Project Appleseed

So in one of my acquiring phases 12-14 years ago it turns out I have two of them. One is a BCM complete rifle I didn't remember. The other is imaginary, i.e. that was when do-it-yourself was a big thing and I got the blanks and with the help of a super nice forum member on one of my forums back then I finished them, one for grandsons and one for me.

I just went to get mine out thinking I'd get a laugh by putting up a photo of a bare frame and saying my rifle still needed a part or two to be finished. I couldn't find it where I knew I'd left it. Then I checked a long stashed away case that was supposed to be empty awaiting guns and found the BCM and mine. I got it finished and completed. It has a Troy upper. Not sure of the lower parts.

So question one, how are Troy uppers rated? I suspect the complete BCM is probably a better rifle but thought it would be fun doing it on "my" rifle. I tried that nose on the charging handle thing using the fold up sights on it. Very strange and not very natural feeling. Maybe it works better with a scope.

And 400 yards? I'm still working on that idea. I can barely see that far. Guess that's why I wouldn't be doing it with iron sights. 400 yards. I may be more of a 400 feet kind of guy.

Quote from: LDB415 on January 09, 2026, 12:55:07 PMSo question one, how are Troy uppers rated?

Are you asking about the quality of the upper? Or the caliber(from the other discussion on .223wylde)

From my understanding, which may not be worth much, most uppers and lowers come from a limited number of manufacturers and smaller companies then slap their branding on them. There may be a forge marking (keyhole,triangle,square,etc) that you can use to id the source.

Additionally in my understanding of the physics and magic involved, the barrel quality will be more closely tied to the accuracy. If the chamber and bore are quality and true, you should be fine. Testing is the best way to know for sure. I've heard plenty of stories of high end equipment performing worse then the bargain bin.

I'm wondering if Troy are generally considered not bad (as in the fairly decent meaning of the phrase) or more meh. Yes, after my 25M rimfire Appleseed I'll take it out and see what it does at 100 yards, my only option locally. I'll have to get it scoped by then too. So looking for scope suggestions too.

I would say that with today's manufacturing any AR will work at a KD. Same with ammo. Troy is on the higher end of the AR line up. It will work great for an KD.

Scopes you have a lot of options. There are some great option in the Appleseed Store
https://store.rwvaappleseed.com/centerfire-scopes.html

You don't need a lot of magnification, but it depends on your preference.

MAHA

Troy makes good stuff and so does BCM. both are of good quality. 

I knew BCM was considered a class act but wasn't certain on Troy. Confirmations make me feel better anyway. I'd like to know the specs on them though. I'll look for identifying markings and then inquire with the companies.

Quote from: LDB415 on January 10, 2026, 11:13:10 AMI knew BCM was considered a class act but wasn't certain on Troy. Confirmations make me feel better anyway. I'd like to know the specs on them though. I'll look for identifying markings and then inquire with the companies.

Take it out and get rounds on paper.
How it performs tells you everything you need to know.

Quote from: eaglescouter on January 10, 2026, 02:11:38 PMHow it performs tells you everything you need to know.

Yup. I've got a Palmetto cheapo that rocks. With decent ammo just a hair over 1.25 moa.

I've sent messages to both BCM and Troy inquiring about the rifle and upper respectively. I've got to figure out sights. The Troy has flip up sights, the BCM nothing. I know, guys have shot these at hundreds of yards with nothing more than the Troy sights. But I presume after a lot of training and a LOT of practice, neither of which I have.

I also am not certain what ammo to use. I believe the .223/5.56 both work fine in a .223 Wylde chamber. I believe .223 works in a 5.56 chamber but not ideally due to being a little under-sized. And I believe 5.56 is ill-advised in a .223 chamber due to being a little over-sized. But other than the .223 Wylde shooting anything all the rest could be erroneous.

So I think I'm in limbo awaiting replies from the two companies.

PSA is a great place to start, very budget friendly and sights are not hard to come by, its just a matter of how fancy and how much you want to spend.  IF you are near a military post, go roam the surplus stores, you find some GI rear sights for a right price. THe MAGPUL BUIS sights are reasonably priced. so many options to choose from its hard to go wrong.

Quote from: LDB415 on January 10, 2026, 03:56:36 PMI've sent messages to both BCM and Troy inquiring about the rifle and upper respectively. I've got to figure out sights. The Troy has flip up sights, the BCM nothing. I know, guys have shot these at hundreds of yards with nothing more than the Troy sights. But I presume after a lot of training and a LOT of practice, neither of which I have.

I also am not certain what ammo to use. I believe the .223/5.56 both work fine in a .223 Wylde chamber. I believe .223 works in a 5.56 chamber but not ideally due to being a little under-sized. And I believe 5.56 is ill-advised in a .223 chamber due to being a little over-sized. But other than the .223 Wylde shooting anything all the rest could be erroneous.

So I think I'm in limbo awaiting replies from the two companies.

Kick your own butt and get out of limbo.  This is a trap of your own making and you can solve it by:
1.  Get off the computer.
2.  Go to the range and test the performance of your equipment.
3.  Profit.  (humor)

There is nothing special or unique about an AR Upper, regardless of the brand or markings.  I care about the chambering, and a matching bolt.  (And I do prefer a free floated handguard, and a sling mount that is not connected to the barrel, but that is user preference)

If it's a flat top, add your choice of a carry handle or a cantilevered scope mount and be done.

Ammo:  Start with whatever is in stock at your preferred vendor.  Winchester White Box is perfectly good ammo.  Appleseed is a program designed for a rack grade military surplus rifle and USGI surplus ammo.  You don't need fancy stuff.

But jump in and get started. 
Seriously, get off the chair and pack your range bag and get to the range.

223 vs 556:  If your rifle is chambered in 556 you shoot either 556 or 223
If your rifle is chambered in 223 you shoot either 556 or 223
A difference does exist, but is not relevant.  I find the 556 to be less accurate (but if it is cheaper then it might be worth considering)

Personal story:  I was going to build my first AR15.  I wanted a crazy expensive upper that was out of my budget.  But I bought a generic DPMS upper and I've been shooting it for 15 years.  I still don't have that crazy expensive upper.  But I can lay down groups in prone with that generic 223 upper at 1.5MOA all day.  Appleseed is about the Rifleman, not the equipment.

The Troy upper came with flip-up sights, not sure what brand. I want to go to the range after a 10/22 on order arrives so I can take it as well. It will be my 25M rifle. So if DeLeon will get busy and ship it that will be nice.

Quote from: eaglescouter on January 10, 2026, 04:51:33 PMBut I bought a generic DPMS upper and I've been shooting it for 15 years.  I still don't have that crazy expensive upper.  But I can lay down groups in prone with that generic 223 upper at 1.5MOA all day.  Appleseed is about the Rifleman, not the equipment.

To wit - humans are more important than hardware. 

On further brighter light inspection with 2x magnifiers I can see, if I tilt it just right, under the handguard both barrels are marked "5.56 NATO 1/7". So I'm going on the presumption both rifles have the 5.56 chamber and both barrels are a 1/7 twist. A little fast maybe but on the chart I found rated OK for 55-62gr. and GOOD for 65-85gr. At least it isn't a 1/6 or 1/12-14.

  I agree with Eaglescouter; get out with the rifle and put rounds downrange!!!

  A 20 inch Rock River Arms upper with a 4.5 power optic will get decent hits at six hundred yards with just rifle / shooter / sling, and be "legal" for C.M.P. use.

  Four hundred yards only seems like a lot until you attain it; then it just isn't that THAT big of a deal.

  Get the rifle out and GET STARTED!!

  Enjoy the experience thoroughly.

I did my first Seed back in '09 with a YHM upper on a generic lower.  Got my Rifleman patch with it.  I've shot most of the various mfr uppers and they typically work fine.  I did shoot a godawful DSArms upper once, it's the only AR I've ever shot that wouldn't hold 4 MOA.  My SBR with a completely shot out, damned near smoothbore barrel would still hold 3!

That BCM is almost guaranteed to be a shooter, the only negative things I've heard about Troy has been political, not about their products.  My guess is, it'll shoot better than you can.

Quote from: Russell on February 24, 2026, 04:04:09 PMI did my first Seed back in '09 with a YHM upper on a generic lower.  Got my Rifleman patch with it.  I've shot most of the various mfr uppers and they typically work fine.  I did shoot a godawful DSArms upper once, it's the only AR I've ever shot that wouldn't hold 4 MOA.  My SBR with a completely shot out, damned near smoothbore barrel would still hold 3!

That BCM is almost guaranteed to be a shooter, the only negative things I've heard about Troy has been political, not about their products.  My guess is, it'll shoot better than you can.

Your DSArms would probably shoot better than I can. But I'll have more fun that it or the BCM or any other will have because this is all fun for me.