Project Appleseed

As of late I have really started to get picky on brass as well.  My daughter took up 3 position centerfire shooting (Appleseed/CMP/NRA HP rifle), so....every time I squeeze the trigger she does.

8000+ rounds are what we both went thru this past year.  If only M855 was accurate, I would buy that stuff in bulk.  But, for accuracy and cost I find I need to reload.  I can make just as good or better reloaded ammo than I can buy.

To the brass, any brass that has a crimped primer requires that extra step, that being it needs to be swaged or reamed to accept a new primer.

That is a time consuming step, especially if one needs to do that 8000 or more times.  Yes, it is a once and done task....but time and effort consuming.

Swaging is adding pressure to the primer pocket to push away/to the sides the factory crimp.

Reaming, is cutting the crimp/removing material from the primer pocket.

I have used both methods, and have found that reaming is significantly faster and easier than swaging.  I chuck up a carbide primer pocket reamer attachment (RCBS) into my hand drill, and go to town on the brass.  The depth is controlled by the design of the attachment. 

I've never "over reamed" brass (knock on wood)....but with a cheaper attachment that can easily happen.  Yet another reason I will not buy brass from a Mom/Pop internet business....I have had bad experiences with over swaged brass (primer pockets loose).

Swaging, there are tools for that, the RCBS one I've broken 2 of them at the body, and then I bought the Dillon tool.  The Dillon tool works well, and controls the depth accurately.  Still need to check if one is over doing it, and there is a tool for that I highly recommend.  There are also reloading press activated swagers, the best likely being the one on the Dillon 1050.....but that is a very expensive press.

Ballistic Tools, sells a primer pocket go/no go gage.  This little tool is awesome.  Tells me if the brass has a crimp or not, helps when setting depth on the swage tool, and probably the most important one is it tells me if my primer pockets (after a few firings) have been blown out of spec.

When dealing with mass quantities of brass, segregation of what has been done (swaging/reaming) and not done can be tough to keep track of as well.  For the .223 I use only CCI BR4 primers, and those are silver in color.  Luckily enough for me, new Wolf or NAMMO NT brass comes with copper/gold colored primers, so....when sorting brass for reloading, it is easy enough for me to keep track of what is new, and what is once or more fired brass simply by looking at the primer colors.

I used to use a lot of Wolf primed brass, that stuff is great brass.  The only downfall to it is that it has a crimp.  After last fall/winter's brass prep for this season, I have swore off Wolf Brass and any brass that has a Crimp! LOL...seriously, it is just too much work for me.

Another excellent choice (and likely a tad bit better than Wolf) is NAMMO NT brass.  Powder Valley sells this stuff at a reasonable price for .223.  I buy it in bulk, and try to buy it when they have the stuff already primed.  NAMMO NT is made by Lapua, and it is excellent stuff.....more importantly to me, it has NO CRIMP!

Creedmoor .223 brass has no crimp either.  Federal brass for some reason, has a crimp...and a nasty one.  So not all "Commercial" brass is "Crimp Free".  Winchester White Box stuff seems to also have a crimp, at least the older stuff does.

So...reloading used to be a lot of fun for me....as I really liked experimenting.  For service rifles/wood rifles all that experimentation is really not necessary.  All of the known loads are published on the internet and they work very well.  I've gotten to the point where "my personal time=money" and when my requirement for next year is 8000 loaded rounds, I want to make that go as fast as possible.  If I can cut a step out like swaging, than it is worth it.

For the wood rifles...I only shoot them like 2-3 times a year, so I do use whatever brass I have (HXP) and ream those primer pockets.  But I am almost at a point where most of that stuff has been fired 3-4 times, so...at some point I will need to get some more 30-06 brass, likely by opening another spam can of HXP. 

Brass longevity?  For the semi autos I would say that is between 3 and 6 firings.  The extraction process of those actions are very violent on the brass.  Split necks and other indicators (in any reloading manual) will let you know when it is time to recycle or discard.  I find that the primer pockets let me know when it is time (another plug for a primer pocket go/no go gage).  If I can seat a primer with my fingers...that is a huge indicator it is time to discard.

R/
Chris

I guess you don't bother annealing?  Is it usually neck splitting or loose primer pockets that kills your brass.

I've used Winchester brass in the past but after seeing some reviews am trying Lake City for precision loads to see if I can stay under 1 MOA.  Being all crimped pockets there's lots of swaging and reaming going on.

Right now I'm experimenting with a Dillon Super Swage and/or RCBS reamer. 

A 1050 would make that easier but now I'm eyeing a Mk 7 Evolution.  There's always a better machine out there.

I make my own 300 AAC brass from spent Lake City brass.  The primer pocket is the part that causes me the most grief.  I avoid swagging or reaming if at all possible.  I will sometimes use a deburring tool to shave a small amount of brass off at the mouth of the primer pocket.

When I convert Lake City brass into 300 AAC, I use CCI 450 primers on the first loading and then use CCI 400 on the subsequent loads.  The reason that I do this is because I want to avoid reaming the primer pocket at all costs.  The primer pockets are the first to wear out and make the brass unusable.  After multiple firings at the max powder loads, the pockets loosen up and will no longer hold the primer.  If you don't remove the material in the first reloading, the pocket will naturally get larger and allow you to go to the slightly wider primer.  Make sure you work the loads up between the two primers.  I have never seen pressure signs on on either primer at the max load.

I have never used the BR4 primer in my 300 AAC but I am thinking about buying some of it to use in my oldest brass.

The diameter of the CCI 450 is 0.1750", CCI 400 is 0.1753",a nd CCI BR4 is 0.1755".

Your barrel's twist rate may be the cause of your precision issues.  If you are using a fast twist barrel, go with higher grain bullets.  The lighter M193 ammo prefers the slower twist barrels.

I never load anything to max.

Have tried swaggers and found them unsuitable to mixed lots of brass.

Now just cut the crimp away with a neck champher tool.

This ain't no benchrest match.

Quote from: USNAVYCHIEF(Ret) on October 12, 2019, 10:12:06 AM
Another excellent choice (and likely a tad bit better than Wolf) is NAMMO NT brass.  Powder Valley sells this stuff at a reasonable price for .223.  I buy it in bulk, and try to buy it when they have the stuff already primed.  NAMMO NT is made by Lapua, and it is excellent stuff.....more importantly to me, it has NO CRIMP!

NAMMO Tactical 556 brass is not made by Lapua.  Lapua is a part of NAMMO, but they currently make their own brass (headstamped "Lapua Match").  NAMMO Tactical essentially mil-surp brass is made by the company that used to make the "Lapua 223" brass before they made their own.  The case capacity of the two cases are different.  See Kevin Thomas' post 16 here: http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/nammo-tactical-5-56-bulk-brass.3943389/.  Mr. Thomas is the US Sales and Marketing Manager for Lapua.

Just curious, how are you lubing the brass?  I take it you do large batches at a time.

I like to mess around outside and get away from the bench when I can so I lube outside and use the sun the aid in drying quickly.  The only draw back is you can't do this when it's windy.  I put a bath towel on the sidewalk, and put the brass in rows across the towel-that's the most time consuming aspect.  I use lee lube, mix it with water and shake it up really well to it's got a "milky" white color.  Use a spray bottle and spray the cases.  This will get a fine mist on the outside of the case and inside the neck.  On a hot summer day they dry in just a few minutes.  For good measure, I like to hit them 2 or 3 times, then use my hand to roll them to the side that didn't get lubed yet and repeat.  I may roll them 3-4 times.  I do like to size a few to make sure I'm happy they are lubed well.  Then fold the towel edges in and dump the brass into a box.  I've left some sit for months after I lubed them with no issues of any kind.  Sounds like a lot of effort but once you get them on the towel it's really quick and easy.  I'm processing my free range pickup brass and recently lubed about 2500 223 brass in a few hours while I was also doing some other outside projects.   

My method is even simpler.

I have a big but short box (about 30" x 30" X 8" tall).  Imagine what a bicycle wheel would ship in.

Cut off the top flaps then seal all the bottom inside flaps with duct tape so no brass can get under a flap and reinforce the corners with tape to prevent a corner tearing then wrap the outer perimeter with a border of tape to keep it from splitting outward.

What you end up with is a big square box open on the top.  Dump enough brass in to more or less cover the floor of the box but not stack the brass up.  Liberally spray the brass down with Dillon's Case Lube then vigorously shake the box (wear ear pro because it's loud).  Repeat a couple more times to make sure all the cases get a coat on all sides.  Dump into a 5 gallon bucket marked as lubed brass and go to town whenever you want to size brass.

Quote from: d2331 on November 03, 2019, 03:00:49 PM
Just curious, how are you lubing the brass?  I take it you do large batches at a time.

I like to mess around outside and get away from the bench when I can so I lube outside and use the sun the aid in drying quickly.  The only draw back is you can't do this when it's windy.  I put a bath towel on the sidewalk, and put the brass in rows across the towel-that's the most time consuming aspect.  I use lee lube, mix it with water and shake it up really well to it's got a "milky" white color.  Use a spray bottle and spray the cases.  This will get a fine mist on the outside of the case and inside the neck.  On a hot summer day they dry in just a few minutes.  For good measure, I like to hit them 2 or 3 times, then use my hand to roll them to the side that didn't get lubed yet and repeat.  I may roll them 3-4 times.  I do like to size a few to make sure I'm happy they are lubed well.  Then fold the towel edges in and dump the brass into a box.  I've left some sit for months after I lubed them with no issues of any kind.  Sounds like a lot of effort but once you get them on the towel it's really quick and easy.  I'm processing my free range pickup brass and recently lubed about 2500 223 brass in a few hours while I was also doing some other outside projects.

I have been spending a lot of time in the mancave this winter getting ready for .223, .308, and .30-06 season.  Most of the time is spent prepping brass! And, reaming primer crimps is right at the top of the list in time consuming, but necessary, chores. 

No magic or wonderful tricks to it so far. Just hand reaming with a deburring tool. I regard it as a necessary evil.

Gus

Quote from: Lomshek on November 04, 2019, 03:39:58 PM
My method is even simpler.

I have a big but short box (about 30" x 30" X 8" tall).  Imagine what a bicycle wheel would ship in.

Cut off the top flaps then seal all the bottom inside flaps with duct tape so no brass can get under a flap and reinforce the corners with tape to prevent a corner tearing then wrap the outer perimeter with a border of tape to keep it from splitting outward.

What you end up with is a big square box open on the top.  Dump enough brass in to more or less cover the floor of the box but not stack the brass up.  Liberally spray the brass down with Dillon's Case Lube then vigorously shake the box (wear ear pro because it's loud).  Repeat a couple more times to make sure all the cases get a coat on all sides.  Dump into a 5 gallon bucket marked as lubed brass and go to town whenever you want to size brass.

Quote from: d2331 on November 03, 2019, 03:00:49 PM
Just curious, how are you lubing the brass?  I take it you do large batches at a time.

I like to mess around outside and get away from the bench when I can so I lube outside and use the sun the aid in drying quickly.  The only draw back is you can't do this when it's windy.  I put a bath towel on the sidewalk, and put the brass in rows across the towel-that's the most time consuming aspect.  I use lee lube, mix it with water and shake it up really well to it's got a "milky" white color.  Use a spray bottle and spray the cases.  This will get a fine mist on the outside of the case and inside the neck.  On a hot summer day they dry in just a few minutes.  For good measure, I like to hit them 2 or 3 times, then use my hand to roll them to the side that didn't get lubed yet and repeat.  I may roll them 3-4 times.  I do like to size a few to make sure I'm happy they are lubed well.  Then fold the towel edges in and dump the brass into a box.  I've left some sit for months after I lubed them with no issues of any kind.  Sounds like a lot of effort but once you get them on the towel it's really quick and easy.  I'm processing my free range pickup brass and recently lubed about 2500 223 brass in a few hours while I was also doing some other outside projects.

Make your only Dillon lube: keep your spray bottle if it holds 20oz or more. Add 1 16oz bottle of Isoheet (red bottle) and 2oz of lanolin. You can make 2-3 times the Dillon amount for the price and it is nearly identical to their formula. Mix by shaking well and give a bit of time for bubbles to go away. Dries quick and works way better then Lee in my opinion, (which I think is made by boiling fish guts or something). A bonus is they fire out of your rifle looking shiny still but have or leave no residue.