Project Appleseed

 I have a question and I think those of you who have done and or taught a pistol clinic or two may have valuable experience. The Appleseed pistol clinic is a lot of rounds in a short time under controlled conditions so if a given gun has poor reliability it will be known by the end of the class.

I've been looking at new 22 pistols. I'm not really looking for a purely target use gun, nor am I considering a 22lr "EDC" gun. Really what I'm after is a "Jack of all trades" modern, recreational shooting 22 that's reliable, accurate and hopefully not too expensive. Also, if and when a pistol clinic comes up near by I'd like to take one and will probably do it twice, first time with a 22.

 Taurus and Keltec both have pistols out (TX22 and P17 respectively) that have great reviews online. But both companies have had their issues. I don't want to discount them just because they are companirs that makes a lot of guns geared towards lower price points but I also can't afford to leap blindly.

So have you seen either of those pistols in classes? How did they perform?

Thanks for any help you may give.

I have experience with an older TX-22 model and various Ruger MK series rimfire pistols and think both are up to task for Appleseed Pistol Clinics.

They are both fun to plink with.

I always hear good about the Buckmark also but have never owned one.

The TX22 Competition is a very nice, reliable, and affordable pistol, especially with a red dot (doesn't move with the slide). Perfect for PQTs. A few Maryland instructors have them now. The other TX22s are mostly solid, but I like the Competition the best.

Ruger Mk4s/22/45s, Browning Buckmarks, S&W Victories are also popular rimfire pistols on the line and work great. Haven't seen the Keltec to be honest.

A few of us have Nelson Custom 22LR conversion kits for our 1911s and those run extremely well too. Other conversion kits have created reliability issues.

I have a S&W M&P22 Compact that I really like. GREAT little suppressor host. I've put one of the Vortex red dots on it. I feel like ØØ8. 

If you don't mind slightly complicated cleaning, you don't need to look at a modern .22.
Any Ruger Mark I through Mark III is a very capable pistol, target or bull barrel, iron sight or red dot. One very simple Volquartsen magazine release upgrade makes mag changes as fast as any other pistol on the market.

A Browning Buckmark, in any configuration is a remarkably reliable pistol.

I can also vouch for the S&W Victory, crazy accurate (sight or dot) and incredibly easy to clean.

A Browning Buckmark is a great Appleseed pistol. Magazines eject clean, nice trigger, long sight radius. The basic Camper model is a fine choice but you have many models available.

If you want to add an optic, Outer Impact sells a nice mounting plate.

Only two things to watch are top two screws loosening over time, use blue threadlock, and after heavy use, sometimes the injector pin needs to be repositioned to the upper right side of its "window".

Rangerat67

I like my Glock 17 with an Advantage Arms 22LR upper... But I've also had a lot of fun renting the buckmark they have at my local range.

Can you dry fire the Buckmark?

According to my book, which is over a decade old, Browning did not recommend dry fire with a Buckmark. Again, this was an OLD book, your mileage may vary.

Any experience with the Glock 44? Are pistol clinics all fired from standing? Is prone pistol even a thing? Are pistol clinics ~400-450 rounds total like 25M clinics?

I have seen Glock 44s do just fine on the line. All standing and that round count is probably safe. PQTs and pistol drills tend to be faster so round counts can be that high. Some classes might be more like 300-400 max.

My Buckmark has been phenomenal. See if you can rent one at an indoor range and give one a ride.

If you can't dryfire the buckmark, I don't recommend it for Appleseed Pistol clinics, we do a lot of dry fire.

LDB415:

Appleseed PQT is all about basic marksmanship with a pistol. All shooting is done from standing position: no moving around. Targets are at 7 yards.

That said, prone pistol shooting is very much a thing with other organizations. I've had a lot of fun so far this summer here in South Dakota shooting my SW Victory in a KD course of fire (cof). I place the 200 yard Appleseed KD target at 25, 50, 75, and 100 yards. Then shoot the cof standing, standing, prone, prone respectively. The first time I did it I tried to shoot at 50 from the seated position while observing the 55 second time limit and a mag change! I found it too difficult and it felt borderline unsafe, like I might of sweep parts of my legs with the muzzle during the reload. And it was not stable at all trying to muscle my knees up so I could rest my arms across them. Standing at 50 for me is better. It's much easier and more accurate than shooting seated.

Prone at 75 and 100 is not bad at all. It is stable and safe. Hitting consistently in the black is all about what we teach in our clinics: stable position, the six steps and npoa. Throw in some IMC to get your come ups and you're there!  I've been using CCI Mini mag round nose ammo and my scores are in the low to mid 40s out of 50.

For what it's worth my SW has open sights, but I replaced the factory open sights with a front and rear pair that are good for precision target work: A Tech Sight front sight from a Marlin 795 and a Thompson Center Contender rear sight. I'll take a pic of it and send later.

Gus

Here's a pic of my SW Victory

Gus

Quote from: Gus on June 03, 2026, 02:33:40 PMHere's a pic of my SW Victory

Gus

That's super nice! Sights look like they are phenomenal. 

Nice looking pistol and those sights are really cool. I might have to look into a modifiable pistol of some sort for this. I was going to use my Glock 44 as I have a lot of mags for it. But they'll sell them for something else too.

Beware of the modifiable pistol. Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your credit card.

Quote from: Mike AKA Bandaid on June 03, 2026, 02:38:40 PM

Quote from: Gus on June 03, 2026, 02:33:40 PMHere's a pic of my SW Victory

Gus

That's super nice! Sights look like they are phenomenal. 

The sights have been all I could have hoped for: crisp sight picture and repeatability. I did replace to front sight post the other day. The tech sights front post tapers up to a rather fine tip. I installed an AR style square post and it is MUCH better. I used it today in a 100 yard KD (using our 200 yard KD target) and scored a 49x50. Will try to send some pictures.

Gus

Here are a couple pictures from today. One is the sight picture from my pistol with the square post in there. Sharp and crisp make a WORLD OF DIFFERENCE (!) when doing precision pistol work.

The target as you can see is a 200 yard Rimfire KD target. But I place it at 25,50,75 and 100 yards. I shoot it Standing, Standing, Prone, and Prone. I shoot it with the Appleseed standards of times and mag changes for stages 1,2,3&4. I find stage three to be the most challenging. Today I managed a good score.

While I am having a lot of fun working on my skill sets this summer I cannot wait until August when I get back to instruction duty up in Alaska at the centerfire KD in Talkeetna!

Gus

Quote from: Zorak on June 03, 2026, 09:23:15 PMBeware of the modifiable pistol. Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your credit card.

No! Modify. Or modify not. There is no credit limit.

There is no credit card. There's money or there isn't. If only I'd been born rich instead of so good looking, there'd be more money to play with.

I got a couple of the Taurus TX22's.  Both got fouling after about 100 rounds and keyholed.  It's a known issue with their 1st gen and Taurus took care of me.  I haven't shot them much since I got new barrels (I've become red dot dependent).  I do keep them as loaners and might be able to tell you more after this weekend's shoot.

If you want to earn your Pistoleer patch, look for an EDC that holds 10 rounds.  Our 1st stage of the PQT is 2 hands, rapid fire, 10 seconds, 1 mag.  You can do it with 2, it'll just be more of a challenge. 

We shoot close to 600 rounds in a 2-day Pistolseed.

Quote from: Gus on July 06, 2026, 11:17:28 PMHere are a couple pictures from today. One is the sight picture from my pistol with the square post in there. Sharp and crisp make a WORLD OF DIFFERENCE (!) when doing precision pistol work.

The target as you can see is a 200 yard Rimfire KD target. But I place it at 25,50,75 and 100 yards. I shoot it Standing, Standing, Prone, and Prone. I shoot it with the Appleseed standards of times and mag changes for stages 1,2,3&4. I find stage three to be the most challenging. Today I managed a good score.

While I am having a lot of fun working on my skill sets this summer I cannot wait until August when I get back to instruction duty up in Alaska at the centerfire KD in Talkeetna!

Gus

This is amazing to me. I've never heard of shooting pistols in prone, but it makes sense there are techniques for that. The main amazing thing is I've also never thought you could accurately shoot a pistol 100 yards!

Avoid the Keltec P17. It doesn't like dryfire plus it's small.

Quote from: jlwilliams on May 23, 2026, 10:49:50 AMI have a question and I think those of you who have done and or taught a pistol clinic or two may have valuable experience. The Appleseed pistol clinic is a lot of rounds in a short time under controlled conditions so if a given gun has poor reliability it will be known by the end of the class.

I've been looking at new 22 pistols. I'm not really looking for a purely target use gun, nor am I considering a 22lr "EDC" gun. Really what I'm after is a "Jack of all trades" modern, recreational shooting 22 that's reliable, accurate and hopefully not too expensive. Also, if and when a pistol clinic comes up near by I'd like to take one and will probably do it twice, first time with a 22.

 Taurus and Keltec both have pistols out (TX22 and P17 respectively) that have great reviews online. But both companies have had their issues. I don't want to discount them just because they are companirs that makes a lot of guns geared towards lower price points but I also can't afford to leap blindly.

So have you seen either of those pistols in classes? How did they perform?

Thanks for any help you may give.

One thing that I would look at with any pistol in your consideration is the ability to dry fire it.  I went through this recently, you can look at all of the manufacturer's website and review the manuals.  It will tell you definitively whether or not the pistol meets this criteria, many manufacturer's tell you not to dry fire their rimfire pistols.

Another consideration is if you plan on any modifications with after market parts, I'd suggest looking into what is available for the pistols that you are considering. 

Just my 2 cents.

I understood the Pistolseed is all shot standing and 7 yards. Did I misunderstand? I know positions are probably smarter but hoping for all standing.

Quote from: LDB415 on July 07, 2026, 04:07:24 PMI understood the Pistolseed is all shot standing and 7 yards. Did I misunderstand? I know positions are probably smarter but hoping for all standing.

You understood correctly. Gus is not shooting the Pistolseed course of fire here.

Quote from: Zorak on June 03, 2026, 09:23:15 PMBeware of the modifiable pistol. Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your credit card.

May as well just buy a Volquartsen to start with. It's modifiable. But you wouldn't want to.

I like the TandemKross bolt halo more than the Volquartsen plunger grip, so actually...