Project Appleseed

I earned my rifleman badge last June and went back for another Appleseed event today with a CMMG .22 LR upper for a standard AR-15 receiver.  I have both good an bad things to say about it.  I included some pictures because otherwise,  .  The S&W M&P 15-22 ban has upset many people and this upper is a good if not better alternative. 

If you want an AR like gun to train with, you could bite the bullet and buy an AR-15 of your choosing and pair it up with this CMMG .22LR upper.  You would then have two different calibers that can be used on the same receiver.  This would give you cheap training with a .22LR caliber. 

My good experience with this upper has me toying with the idea of buying a 300 Blackout upper and trying that caliber out. 

I will start with the good things:

1)  The build quality is top notch.  When you hold the upper in your hands and look at it, all your senses tell you that this is something well built and not just some chintzy product that was thrown together in the cheapest way possible.  The look and feel of the upper screams "badass" at you in the most soothing siren song of rifleman cadence.   The barrel is a true .22 LR barrel with a 1 in 16" twist which is optimum for the lower mass .22 LR round.  It is made of the same exact material used in their 5.56x45 barrels.  The Salt Bath Nitriding (SBN) is a great feature as well.  It adds nitrogen to the metal surface to a depth of about 30 microns that is very hard.  I took a Gerber pocket knife and tested it on the barrel.  The barrel was harder than the knife.  This tells me that the rifling will not go away anytime soon.

2)  The fit of the upper is tight and forms a good friction fit to a mil-spec lower.  I can pull the rear pin out and it requires a bit of effort to separate the two parts of the carbine.  The fit is so good that there is no wobble when the two halves are paired together.  I had to buy a different lower on short notice because the SGW receiver made 1987 that I had planned to use would not pair up to it.  I think this is more a function of the old receiver that was made almost 30 years ago being out of tolerance rather than a fault of the CMMG upper.

3)  This upper was 100% reliable today.  It did not suffer from a single malfunction.  I bought a total of 10 Black Dog magazines to use with this upper (Eight 10-round magazines and two 15-round magazines) and loaded them with CCI AR-22 ammunition.  The ammunition fed in with no issues and all of the rounds went off when I pulled the trigger.  The groups were good.

4)  The weight of this upper is of similar mass to a center fire upper in 5.56x45.  This setup would be a near exact like for like between a rim fire and center fire setup.

5)  The precision was superb.  The gun did make many good groups during the course of fire.  The groups were not always where I wanted them to be.  You can fix the accuracy issue as long as the gun has precision.  I think the barrel is well made and will out live me even if I were to put a million rounds through it.

There is only 1 bad thing that I have to say about this upper.  The longest free floating hand guard that comes with these complete uppers are 11" long.  CMMG has 15" models of this exact same style of hand guard but does not offer this option.  You could in theory buy a 15" hand guard for another $200 and swap it out but this is another expense that is hard to justify.  The reason why this is a bad thing is that the sight radius is 4" less than what it could be.  This hurt my performance on the line.  The Ruger 10/22 with a 22" barrel and Techsights has a much longer sight radius than this CMMG upper and the scores show how much of an issue that this is.  If you plan to not use iron sights and instead use an optic, this shorter sight radius will not matter and you would be left with nothing but good things to say about it.

This CMMG upper did lock the bolt back on the last round as advertised on the magazine follower.  The bolt will close when the magazine is removed.  CMMG does offer a bold hold open device that actives the last round hold open device of the AR-15 receiver.  It fits between the upper and the lower and uses the magazine follower to actuate the hold open device rather than using the magazine follower holding the bolt open.  I do not have that optional device and can't comment on it.  I only bring this up because it will not feel like/behave like a standard AR-15 while changing magazines.  If you are the type of person that uses the charging handle, this will not matter to you.

I will try to shoot a 210+ on an AQT tomorrow. 

I love mine. Its very accurate. I built it using just the 20 inch barrel and bolt. I put a 15 inch ALG hand guard on it. I put a Better Mag Adapter for the S&W mags so I can use the mags and get the bolt hold open feature and the bolt stays open when the mag is removed. It will act just like a real AR-15. 
https://www.redi-mag.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=52
http://www.opticsplanet.com/cmmg-inc-22lr-mk4-barrel-kits-w-bolt-group.html

I have not shot an AQT with it yet.

I suffered a malfunction today that made my carbine nonfunctional.  The plastic forward assist part on the bold lost a small piece of plastic that gummed up the trigger group of my AR-15 lower.  I was unable to put the safety on and the disconnect did not operate correctly.  At first I was unable to make out what the part was or where it came from.  When I was able to perform a more detail autopsy on the gun, I was able to clearly identify what had happened.

A friend of mine was able to shake the piece loose and I am please to say that the gun is back to working order minus the forward assist part.

This malfunctioned occurred at the end of the day when I was carving a pumpkin with 5 other shooters.  I had loaded my carbine with CCI Stinger ammo which is high velocity and hollow point.  Stinger ammo is perfect for the task of carving a pumpkin.  The CMMG upper is designed to accept this ammunition.  Towards the end of my last magazine the gun would not fire and would not allow me to put the safety on.  I was able to pop the rear pin out and remove the bolt assembly to make the gun safe. 

I will also add that the gun is precise.  I was putting very nice groups together at 25 yards that could be covered with a quarter.  This upper can shoot well.  I highly recommend the CMMG upper for anyone that wants to shoot a .22 LR in an AR-15 platform.  Just make sure you remove the forward assist plastic part.  I am wondering if this part could be made of aluminum.  It looks like it could easily be made in a cast.

I agree that the CMMG upper is as good as anything out there.
As for the forward assist, you can replace it with a plug. There is little use for it in a .22lr upper. Check out the various on line vendors.
aj

It's baffling they include a forward assist when you get right down to it.  Just one more thing to break, as Mutant Texan found out.

*Update*

CMMG is fixing the issue of the broken forward assist part.  They are sending a better quality forward assist part that is made out of metal to me.  I will get it in a few days. 

My overall experience with CMMG has been positive when dealing with minor issues.

When I bought my Mutant Rifle earlier this year from Budsgunshop, the box was missing a Magpul magazine.  CMMG fixed it.  When my forward assist plastic part broke, CMMG fixed it by replacing it with the same part made of better material.

This upper will shoot better than you can.  I was able to get groups at my last Appleseed that I could cover with a quarter while using the NPOA techniques.  The limitations of my eye sight kept me from always putting the rounds where they needed to be but that is my fault and not the gun's fault.

I looked at what I spent on my Umarex Colt M4 and what I spent on this CMMG and hands down the CMMG gives you many more joyful " Huzzahs!" than any other .22 LR rifle that I have ever owned per dollar spent.  This setup uses a common magazine design rather than the proprietary junk that the other AR makers use and that also counts for a lot to me.

Prior to the S&W ban, I was able to shoot one at an Appleseed last May.  It did not have any malfunctions but the feeling of holding the plastic firearm left me with an empty feeling.  It was just too light and a snug sling contorted it in ways that make shooting straight impossible to do.  The Umarex Colt M4 of mine feels better in the hands than the S&W but the issues that I have had with it as discussed in other threads left me frustrated.  The Umarex will shoot well but I would not have bought it had I known what I would have to deal with.  I wish I had known about CMMG earlier.

The CMMG upper is the way to go for those that want the AR .22 LR platform.  CMMG feels good in the hands and it has given me a lot few headaches than the Umarex.  That Forward assist plastic part is not even needed to shoot.  I did use it a few times in tests when I rode the bolt closed rather than letting the spring do it.  It is a cosmetic item more than anything.  I also like that you can use a .22 LR upper and a 5.56x45 upper interchangeably on the same lower.

As stated before, this upper is the same as the 5.56x45 uppers with the exception of the bolt carrier group and the barrel rifle rate/ diameter.  The barrel is made of the same material as the center fire products with the specs optimized for the .22 LR round.  This upper will go on any mil-spec lower!

I received the new forward assist part from CMMG in the mail free of charge.  It looks like it is made from a ferric stainless sleel because it is attracted to a magnet.  It may be the same material as the bolt and bolt carrier which are both also attracted to magnets.

I don't understand why CMMG would use a plastic forward assist part in this dedicated .22 LR upper because it appears that this is the only plastic part used.  CMMG made it right and fixed the issue with no additional cost to me so I have to give them kudos there.

I am struggling to decide which gun I like best for the AQT.  I like my stainless 22" barreled Ruger 10/22 a lot and feel the same about this CMMG dedicated .22LR upper.  If I were forced to choose between the two, I would go with the CMMG dedicated upper most of the time.  The CMMG upper does cost about twice as much as a decent Ruger 10/22, but this dedicated upper feels so similar to a real AR-15 and would make a good trainer for Sunday's center fire Sunday.  You would only need to put the 5.56x45 upper on and you are good to go.  I still recommend the Ruger 10/22 for people attending their first Appleseed over anything else.

Quote from: TimBeatty on October 23, 2016, 12:20:45 AMI put a Better Mag Adapter for the S&W mags so I can use the mags and get the bolt hold open feature and the bolt stays open when the mag is removed. It will act just like a real AR-15. 
https://www.redi-mag.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=52
http://www.opticsplanet.com/cmmg-inc-22lr-mk4-barrel-kits-w-bolt-group.html

I have a dedicated .22LR upper built by a guy in FL.  Called "Ballistic Advantage" has a green mountain barrel and uses black dog magazines.  Which lock open but on the follower such that the bolt goes forward when mag removed.
Is there something I can do or modify so the bolt stays back during a mag change?  Links appreciated.

I have the CLE dedicated upper and conversions. None lock open automatically. But are easy to relock open when you finish a string.

I put a Better Mag Adapter for the S&W mags so I can use the mags and get the bolt hold open feature and the bolt stays open when the mag is removed. It will act just like a real AR-15.