Project Appleseed

I was planning to bring an AR and an M1 to a KD I am attending soon.  However, I'm having a bit of trouble getting into the prone position with the M1.

I have the 1907 sling properly configured (thanks to kenjo at the IBC!) but, from the loop configuration, if I have my support hand at ~90 degrees I can't get the butt of the rifle into my shoulder pocket.  In order to do so I need to extend the loop/long portion to almost maximum length which either puts my support arm WAY past 90 degrees, or, in the 90 degree position, has no tension to speak of.

I've reached out to another local instructor in the hopes of some hands-on coaching, I wanted to ask here in the event that falls through or the tips mentioned herein might have value for anyone else.

Can anyone suggest what might be wrong?  Maybe some pictures of the prone position with an M1?

For the record, I'm an average-sized guy at 5'10", length of pull is about 1/2" long but should be well within acceptable fit.

For the M1, traditionally the arm was not at 90 degrees, it was extended to the sling swivel and that served as a hand stop. If you can do that, great. You will want to invert your elbow to get it under or as close to under the rifle that you can without causing undue pain in the shoulder.

Check at ~8:00 minutes for the prone section. You will want a more "behind the rifle" position, but there is good stuff in this old video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ0mB-y65x8

I too have this problem.
I have a very short lenght of pull.
Several fellow instructors call me T Rex.
I am very uncomfortable and way past 90deg.
I cut 1" off the buttstock and now cant shoot it in competition cause I modified it.
improvise adapt and overcome!
Sly223

Try more index and make sure your nose is almost on top of the rear end of the receiver. I'm a fairly little guy and I suffer same issue on M1. Gotta get wrapped around that old girl and into a very solid position or I lose NPOA on every shot. I use a 1907 sling, except when I shoot competition and then I prefer a web sling as it tends to stay up and snug better than the 1907, but I can shoot with either.

Oh, and lots o dry fire practice is required prior to any event where you plan to shoot it. 

Quote from: PHenry on March 11, 2015, 03:52:47 PM
Try more index and make sure your nose is almost on top of the rear end of the receiver. I'm a fairly little guy and I suffer same issue on M1. Gotta get wrapped around that old girl and into a very solid position or I lose NPOA on every shot. I use a 1907 sling, except when I shoot competition and then I prefer a web sling as it tends to stay up and snug better than the 1907, but I can shoot with either.

Oh, and lots o dry fire practice is required prior to any event where you plan to shoot it. 

+1

If it's non comp gun install sling swivel back a ways on the stock.

The sling swivel is attached to the end of the stock so moving it is neither simple nor necessary. I'm small too (5'9" w short arms) and I find the Garand to be pretty solid in prone ( and I LOVE that nice long sight radius), so it's certainly possible to find a good solid position. I'll post a picture of my prone Garand position tomorrow if that would be helpful, but what I would like to see is a picture of YOUR position. A picture is worth at least a thousand words!

Quote from: Agrivere on March 11, 2015, 08:39:39 PM
The sling swivel is attached to the end of the stock so moving it is neither simple nor necessary. I'm small too (5'9" w short arms) and I find the Garand to be pretty solid in prone ( and I LOVE that nice long sight radius), so it's certainly possible to find a good solid position. I'll post a picture of my prone Garand position tomorrow if that would be helpful, but what I would like to see is a picture of YOUR position. A picture is worth at least a thousand words!

You can't move factory swivel one true. But you can easily install after market one very easy just read up how I did it on mini. Same issue same styles.

Quote from: viperrt1 on March 11, 2015, 08:50:15 PM

Quote from: Agrivere on March 11, 2015, 08:39:39 PM
The sling swivel is attached to the end of the stock so moving it is neither simple nor necessary. I'm small too (5'9" w short arms) and I find the Garand to be pretty solid in prone ( and I LOVE that nice long sight radius), so it's certainly possible to find a good solid position. I'll post a picture of my prone Garand position tomorrow if that would be helpful, but what I would like to see is a picture of YOUR position. A picture is worth at least a thousand words!

You can't move factory swivel one true. But you can easily install after market one very easy just read up how I did it on mini. Same issue same styles.

Personally I would not start drilling extra holes in a Garand stock, but you do as you wish. Many thousands of soldiers did just fine with that rifłe using it as John Garand intended.  A shooting glove and a solid position will keep your hand in place without messing with the rifłe.

Practice will make you learn the best position for your body type. With a few thousand rounds down the tube you will be able to drop to a prone or sitting position have npoa ,everything feel right and hit the target. The Garand is a little difficult to shoot at first for most people but once your use to pushing the en bloc home and knowing a good postion it will fit like a glove with out any mods like John Garand intented. All my rifles have a 1907 sling.

Without seeing the position in person, I would venture to say that you don't have enough of an index to the rifle.  A person with short arms, and a long rifle will need a more extreme angle to the rifle.  As said before, a picture of your position, from a few different angles will help us to diagnose and correct any deficiencies.

Thanks for all the feedback.  I don't really have the ability to take a "prone selfie" just yet, perhaps this weekend.  I'm off to the basement to try out the aforementioned suggestions.

Thank you to all that provided feedback and tips.  It turned out the culprit was a too-short sling.  It's not new to me, but it turns out it was 6-8 inches shorter than a new one.  That got me off the last set of holes and right into a proper position.

Extra thanks to my "neighbor" Earl for letting me come by for some critique.

Fun fact. In the 1940s a 5'9" man would be average to above average in height. So, probably a perfect fit for the US Cal 30.

Quote from: Agrivere on March 11, 2015, 08:39:39 PM
The sling swivel is attached to the end of the stock so moving it is neither simple nor necessary. I'm small too (5'9" w short arms) and I find the Garand to be pretty solid in prone ( and I LOVE that nice long sight radius), so it's certainly possible to find a good solid position. I'll post a picture of my prone Garand position tomorrow if that would be helpful, but what I would like to see is a picture of YOUR position. A picture is worth at least a thousand words!

The Standard sling for the M1 is 48 inches. For the AR it is 52 to 56.

By the way, the nylon "Garand slings" were not designed for the Garand, or even the M14. If you notice, they're longer, and were the original issue for the M16A1. I ought to know, my issue rifle from the Army was the M16A1 for many years, and most had this sling, until we started seeing the M16A2 garbage carry strap.

The nylon slings at the Appleseed store have been contract overruns from a USMC contract, and they are 20" AR slings. Thicker, tougher nylon, they're fairly slip resistant, like the old canvas sling.

Jmdavis mentioned the length. The smart thing to do is measure and be sure. He did the hard part for you.