Project Appleseed

Prompted by discussion at https://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=54017.msg358178#new and a sale price of $16 with free shipping, I had to try one.  Figured this was the better place to post my gear report.

This thing looks to be well made, the web is textured in a way that makes it slippery lengthwise, but less-so laterally, so as to hopefully not slide down the arm too bad.  Although the folks at Turner Saddlery got nothing to worry about, for it's price point this is a pretty good option.  Several years back I experimented with web strap and commonly available fittings and came up with pretty much the same thing (which I didn't like at the time), with (because of) the notable exception of that wonderful slider!  The slider/keeper on this thing is just the right combination of ease-of-use and stay-puttedness - I was never able to find or make anything that worked as well, and it makes a big difference.  Kudos to Magpul!  But this sling, like everything, has its pros and cons.

Ease of adjustment.
The USGI is the clear winner here - whether in loop or hasty, adjustment is a quick trigger-hand only operation without even breaking position - nothing else comes close.  The 1907 is easy, but requires breaking position; the RLS is pretty much a set-n-forget PITA in the same category as drift adjustable sights.     NEED for adjustment?  Good thing the USGI is so easy, seems like I have to tweak mine a little every time I use it - between positions, with different clothes…  The 1907 needs adjustment only when I have to wear an extra-heavy coat, and the RLS seems to be in that same category, with the caveat below.

Ease/speed of slinging up.
Loop:  The 1907 handily takes this one - the higher lateral stiffness of both leather and Turner biothane makes it quick-n-easy to find and dive your arm into that loop all the way to your armpit.  The RLS is a might floppy by comparison, its actually pretty difficult if you rig it the way the directions say - instead I routed the strap in through the BACK side of the front buckle, wrapped it around the front of the buckle and back out through, so the buckle helps hold the loop open.  It still requires more wiggling and maybe trigger-hand helping then the 1907, but its still not bad.  The USGI?  Well - you know.
Hasty:  1907 again.  I rig mine with a half-twist so that the rear frog is partway up the front loop on the rifle side - which allows me to set the rear frog for good upper arm support in hasty, but I don't have to unhook it to shoot in loop without pulling the toe of the buttstock, making it true set-n-forget for all uses without fiddling.  I can't seem to be able to accomplish the same thing with the RLS; to work well without cant in loop, I have to leave the rear adjustment loose enough that a tight hasty is not possible, and of course adjustment is NOT fast.  This is a 2-use sling, loop and carry.  Hasty with a USGI comes in second right behind the 1907 - its just as fast, but not quite as solid a support for the upper arm against the chest.

If you want to be able to carry your rifle and sling-up fast in loop for $20, this is definitely your sling.  I'll likely stick with a biothane 1907 for my primary rifle, but this one is useful enough to go on one of the others.

This is all just living-room comparison so far, I won't be able to get to the range this weekend, but I will post a live-fire update when I do.   

Excellent overview, thanks. I think for 20bux I'll throw down on one to have laying around.

What site had the sling on sale?

https://www.armsunlimited.com/Magpul-RLS-Two-Point-Rifle-Loop-Sling-p/mag1004.htm

Quote from: azmule on July 22, 2018, 11:32:32 AM
https://www.armsunlimited.com/Magpul-RLS-Two-Point-Rifle-Loop-Sling-p/mag1004.htm

Thanks!

You can get these directly from Magpul on their webpage as well. 

I'd love to hear your reviews of the sling as I will forward them to the engineer who developed it.  You can send them to me directly at dhopkins@magpul.com  I'd like to know if these will work well at an Appleseed shoot.

I wanted to add a little addendum here, I had initially tried this sling only on my main rifle, an M1A, and got the results posted above - i.e. nice sling for the price, but with a couple of shortcomings that made me put my old sling back on.

Over the weekend I tried it on a different rifle, a lighter, shorter flush-mag Savage bolt-action with a front swivel set considerably closer (25.75" forward of the butt, compared to the M1A's 29"), establishing a higher, tighter prone position, and requiring a shorter loop.  Also, the rear swivel was a little further forward, making the swivels total about 4" closer to each other.  This must be the type of platform this sling was designed around, because this is where it really shined!  I was able to adjust it to both get a good snug hasty in standing AND a solid loop in prone without adjustment or the back of the sling pulling the rear swivel into a kant, which was my primary beef with it on the other rifle.  On this rifle, I even like this sling better than the 1907, which I've tried in the past and found to be a little too stiff and unwieldy on the shorter stock.  This is an absolute perfect match for a shorter-stocked rifle, or perhaps any rifle that has the front swivel set closer to the shooter.  Since that describes most .22 LTRs, this is likely a good alternative for Appleseed.

Here's a quick review you can forward to the product manager/engineer:

I installed the sling on a Victor Titan 10/22 stock using Uncle Mike's QD swivels.  The instructions were reasonably clear, but I know how to set up a sling.  If I were a novice, I don't think it would be intuitive how to attach the sling and the orientation to the rifle...I would want to see a schematic of the sling set up on a rifle.  Also, you show the set up on the shooter's body for standing but it would be equally helpful to show it for prone...but overall good effort on the set up instructions.

Finding the right length for the curved buckle as the loop stop took a bit of time but once found, it locked in nicely.  The keeper worked really well to cinch down the loop.  It actually sets up a lot like a M1917 Kerr sling.  Neat!

I found that the loop stayed put once set.  The nylon is sufficiently "grippy" that it doesn't slide down my arm.  This sling has an advantage over the GI web sling in that once the loop size is set, you don't have to find the perfect length again.  The downside is if your loop length is different for sitting, you have a relatively involved process for changing length.  I got lucky and my sitting length is pretty close to my prone length so I'm going to just leave it.  If everyone gets this lucky, you can set up the lengths of the sling once and have loop, hasty and carry lengths set once and forget!

All in all, a great, modern sling that is completely useful in a Project Appleseed setting.  Working between shooters or if you have massive difference in your prone/sitting loop sling lengths and/or you have summer/winter sling lengths (e.g., thicker layers of clothes) means you have a bit more difficulty in changing lengths than with the GI web sling.  It is, however, easier to change lengths than a M1907.

Nice job and I'm looking forward to shooting with this sling for a while for a long term review.

SteelThunder

Quote from: SteelThunder on August 15, 2018, 07:00:27 PM

I found that the loop stayed put once set.  The nylon is sufficiently "grippy" that it doesn't slide down my arm.  This sling has an advantage over the GI web sling in that once the loop size is set, you don't have to find the perfect length again. 

I was just checking mine out again not 10 minutes ago. Played with it some this weekend. My experience so far is it's pretty good but the 'keeper' kept sliding down. I'd have to keep adjusting it tighter every few minutes. But then again I try and get a snug, almost tight, loop.

Where it shines for me is if you're doing something like a run n gun. Then you can let out a lot of slack. And carry it easy - and then get into a loop quick.

Anyhow - bring your sling, I've got a few I'm going to give out at Dean's during the IBC and we'll figure it out. It's sure got promise.

Just got one in the mail that I plan to put on my scout rifle, once my swivels from the AS store arrive. Hopefully I put it on the right way the first time (this little orange hat is woefully inept in the realm of spatial reasoning). Once I give it a little dry work, I plan to go zero the rifle again soon; perhaps then I can offer some additional comments, if I have anything unique to add to the discussion.

Nice write-up. Thanks!

Anymore feedback on the RLS and ASing?

So, my $0.01 (Appleseed discount applied)

BLUF:  Adequate for Appleseed instruction.

Having no experience with anything other than the USGI sling up to this point, I found the instructions to be adequate.  It took me a second to realize that the order of "hardware", forward to aft, was keeper, flat buckle, curved buckle, with the material aft of the curved buckle moving through the aft swivel and back to the curved buckle.  The down side is that it took me about 10 minutes, sitting on the firing line at the local indoor range, to figure this out.

My keeper was pretty tight.  Once I dialed in the current amount of sling material forward of the flat loop, using a loop (defined by the keeper and flat buckle) was easy.  I was able to get adequate groups in the sitting position and a solid shooting position.  Will collect more data at my next AS event - going prone at my local indoor range, the juice almost isn't worth the squeeze due to space and policy restrictions.

Quote from: Monkey on September 21, 2018, 01:58:15 PM
So, my $0.01 (Appleseed discount applied)

BLUF:  Adequate for Appleseed instruction.

Having no experience with anything other than the USGI sling up to this point, I found the instructions to be adequate.  It took me a second to realize that the order of "hardware", forward to aft, was keeper, flat buckle, curved buckle, with the material aft of the curved buckle moving through the aft swivel and back to the curved buckle.  The down side is that it took me about 10 minutes, sitting on the firing line at the local indoor range, to figure this out.

My keeper was pretty tight.  Once I dialed in the current amount of sling material forward of the flat loop, using a loop (defined by the keeper and flat buckle) was easy.  I was able to get adequate groups in the sitting position and a solid shooting position.  Will collect more data at my next AS event - going prone at my local indoor range, the juice almost isn't worth the squeeze due to space and policy restrictions.

Good stuff Monkey!

I have been using USGI for years but in the past three or four years I have been running a "Rhodesian style" sling. It is easy to get in and out of ( I did add a loop of both portions of the sling material to act as a slider to provide a more tight loop if needed. It has worked pretty well.

I bought one of the Magpul RLS slings thinking "it is just a newish version of the same old thing but did find it to be akin to if the USGI and the Rhodesian had a lovechild. It seems a little cumbersome to set up at first but I ran a quick and dirty AQT and it actually worked better than I thought it would.

YMMV and objects in the mirror are closer than they appear.

Can anyone offer some media on how to get into the loop sling with this? I've watched the video many times and they don't do a decent job of showing it, for me anyways; 2 minute mark.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=133&v=Na4bGoBReuk

I don't know of any media, but I have a Magpul RLS sling and have used it as a loop sling.

The RLS works reasonably well as a loop sling, but has some real limitations.  The sling itself has two triglides and a sliding sling keeper.  One of the triglides has a slight curvature and is sewn into one end of the sling.  The other triglide is flat and is used only to secure the butt end of the sling and adjust overall sling length. 

The loop is formed by the forward triglide with the slight curvature.  This forms the back end of the loop and the curved triglide provides a bit of concavity to fit against the back side of your upper arm more comfortably.  The loop is formed by the strap of the sling, which is sewn into the upper triglide, running up through the forward sling swivel and then back down and through the same curved triglide.  The slider runs over both limbs of the sling strap and allows the loop to be tightened on the upper arm.

If the overall length of the sling is made long enough, there is no need to detach the rear of the sling to use it as a loop sling.  With the slider slid all the way toward the fore-end swivel, you can take the forward portion of the sling and give it a half-twist outboard as you would when entering the loop of a USGI web sling or model 1907 leather sling.  Then put your support hand and arm between the two straps of the forward part of the sling, slide it up your arm, and tighten down the loop by pulling the slider down against your arm.  There should be sufficient slack at the rear end of the sling so as not to limit your ability to get into or out of your shooting position.

The biggest limitation of the RLS sling is that there is no rapid means by which to adjust either overall sling length, or the length from the rear of the sling loop to the forward sling attachment point.  So if you need to make an adjustment in sling length between sitting and prone positions, as many do, this sling will not work too well for you unless you have the ability to shift or change the forward sling anchor position.  Also, if you leave the overall sling length long enough to use the sling as a loop sling without detaching the rear sling attachment, it will likely be too long to use as a "hasty" sling.  If you adjust it to proper overall length for use as a hasty sling, the sling rear of the sling will likely not have enough slack to use as a loop sling without detaching the rear end of the sling.

The RLS would make a decent sling for Appleseed if you are one who does not find it necessary to adjust sling length between sitting and prone stages, and do not use a sling for shooting off-hand.  Alternatively, you could use a different sling set to a different length for use as a hasty sling, if that is what you use shooting standing, and swap slings between stages.

Thank you PBlanc. Your detailed description was perfect. As for your thoughts on moving the forward attachment point, That'd be simple enough with an M-Lok hand guard. That'd be nice if someone made a QD M-Lok rail, that would eliminate the need for 2 separate QDs

Thanks again, I appreciate your help.