Project Appleseed

Quote from: Junior Birdman on December 26, 2008, 07:55:39 PM
  I'm feeling lucky........come on 36......36, 36, 36.......come on 36!

Come on JB
Each page is 20 posts no matter how long each post is 
You must know this 


So here you go page  36 

  Izat the secret!?!?!?  OK! Now that I know THAT little tidbit! 

 

Quote from: Junior Birdman on December 27, 2008, 12:12:45 PM
  Izat the secret!?!?!?  OK! Now that I know THAT little tidbit! 

 

Kinda took the fun out of it, didn't it? 

An innovative Californian adds Tech Sights and M14 stock to his 10-22, creating a beautifully scaled LTR:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=1832699&posted=1#post1832699

Quote from: Junior Birdman on December 26, 2008, 07:55:39 PM
  I'm feeling lucky........come on 36......36, 36, 36.......come on 36!

JB, don't you have anything BETTER to do than to post this useless drivel? Enough already. Go over to ARFcom if you want to be a post whore.

   EEL, as to the Marlins, you'll need multiple mags, for sure. Just get rifles on the line. I've seen no problems with them. Will they allow B&D and multiple dryfire with empty mags? (Maybe I'm thinking about the Remingtons) (Some require a round in the mag to be able to actuate the bolt....Lawyers?)

    Come on 37..............

Quote from: Junior Birdman on January 05, 2009, 03:30:36 PM
   EEL, as to the Marlins, you'll need multiple mags, for sure. Just get rifles on the line. I've seen no problems with them. Will they allow B&D and multiple dryfire with empty mags? (Maybe I'm thinking about the Remingtons) (Some require a round in the mag to be able to actuate the bolt....Lawyers?)

    Come on 37..............

Yep.  The empty mag locks open the bolt, but there is a bolt lock lever that will allow you to manually close the bolt on an empty mag (or easily lock the bolt open) as needed.

I went to Marlin's web today and pulled up the owner's manual on the 795.  It says the gun will ONLY FIRE WITH THE MAGAZINE IN PLACE.  It seems to be a safety feature.  Maybe not unlike Hi-Powers and some S & W pistols.  I tried to contact them via phone with no luck.  If that is true, then they would not be a good choice for an LTR as the only way you could dry fire would be to insert a magazine.  And THAT ain't gonna happen at an AS!!     

I'll try them again tomorrow.  Tell 'em they're losin' a TON of business to Ruger and their 10/22.

When I get something solid from them, I'll post it.

EEL

Quote from: EEL on January 05, 2009, 08:50:35 PM
I went to Marlin's web today and pulled up the owner's manual on the 795.  It says the gun will ONLY FIRE WITH THE MAGAZINE IN PLACE.  It seems to be a safety feature.  Maybe not unlike Hi-Powers and some S & W pistols.  I tried to contact them via phone with no luck.  If that is true, then they would not be a good choice for an LTR as the only way you could dry fire would be to insert a magazine.  And THAT ain't gonna happen at an AS!!     

I'll try them again tomorrow.  Tell 'em they're losin' a TON of business to Ruger and their 10/22.

When I get something solid from them, I'll post it.

EEL

Uh... you lost me.  Nothing wrong with inserting a mag during ball and dummy. 

Roger that.  I mean dry fire during the prep period.  The Guy really stresses to use the prep time to dry fire, dry fire, dry fire.  If a mag MUST be in to dry fire during prep period    .........Don't think we even want to go there!!!!!!

Quote from: EEL on January 05, 2009, 09:03:26 PM
Roger that.  I mean dry fire during the prep period.  The Guy really stresses to use the prep time to dry fire, dry fire, dry fire.  If a mag MUST be in to dry fire during prep period    .........Don't think we even want to go there!!!!!!

Absolutely.

However, you can still practice the six steps and dry fire without cocking the action, but the trigger pull will be different.

This isn't all that bad as I find it sometimes easier to see if I'm influencing the rifle during my trigger squeeze without the hammer actually dropping.  Try it, you might be surprised.

Can't resist it....

If a tree falls in the forest an no one is there to hear it, did it really make any noise?

If no hammer is released by the trigger pull, is it really dry firing?

<

Er, um... that would be simulated dry-firing... I think. 

I may be strange, but it works for me anyway.

Try it.  You may be strange, too. 

Ummmmmm....I had an older Marlin795 and I could dry fire with the mag dropped....It must be a new feature......I'll find out soon enough

Quote from: MeanStreaker on November 06, 2008, 10:15:03 PM
Hey everyone, based on previous posts in this thread, I ordered a couple of these DPMS Rear Sight Windage Knobs since my LTRs will probably be passed around a lot and it would be nice to easily zero for different shooters.

I put together various bits of advice from different sources and came up with a complicated but surefire method using Dremel drill bits as pin punches:

1. Secure windage drum to sight with a padded vise-grip pliers to keep parts from jumping off
2. Use 3/64" drill bit shaft (broke off the bit end) to drive out roll pin
3. Placed rifle over large tray to catch parts and took off piers - drum, washer and detent pin came off but spring stayed in detent pin hole
4. Line up hole in bolt parallel with barrel and note which way hole through new knob goes
5. With rifle left side up, place spring in hole and set detent pin on spring, balanced in correct position
6. Set washer & knob over bolt and push down to push detent back into detent hole
7. Secure with 1/32" dill bit through hole to line everything up and put vise grip pliers back on
8. Slide roll pin over 1/32" dril bit and tap back in using 3/64" drill shaft
9. Pull out 1/32" drill bit and use 3/64" to check roll pin is centered
10. Take off pliers

The knob is very tight and can't be turned easily by hand, so maybe the washer isn't needed?

Old Dog,
Your post on 5 Jan regarding the hammer fall and dry firing caused me to recall a really dumb day at the range last fall.

I thought, since it was such a long drive, I'd take all of my long guns - and I did. Now shooting an M-1, an M-1 Carbine, two Lee-Enfields, a CAR-15, a Mini-14, and three .22s was fun, but when I got home I had to clean them all!

Here's the dumb part. I started from the largest caliber and worked down to my grandfather's Winchester Model 90 pump gun in .22 short (Gramps got it when he was about 10 in 1908 and gave it to me 50 years later). Since I was wearing both ear plugs and ear muffs, when I squeezed the first round I didn't hear it fire. Yet when I looked just off my mat there was a brand new .22 short brass laying in the grass. I glassed the target and found the hole at about 7 o'clock. So, I just figured I had on MORE than enough hearing protection for a .22 short. I fired four more rounds and glassed the target - only two new holes. I was a little disappointed. Fired five more and glassed the target - no new holes. Fired the last five, glassed the target, no new holes. I was furious. Went down range and pulled my target - yep, three holes only. I got even more furious. Packed up my guns, rolled up my mat, and to my chagrin, found 12 unfired rounds and three fired cases next to my mat. I had broken the firing pin and the recoil and noise of a .22 short is so "bad" that I was loading, squeezing, ejecting, etc and not firing a round. Ah, life in the country...

just chiming in to account for one more LTR in the new england area. file photo attached.

by the way, prices are going up. the 10/22RB cost me $225 (well, ok, its new england), and the TSR200 tech sights with A1 adjustment tool, courtesy of EEL, were another $70.

depending how well i do with this LTR at my first appleseed, i will consider bedding the action and/or the barrel, which is probably just a few more bucks. i intend to qualify with this and not my MBR so that when i bring someone along next time, they can't complain that "it's the rifle." 

$0.02: were i to build a second LTR, i would probably go with the marlin 60. not that the marlin is necessarily better, or cheaper, or anything, but given the cost of "going ruger," i would rather experiment with a different rifle, and develop the LTR concept.

I hope you meant to say the Marlin 795.  It is mag fed.  The Marlin 60 is a tube job.

Don't want to see you order the wrong rifle one day.

EEL

hmm.. possibly some used car salesmen at the local gun store. i'll spend some time on marlin's website.

Well, my son is signed up for March at Evansville Indiana, I will shoot in April at Cloverdale I hope. I worked over my 10/22 this week. I shortened the breechface .025 to tighten up the chamber, checked with 8 different types ammo to make certain I didn't go too far. Polished the breechblock, chamfered the rear of the breechblock and the hammer face. Turned a piller and bedded the receiver. Did a minor trigger job, tested safe, not too light, about 4.5 lbs. Finally, I added a sling and repainted the receiver. We will see how much improvement I made in a day or two, I have eight different boxes of 22LR to test.

Sights... I want to install Williams sights, I know them, I trust them. My concern is the height of the tech sights. I can't understand why they are so tall. However I am thinking that as this rifle will be a loaner the tech sights are certainly far easier to adjust while at the line, and other instructors will be familiar with them.

Are the Tech sights the best bet? Are they usable for a non-scope shooting rifleman like me?

DAve

   Come on 37...............

Quote from: Junior Birdman on February 08, 2009, 08:02:08 AM
   Come on 37...............

That must have made your day, JB. 

He DID it!!! ^5 JB

Hey Jake, I have no experience with the Williams sights. If you prefer them they should be what you put on your rifle. It sounds like you are doing a lot of work. It is good to find out which ammo your Rifle likes.
I have tech-sights on my Granddaughters 10-22 and she likes them. They are really easy to adjust and, as you said, most of the Instructors are familiar with them.



I was wondering about something else. I have 2 10-22's with tech-sights and I was thinking about putting a scope on the 3rd. Does anyone have any thoughts on that? Is there any particular scope that is good for what we do at Appleseed?

Thanks.
~SS

SavageShootr,

I'm real partial to Leupold scopes of any model. I've got 2 LTR's w/ tech-sights and one with a Leupold 4xrimfire for hunting or Appleseeder's with less than perfect vision and I love it!! They're not cheap by any stretch but they're crystal clear!!

Fireman

Thanks Fireman Ed. I have a Leupold scope on my Savage. It does get the job done. Though I don't think it is specific to rimfire. I will have to check that out.

~SS

I'm looking to add a scope to an LTR.

This will be my first scope purchase so I'm climbing the learning curve and trying to avoid a newbie mistake.

Is it important to have an Adjustable Objective to adjust for Parallax error when shooting the AQT at 25yards. Most Rimfire scopes are set for longer distances. What happens when you shoot within the adjusted  difference? The one inch square is small enough without having to compensate for the scopes optical error.

I'm choosing between a 4x 32mm and a 3-9x 40mm. I suspect that either one would work fine. The question of AO always seems to come up when comparing the two.

Thank's  in advance to the Appleseed Community for it's counsel.

I don't think an AO is necessary.  It is for removing parallex (sp) at longer ranges.  I use a tasco 4 X 32 on my LTR.  As you will probably set it for 25 yrds / meters and leave it, I wouldn't spend a ton on glass.  Now if you intend on tricking out your LTR (thumbhole stock, heavy free floated barrel, match firing control etc) and use high $$$ ammo to shoot asprin at 100 yards, then your glass should match OR exceed the cost of your rifle.

One thing with glass...Usually you get what you pay for.

My thoughts, that's all.

EEL

I would also add to EEL's reccomendation...

If you do go cheap, go with the fixed power. I constantly see folks (including my son Wetfoot) using their scopes as spotting scopes. At first they insist on using the highest power which then screws with their heads because they can easily see their misses, and then once you talk them into using the lowest power, they start cranking it up to see their shot string and then backing it back down to shoot the next string. Sure enough, by the time they are really close to hit rifleman, and bam, their zero has shifted, and they have nice, though off centered groups and they miss the brass ring flying by them.

A scope is a good idea for older eyes; we just can't see the front sight as clearly as we should.  I've found lower power scopes (or lower power settings on variables) to be more useful for 25 meter shooting.  At higher powers wobble is more visible (and distracting), the shooter is looking at the target rather than the crosshairs, and eye relief can be more critical.  Ideally, scopes are mounted far enough forward so the shooter has a full, clear presentation with no dark ring boundary ring.  In practice, most 22's have a fairly short receiver and, for me, the scope can't be mounted far enough forward.  In this situation, I simply use the scope as I would a peep sight: I center the crosshairs in the dark ring and find and maintain a consistent check weld to keep them there.  The consistent check weld also elminates any parallax error.   

   Ditto the old eyes, Ash. I have "Offset" mounts on the squirrel gun, it allows the scope to go pretty far forward.

   Just remember folks that unlike iron sights, you can't vary the eye relief for the scopes. What we see at Appleseeds is folks showing up with their favorite squirrel gun which has the scope set for standing (Or more likely, sitting at a bench! You know I always take a bench in the woods when I hunt!) so the first time they drop to prone the scope is impossible to use due to the shortened eye relief.

   It is suggested that you set the scope up for use in prone because you can more easily adjust cheek weld forward to make eye relief in sitting or standing than you can prone.  AO/ parralax doesn't seem to be a factor. 

   Also remember that every person you loan this thing out to will twist the knobs to suit them so it needs to have easy to use adjustments. That is the reason we like the Tech Sights so much. My LTR (Tech Sights) has been through too many shooters to count and they all adjust the sights.

  I don't even touch them before loaning it out because they SHOULD have to adjust them so they learn how to! In fact, I don't think I'd recommend more than getting the thing within and inch or two before loaning it out. That way the shooter gets to learn how to zero a rifle. Not much value in handing a shooter a rifle that YOU zeroed.

  As you recall, we don't care where the rounds hit for the first half of the day anyway because we're looking for tightening groups. Once they get the groups shrunk we allow them to adjust to the center of the square.

  You can spend really big bucks and a lot of time to make a hair splitting rifle, but truth is that the off the rack 10/22 from Wal Mart will shoot much tighter than 90% of the shooters out there and involves no tuning or extra money unless you want to mount sights or optics. JB