Project Appleseed

I have a KD shoot coming up in Oregon and I'm trying to choose which rifle to use. The choices are:

M1 Garand CMP Special
FN-49 (.30-06 loaded via stripper clips)
Chinese Type 56 SKS
AR-15 SBR with 11.5" barrel

I have plenty of ammo/magazines/stripper/enbloc clips as applicable. My preference is to use the FN-49 just because it's something different; any thoughts?

Quote from: modeler on March 03, 2015, 10:42:34 PM
I have a KD shoot coming up in Oregon and I'm trying to choose which rifle to use. The choices are:

M1 Garand Special
FN-49 (.30-06 loaded via stripper clips)
Chinese Type 56 SKS
AR-15 SBR with 11.5" barrel

I have plenty of ammo/magazines/stripper/enbloc clips as applicable. My preference is to use the FN-49 just because it's something different; any thoughts?

Its hard to argue against the Garand.

Garand the way to go. But you be King if you did it with sks. Not that sks it's self can't but rifleman to gun interface is problem.

Great question.
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/Smileys/newsmileys/wink.gif
Shoot the rifle that you shoot best and have the best data for.... the one you best understand the trajectory and sights.  Considering the decades and decades of proven data available on the M1, that would be my personal choice.

Bring a backup rifle, just in case Murphy shows up.   

Have a great time!

Rusty

Somehow I figured you would all say the Garand...  But it's so common. It might be nice to use something different. Not that I can find a whole lot of info on the FN-49, there were only a few thousand of them made. And the sights are the ski-ramp style for different ranges, not sure how accurate that would be.

Quote from: modeler on March 04, 2015, 12:22:44 AM
Somehow I figured you would all say the Garand...  But it's so common. It might be nice to use something different. Not that I can find a whole lot of info on the FN-49, there were only a few thousand of them made. And the sights are the ski-ramp style for different ranges, not sure how accurate that would be.

Only 1 way to find out.

I have yet to find a gun that can't shoot with right ammo.

Quote from: viperrt1 on March 04, 2015, 12:27:19 AM
I have yet to find a gun that can't shoot with right ammo.

It's going to be Greek HXP for the Garand and the FN, steel cased TulAmmo for the SKS and American Eagle for the AR.

Greek ok if you year match. Best if you can lot match. For garand 2moa no problem

Don't know with fn just going have try.

Tula really probably the worse ammo out there. But super cheap so ya. Ppu, S&B, for brass ammo or golden bear, Hornaday for steel. All 4 will do under 2moa in mini 30. Hornaday being best of the lot. So see what your sks likes.

Eagle ok AR run most brass ammo fine. That should do 2moa

Just make sure the sling does not pull on the barrel. That will change POI.
Being all 4 gun should be able to do 2 moa it's on you.

Sorry I missed the SBR 11.5 223 at 400 yards urmmaaa

If I was your garand or fn. Sks could do it but sks sling on side and sighs are ok but not match grade by anyone's standards. SKS will make you work for it.

The AR SBR that going be a pistol. So lot bullet drop. So I stay away

Pick whatever you want.   I shoot to 400 with a 10-22.  20 moa base and a decent scope. Any centerfire will.do the trick if you do your part!

Quote from: grunt soldier on March 04, 2015, 01:03:02 AM
Pick whatever you want.   I shoot to 400 with a 10-22.  20 moa base and a decent scope. Any centerfire will.do the trick if you do your part!

Don't take it as personal shot. Will all due respect 400 yards AQT with 10/22 would be sight to behold.

The best rifle is the one you have in your hands.

Quote from: viperrt1 on March 04, 2015, 01:05:32 AM

Quote from: grunt soldier on March 04, 2015, 01:03:02 AM
Pick whatever you want.   I shoot to 400 with a 10-22.  20 moa base and a decent scope. Any centerfire will.do the trick if you do your part!

Don't take it as personal shot. Will all due respect 400 yards AQT with 10/22 would be sight to behold.

Might be sir but it is far from impossiblE. Myself and several who shoot far better than me have done it.  Vette.  Yellowhousejake. Ol huff. Its definitely doable especially if you follow the fundamentals. 

Doubt all you want but until you show up in Indiana with your centerfire you probably won't know different.

Hell vette shoots out to 500 plus with his cz 22. Granted its a custom base but I have seen it with my eyes

Like I was trying to say don't take it personally. That just impressive claim is all.
I think be hell cool to see. Custom rifle or not.

But hey I shoot sub moa with mini 30 so I have been there with impressive claims.

So I feel you there.
Internet looses bit of emotion in statements.

Why not shoot the FN-49?

But if I were you, I'd bring the Garand too, just in case...     It's common for a reason.  It works.

The SKS can do it better than most people think, but you'll be fighting the sights.  Same with an SBR AR-15 -- without optics, personally I wouldn't have a chance.  Just not enough sight radius for these eyes.

You've received some sage advice.  Hard to think I can add anything to this discussion, but that's never stopped me in the past.

In my opinion, the rifle you should take to ANY event is the one you know and can properly manipulate quickest, easiest, and SAFEST.  If you've not practiced loading 2 rounds into a Garand before, you might want to try that in your living room with some dummy rounds before heading out to the range.  This is easy enough with time on your side, but when you're on the clock ... well, things have a way of changing.

Same is true of any rifle that doesn't load with a detachable box magazine.

Then again, if all you're after is some real distance dope on your rifle, then bring them all and a good data book for each rifle.

It's less about the rifle, and more about your skill. Bring whichever one you like.

Take the M1 and the FN. SBRs are silly at range, and SKS's really lack in a lot of areas. Once you've made KD rifleman, play with the SKS if you want a challenge.

The test was designed for the M1, and there's not that many out there. I have yet to see more than one on the line at a time.

Take the Garand!  The timed stages will really force you to improve your rifle handling skills.  By the end of the shoot you'll be loading 2 round clips with ease and confidently manipulating the bolt while avoiding "M1 Thumb".  Apply your standard come ups and you'll be good to go!

Quote from: viperrt1 on March 04, 2015, 01:05:32 AM

Quote from: grunt soldier on March 04, 2015, 01:03:02 AM
Pick whatever you want.   I shoot to 400 with a 10-22.  20 moa base and a decent scope. Any centerfire will.do the trick if you do your part!

Don't take it as personal shot. Will all due respect 400 yards AQT with 10/22 would be sight to behold.

Ive never done a AQT with my 22 (outside of 25 meter), but I can keep them all on a torso target at 500 yds.  A torso target is 18x36, so thats roughly 3 moa wide, and 7 MOA tall.  So figure in the 4 moa standard, and I probably would not qualify (most miss's are on the elevation side due to match ammo still being pretty inconsistent at that range) but I would knock on its door

The question is, will a 22 pentrate the paper at that range?  It pretty much scratch's steel.

A 22 will penetrate paper at 300 and 400. The NRA used to hold 300 yard prone smallbore matches. We sometimes shoot a 200 yard smallbore match locally.

Quote from: jmdavis on March 04, 2015, 12:27:03 PM
A 22 will penetrate paper at 300 and 400. The NRA used to hold 300 yard prone smallbore matches. We sometimes shoot a 200 yard smallbore match locally.

Good to know.  Ive never shot anything besides steel north of 200.

I might take my CZ to a KD shoot this year just to hear the people tell me if cant be done.

Don't spend so much time worrying about the rifle.  Bring the one your shoot the best.

Believe me, if it were as easy as "which rifle" to make Riflemen, our job would be boring.  It is rarely the hardware...it is almost always the software that is the problem.

I ask one thing let us know how it goes. Good bad or ugly

Looks like Military Arms Channel did a video on my question a few months ago.

http://youtu.be/np31PVyZ1Gk

And a 100 yard range video:

http://youtu.be/g-flsGj0stQ?t=11m20s

Nice

Quote from: Big John on March 04, 2015, 09:17:33 AM
Take the M1 and the FN. SBRs are silly at range, and SKS's really lack in a lot of areas. Once you've made KD rifleman, play with the SKS if you want a challenge.

The test was designed for the M1, and there's not that many out there. I have yet to see more than one on the line at a time.

Sage words of advice right there.

Do it first with a rifle set up for those distances. Then, after you've done it with one, try it with the others.

There's nothing wrong with a 20" or even 14.5" or 16" AR getting it done, but I'd say that 11.5" has an even shorter sight radius, and would be a problem, unless you're using optics.

I have some friends that have consistently gotten torso hits out to 800 meters, with a 14.5" AR. Using optics (ACOG or Aimpoint CompM4 red dot) of course. On the range, and for real.

Quote from: Nickle on March 08, 2015, 10:25:11 PM

Sage words of advice right there.

Do it first with a rifle set up for those distances. Then, after you've done it with one, try it with the others.

There's nothing wrong with a 20" or even 14.5" or 16" AR getting it done, but I'd say that 11.5" has an even shorter sight radius, and would be a problem, unless you're using optics.

I have some friends that have consistently gotten torso hits out to 800 meters, with a 14.5" AR. Using optics (ACOG or Aimpoint CompM4 red dot) of course. On the range, and for real.

Don't get hung up on the short barrel having a shorter sight radius, it has a carbine length gas system (and sight radius) just like (almost) every other 16" barrel AR out there. No difference in sight radius.