and are suffering aches and pains, as a result.

    In other words, be smart, and do at home what you can do at home - get your body used to the positions, especially prone - so when you get to your Appleseed, you do what you should do at an Appleseed, which is learn to shoot. Right?

     

   The difference between shooting at 25 m and 25 yds is less than 1/2 moa. Anybody wanna tell me how much that is in inches?   So if you can group that small, you should worry. 

   In other words, quit sweating the small stuff and shoot.      JB

1/2 MOA is 1/8 inch @25 meters considering a .22 hole is about 1/4 inch at any distance we are talking about a difference of about 1/2 a bullet diameter unless you have a super calibrated eye you will never see the difference between tards and meters even out to 100 of whatever unit you choose.

Ok. Thanks for the info.

Yeah, I have been shooting most of my life but I never used MOA or any other nomenclature like that. I learned to shoot by my dad like my dad. (It has served me pretty well so far and I am a pretty fair shot but there is always room for improvement! 

I will try the squares at 25 yards. Thanks again.

Quote from: Devnull on January 25, 2009, 02:26:17 PM
Yeah, I have been shooting most of my life but I never used MOA or any other nomenclature like that. I learned to shoot by my dad like my dad. (It has served me pretty well so far and I am a pretty fair shot but there is always room for improvement! 

I will try the squares at 25 yards. Thanks again.

By all means, Sir, practice on the squares and then get thee to an Appleseed!  <

ASAP!

Folks, if you want to "see" some "stuff".  Put your sheet of 1" squares up at the range you want to shoot.

1.  load 10 rounds, shoot 5 at one square, then shoot 5 and a different square (are your groups in the same place on each square and just as tight?....if not, you've got work to do)

2.  load 2 rounds, shoot them at a 1" square, load 8 rounds and shoot them at the same square (are all of them in the same group or do you have a 2 shot group and and 8 shot group?...if so, you've got work to do).

3.  I've done this one time and it surprised me I did as good as I did (this was post RBC and lots more dry firing practice)...I shot 1 round at each square, then went back and worked by way through the squares again firing 1 round at each square and then do it one more time for a total of 3 rounds at each square but from different magazines.  Do you have nice little tight 3 shot groups in the same place on each square?....if not, you've got some work to do.

PS.  This type of work is fun.