News:

Want Appleseed to grow and fill our firing lines?  We need help with advertising, social media, graphics design, and administrative tasks.  An hour of time spent at this level can have a huge impact.  You can make a difference!  Send a Personal Message to Cleveland.

Main Menu

Powder weight in .223

Started by slim, December 31, 2008, 05:58:57 AM

Previous topic - Next topic
Print
Go Down Pages1
User actions

slim

December 31, 2008, 05:58:57 AM
I have a buddy who's a big muzzle loader guy and he just made the jump to an AR after some "AS-inspired" prodding from yours truly.

Anyway, I was going on and on about the 55gr. vs. 62gr. and why he should use one or the other and he asked, "so how much powder is in the case? You're talking about the bullet weight. What's the powder weigh?"

I don't know. I've never known and I don't think I've ever even considered it. But, from this guy, it makes perfect sense and was a good question.

Anyone know the answer?

(Just for the record, he bought a bunch of the newer 55gr. Wolf Military Classic. Anyone know the weight of that one? How about the 193,855,etc.?)

wcmartin1

#1
December 31, 2008, 08:30:53 AM
Quote from: slim on December 31, 2008, 05:58:57 AM
Anyway, I was going on and on about the 55gr. vs. 62gr. and why he should use one or the other and he asked, "so how much powder is in the case? You're talking about the bullet weight. What's the powder weigh?"

The answer is there is no answer.  There is a starting load and a max load for each bullet/brass/powder/primer/rifle combination.  Each rifle is different and a safe load in one may be over pressure in another.

For example (I assume no liability.  Use this information at your own risk.) with a 55 grain bullet using Reloader 15 the range could be from 25 - 28 grains.

The trick is to start low and work your way up until you find the "sweet spot" that your rifle likes with that particular combination.  For 5.56 I usually increase my charges in .2 grain increments while working up towards the max load while looking for accuracy and watching for pressure signs (flattened primer, hard extraction, etc.).  Don't just keep adding powder until you pierce a primer or worse.

If you don't find an accurate load with a particular combination, you need to change something in the equation and start over.

Bottom line - get some load data from several reputable sources, do some research, start low, and work your way up slowly.
"Unhappy it is, though, to reflect that a brother's sword has been sheathed in a brother's breast and that the once-happy and peaceful plains of America are either to be drenched with blood or inhabited by a race of slaves.  Sad alternative!  But can a virtuous man hesitate in his choice?" - George Washington - from a letter to a close friend after the events of April 19, 1775

"There is no nation on earth powerful enough to accomplish our (the United States) overthrow.  Our destruction, should it come at all, will be from another quarter.  From the inattention of the people to the concerns of their government, from their carelessness and negligence, I must confess that I do apprehend some danger.  I fear that they may place too implicit a confidence in their public servants, and fail properly to scrutinize their conduct; that in this way they may be made the dupes of designing men, and become the instruments of their own undoing." - Daniel Webster, June 1, 1837

Flathead

#2
December 31, 2008, 05:54:38 PM
Go to any of the powder websites and look up the info there. Every one has their favorite brand, so look at a few and reap all the free info that you can. With the AR platform that I shoot, it likes the loads up about 10% above the minimum or starting load. Any time you change one component
(primer, projectile, powder) start from the lower charges and slowly work up.

Old Dog

#3
December 31, 2008, 06:45:32 PM
Only very rarely is the "max" load the most accurate load.  Usually the most accurate load is a couple hundred feet per second below the fastest load.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

—Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

VaWolf

#4
December 31, 2008, 08:45:57 PM
Make sure your muzzleloading friend is not going to try to use black powder or Pyrodex or other black powder substitute for loading in his AR. It is very corrosive and the burn rate is way too fast. I have had good luck with Accurate arms 2230 and Herculese H322. I have heard good things about Varget but have not tried any yet. I would go with the heavier bullets for accuracy because the AR usually has tight twist rifling ( 1 in 7 inch). Follow the advice above in working up the load to find the sweet spot.   Tommy
NPOA isn't everything, it's the only thing.

KodyJaret

#5
December 31, 2008, 11:42:16 PM
If your friend is curious as to how much powder he might find in a factory cartridge,,,ocourse it would vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, bullet etc.,,,but regards the common bullet weight of 55grn. to 62 grn. if you pulled a bullet or bullets, and weighed out the charges,,,I would venture to guess you would find an average of 25-27 grns. of an "appropriate" powder.

The arsenals have little interest in MOA regards service ammunition. Safe, reliable, consistent function to produce MinuteOfOpponent from 0-600m is more like it.

Mudcat

#6
January 01, 2009, 02:21:47 AM
I use 24.5 grns of Benchmark under a 60 V-max bullet for coyote hunting. I too have heard good things about the Varget powder but have yet to try any.
The powder used in the govt issue stuff is available from several different people who pull down unissued ammo to sell the individual componets. Some deals can be had buying these consumables too.
"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
--George Washington

Oohrah

#7
January 03, 2009, 05:43:26 AM
Bullet weights are the same for each group of bullet weights.   Powders
weights will vary from each manufacturer or in the case of reloading, the
type, and brand of the powder used.   Suggest you start with a loading
manual, and treat it like a Bible :)

Tackleberry

#8
January 03, 2009, 01:49:31 PM
Quote from: slim on December 31, 2008, 05:58:57 AM
I have a buddy who's a big muzzle loader guy and he just made the jump to an AR after some "AS-inspired" prodding from yours truly.

Anyway, I was going on and on about the 55gr. vs. 62gr. and why he should use one or the other and he asked, "so how much powder is in the case? You're talking about the bullet weight. What's the powder weigh?"

I don't know. I've never known and I don't think I've ever even considered it. But, from this guy, it makes perfect sense and was a good question.

Anyone know the answer?

(Just for the record, he bought a bunch of the newer 55gr. Wolf Military Classic. Anyone know the weight of that one? How about the 193,855,etc.?)


On 62 grain FMJ M855 bullets, I use 23.0 grains of IMR 4895.

slim

#9
January 16, 2009, 10:22:11 PM
Thanks for all the replies, guys.

I've been having the "Your AR will be a lot more effective than your muzzle loader out past, oh, say, 500 yds." conversation lately. He's still holding that muzzle loader pretty tightly, but the AR is getting more comfortable each day.

asminuteman

#10
April 24, 2009, 02:59:18 PM Last Edit: May 15, 2012, 09:10:47 PM by asminuteman
.
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." ~ Thomas Paine

"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."~ Thomas Paine

I know of no way to judge the future, then by the past. -Thomas Paine

Nickle

#11
April 25, 2009, 08:24:22 PM
Here's a link to where the US Mil Spec information is:

http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=267.0
They have men amongst them who know very well what they are about, having been employed as Rangers against the Indians and Canadians and this country being much covered with wood, and hilly, is very advantageous for their method of fighting. . . . ".  Lord Percy

Sounds like New Englanders to me.

asminuteman

#12
April 25, 2009, 09:13:25 PM Last Edit: May 15, 2012, 09:10:35 PM by asminuteman
.
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." ~ Thomas Paine

"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."~ Thomas Paine

I know of no way to judge the future, then by the past. -Thomas Paine

Nickle

#13
April 26, 2009, 01:25:56 AM
Quote from: asminuteman on April 25, 2009, 09:13:25 PM
Nickle, Thanks !always wanted to compare tables ken

(edit) by the way noting "old" post 07.....308? info....got 06 up the whazoooo

Remember, that's the US Army that made that pub that came from.

7.62 means .308, .30 Cal is .30-06.
They have men amongst them who know very well what they are about, having been employed as Rangers against the Indians and Canadians and this country being much covered with wood, and hilly, is very advantageous for their method of fighting. . . . ".  Lord Percy

Sounds like New Englanders to me.

asminuteman

#14
April 26, 2009, 03:09:34 PM Last Edit: May 15, 2012, 09:10:19 PM by asminuteman
.
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." ~ Thomas Paine

"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."~ Thomas Paine

I know of no way to judge the future, then by the past. -Thomas Paine

douglas34474

#15
April 26, 2009, 06:28:00 PM
slim,

You might be surprised at what an old smoke pole can do. ;D

I'm put round balls through stuff that 5.56 just bounced off.

Doug
Print
Go Up Pages1
User actions