Ambidextrous shooting

Salty · January 06, 2021, 08:24:25 AM

It occurred to me over the weekend that Appleseed should have another Rifleman patch for people that can quality Rifleman with their non-dominant side. Do many people attempt the AQT using their weak side?

And it would be cool if the patch were the same Rifleman patch, but flipped horizontally so everything is printed backwards

malabar · January 06, 2021, 03:12:01 PM

I kinda like that. But then, I have a twisted sense of humor.

tk

Tennessee Beast · January 07, 2021, 11:07:19 AM

I know someone who can do it...Tellico. I have a feeling I know another out West I cannot due to non-correctable vision problems in my left eye, but have the upmost respect for those who can.

2wheelDuke · January 07, 2021, 11:38:24 AM

Kind of a cool idea. I've actually wondered about it before.

I'm a natural lefty. But some rifles are just not lefty friendly. When I played baseball as a kid, I wound up switching and playing as a right hander, but could switch hit.

Some rifles just aren't lefty friendly, so I've done some righty shooting. It throws off the students to model things left handed, so I've been working on things right handed to be a better instructor.

I've been wanting to run an official AQT as a righty.

Salty · January 07, 2021, 01:34:27 PM

So then my question is - who has the authority to say yes to something like this? Who can say "yes, Appleseed will start offering a patch for people that qualify on their weak side?" I don't know how much central control there is in Project Appleseed.

Lomshek · January 08, 2021, 02:57:56 PM

Quote from: DJ Liber-T on January 07, 2021, 01:34:27 PM
So then my question is - who has the authority to say yes to something like this? Who can say "yes, Appleseed will start offering a patch for people that qualify on their weak side?" I don't know how much central control there is in Project Appleseed.

It's a neat idea I'm not sure if adding a new patch for that is needed. Learning to be ambi or at least able to shoot passably with your other hand is an important skill but not something that raises to a new patch IMHO.

Personally I'd much rather see a centerfire badge/bar but really the Distinguished and 250 bars are probably enough.

Not my decision either way just an opinion.

TrapperPete · January 08, 2021, 05:25:13 PM

the Long Range bar kind of serves as a centerfire bar. you both ran it centerfire and that the 25meter skills convert nicely to full distance.

also not sure it needs a patch however new patches do keep people coming back

I am going to have to try an AQT south paw now . in our club action pistol we generally have some non dominant hand only portions of stages it really is good practice.

Rattlehead · January 08, 2021, 05:45:23 PM

Quote from: Lomshek on January 08, 2021, 02:57:56 PM
Quote from: DJ Liber-T on January 07, 2021, 01:34:27 PM
So then my question is - who has the authority to say yes to something like this? Who can say "yes, Appleseed will start offering a patch for people that qualify on their weak side?" I don't know how much central control there is in Project Appleseed.

It's a neat idea I'm not sure if adding a new patch for that is needed. Learning to be ambi or at least able to shoot passably with your other hand is an important skill but not something that raises to a new patch IMHO.

Personally I'd much rather see a centerfire badge/bar but really the Distinguished and 250 bars are probably enough.

Not my decision either way just an opinion.

One that I tend to agree with. There are plenty of stories of folks challenging themselves on the AQT in a variety of ways (most of them changing equipment... bolt action, high recoil (e.g. 8mm), single shots (Techres shooting AQTs with a Crickett comes to mind), tube mags, etc... Ambi is certainly one of the less common, more challenging, and more impressive ones). It's interesting to watch the approaches people take to it and their journeys to success. That said, I don't think they warrant additional patches.

Just another opinion...

Salty · January 08, 2021, 07:00:28 PM

QuotePersonally I'd much rather see a centerfire badge/bar

To which I say: why not both? I think centerfire shooting and ambi shooting are both milestones on the path to mastery. And it's not like there's a huge cost involved in having more patch types.

Quotehowever new patches do keep people coming back

I agree, and I think that's part of the reason why Appleseed should offer that patch and others. Someone who has done a couple Appleseeds might be drawn back if there are new challenges or at least new ways of recognizing existing challenges. People respond to recognition. Some people will want to collect every badge possible - and they will become better riflemen in the process.

EZ3 · January 08, 2021, 07:31:50 PM

Quote from: Rattlehead on January 08, 2021, 05:45:23 PM
Quote from: Lomshek on January 08, 2021, 02:57:56 PM
Quote from: DJ Liber-T on January 07, 2021, 01:34:27 PM
So then my question is - who has the authority to say yes to something like this? Who can say "yes, Appleseed will start offering a patch for people that qualify on their weak side?" I don't know how much central control there is in Project Appleseed.

It's a neat idea I'm not sure if adding a new patch for that is needed. Learning to be ambi or at least able to shoot passably with your other hand is an important skill but not something that raises to a new patch IMHO.

Personally I'd much rather see a centerfire badge/bar but really the Distinguished and 250 bars are probably enough.

Not my decision either way just an opinion.

One that I tend to agree with. There are plenty of stories of folks challenging themselves on the AQT in a variety of ways (most of them changing equipment... bolt action, high recoil (e.g. 8mm), single shots (Techres shooting AQTs with a Crickett comes to mind), tube mags, etc... Ambi is certainly one of the less common, more challenging, and more impressive ones). It's interesting to watch the approaches people take to it and their journeys to success. That said, I don't think they warrant additional patches.

Just another opinion...

Agreed. It's not that hard. Even if you have physical limitations on your "support side", well, we don't give special patches for adaptive shooters, do we?

Someone in quest of a new type of patch should try a Pistol Clinic, IMO.

Don'tFix1776 · January 09, 2021, 10:46:10 PM

I agree, while decent to have the ability to shoot well based off of either hand, it is a bit trivial and convolutes what achievements are already in place.. my double cents worth.

BBQ_Bandit · February 16, 2021, 09:21:30 PM

Hehehe... I resemble that remark.

https://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=59107.0

EZ3 · February 17, 2021, 09:34:43 AM

Quote from: BBQ_Bandit on February 16, 2021, 09:21:30 PM
Hehehe... I resemble that remark.

https://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=59107.0

Sir, my hat is off to you. You are a sterling example of persistence and the ability to "improvise, adapt & overcome".

medved · July 09, 2023, 04:54:04 PM

A similar thought: is a 'handicap' in order for using iron sights. Somehow, I feel that my score on irons are somewhat lower than what would come with scope with 50x magnification and a 10# barrel made by Thor's armorer.

Willociraptor · July 12, 2023, 10:17:41 PM

While on the topic, a great idea somebody shared with me once --

If you get paired with a student for a drill (ex: ball and dummy) and they're watching you, a great way to do things wrong is to sling up on the opposite side from usual. You're basically a brand new shooter. Easy to do things improperly and give the student something to diagnose.

But yeah I'd be interested to know how many people have done it both sides. I only know of one. It would be neat to have a patch for that, but it would be neat to have patches for lots of things.. no big deal if they're not available.

The challenge is still out there to tackle

EZ3 · July 12, 2023, 10:34:35 PM

Quote from: Willociraptor on July 12, 2023, 10:17:41 PM
While on the topic, a great idea somebody shared with me once --

If you get paired with a student for a drill (ex: ball and dummy) and they're watching you, a great way to do things wrong is to sling up on the opposite side from usual. You're basically a brand new shooter. Easy to do things improperly and give the student something to diagnose.

But yeah I'd be interested to know how many people have done it both sides. I only know of one. It would be neat to have a patch for that, but it would be neat to have patches for lots of things.. no big deal if they're not available.

The challenge is still out there to tackle

For an instructor, one advantage to being able to shoot well with either hand is that you can "mirror image" a student to help correct their SHF errors on the line. I tell them, "whatever I'm doing with my right hand, do it with your left and vice versa". Then they can just look at my position and copy it, mirror image. If I'm talking to a right-hander and modeling right-handed, either they are looking at my back or my muzzle is pointed the wrong way.

Maine.Dist.Rifleman · July 13, 2023, 10:54:10 AM

Quote from: medved on July 09, 2023, 04:54:04 PM
A similar thought: is a 'handicap' in order for using iron sights. Somehow, I feel that my score on irons are somewhat lower than what would come with scope with 50x magnification and a 10# barrel made by Thor's armorer.

First off, you don't want a 50X scope. 4X is plenty for a beginning shooter trying to shoot 210. The only handicap is for the distinguished category, which is 230 with irons and 240 with optics.

Mrs. Smith · July 13, 2023, 01:31:48 PM

Last year at the KD IBC in Midland Texas, the shoot boss made us practice the ball and dummy drill wrong-handed. We cussed him vehemently, make no mistake, but it was also eye-opening. It reminded us all what it felt like to be a new shooter and to struggle with good position and sight alignment. It felt completely alien. And humbling.

That said, there was a book published a few years ago (I bought it in 2016) called The Ambidextrous Rifleman, by Mark Laughlin. I actually learned about it here on the forum, but I couldn't begin to guess where that thread is now. It's not long, 41 pages, and available in Kindle and paperback. Perhaps some of you might find it useful.

https://a.co/d/cJYMKy0

addendum: the author is one of us, but the way. raggedyedge, from Wyoming. Perhaps he'll see this thread and chime in!

Smallbore · July 13, 2023, 01:59:12 PM

In the CA ARNG, I could always qualify as a Marksman shooting opposite hand, but that's no great feat.

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Ambidextrous shooting