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Putting IMC in Perspective.

Started by olefido, May 12, 2014, 09:35:17 PM

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olefido

May 12, 2014, 09:35:17 PM
The next time you are assigned to teach IMC at an Appleseed, don't sweat it. You don't have to teach this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifleman%27s_rule

While the information at the top of the article is very well written, informative, and relatively simple, as you scroll down to the bottom...Oh, my!!!

??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
"That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell

Mutti

#1
May 12, 2014, 09:46:04 PM
Blink
"A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort."
Herm Albright
(1876 - 1944)

slim

#2
May 12, 2014, 10:33:35 PM
What's really awesome about Appleseed is we have a simple rule for shooting on inclines as well. "Aim a little low."

floydf

#3
May 12, 2014, 10:42:34 PM Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 10:45:18 PM by floydf
Quote from: slim on May 12, 2014, 10:33:35 PM
What's really awesome about Appleseed is we have a simple rule for shooting.

Sentence was a little too long.  Fixed it :)
"It is an uphill struggle, but I wish that we could distinguish more carefully between freedom and liberty. These conditions are not the same, though they are certainly related. Freedom is the absence of restraint - a physical circumstance. Liberty, on the other hand, is a political situation denoting the lawful capability of the citizen to defend himself and his near and dear without interference from the state. Note that the Declaration of Independence forcibly and particularly establishes the blessings of liberty upon ourselves and our posterity. I like to carry a pocket copy of the Declaration, plus the Constitution, in my travels. It is a good thing to have in hand when discussions arise."
-- Col. Jeff Cooper, Commentary

SureShotSpartan

#4
May 12, 2014, 11:08:54 PM
That's hilarious! Somewhere dond is smiling.
Bowman 7-13
Pelham 2-14
Calera 1-15
Pelham 2-19
____________

"It does not take a majority to prevail... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men. " -Samuel Adams

MostlyHarmless

#5
May 12, 2014, 11:35:20 PM
That is how I teach IMC.  ~~:)

Remember, a rifleman without a slide rule isn't.
"Alas!! I spy a shooting bench and stool ahead in yonder treeline. Perhaps also there is a forefather with a rifle. I fear an ambush!"
-not overheard during the British retreat from Concord, Apr 19, 1775

scoutcamper

#6
May 12, 2014, 11:42:43 PM
Quote from: MostlyHarmless on May 12, 2014, 11:35:20 PM
That is how I teach IMC.  ~~:)

Remember, a rifleman without a slide rule isn't.


Slide rule? PFFT!  &) Welcome to the 21'st century, TI84 for the win!  O0

MostlyHarmless

#7
May 12, 2014, 11:56:18 PM
Yeah, got one of those too. But if you haven't learned it on a slide rule, have you really learned it?

Iron sights and slide rules. Everything else will break on you. $$-0
"Alas!! I spy a shooting bench and stool ahead in yonder treeline. Perhaps also there is a forefather with a rifle. I fear an ambush!"
-not overheard during the British retreat from Concord, Apr 19, 1775

RedFox24

#8
May 13, 2014, 09:17:59 AM
No wonder that guy at Rural King was on his 8-12 boxes of slugs sighting in his shotgun for deer season. #) #) #) #) #) :wb: :wb: :wb: :wb: :wb: :wb: :wb: :wb: :wb: :wb: :wb:..........  Glad I got the Mudcat and Dond versions of IMC that did away with all that silliness at my first Appleseeds!  O0  ;D ^:)^
"Preparedness is not an event.  It's a continuous process." 
Dr. Julie Gerberding, Director, CDC

FFJim

#9
May 13, 2014, 10:47:24 AM
Quote from: MostlyHarmless on May 12, 2014, 11:35:20 PM
That is how I teach IMC.  ~~:)

Remember, a rifleman without a slide rule isn't.

Good to know MH! Can't wait to see your presentation at the next shoot.  ;D
FF Jim
Dundalk, MD

MostlyHarmless

#10
May 13, 2014, 01:11:41 PM
Quote from: FFJim on May 13, 2014, 10:47:24 AM
Good to know MH! Can't wait to see your presentation at the next shoot.  ;D

We'll cover Isaac Newton and Isaac Davis.

The time monkey had best pull himself up a chair....
"Alas!! I spy a shooting bench and stool ahead in yonder treeline. Perhaps also there is a forefather with a rifle. I fear an ambush!"
-not overheard during the British retreat from Concord, Apr 19, 1775

scoutcamper

#11
May 13, 2014, 01:19:42 PM
Quote from: MostlyHarmless on May 13, 2014, 01:11:41 PM
Quote from: FFJim on May 13, 2014, 10:47:24 AM
Good to know MH! Can't wait to see your presentation at the next shoot.  ;D

We'll cover Isaac Newton and Isaac Davis.

The time monkey had best pull himself up a chair....

Someone better get this on video. This i would love to see.

techres

#12
May 13, 2014, 01:32:56 PM
Just like teaching T ball.  Little kids take forever to compute coreolis effect not to mention spin drift.  It's amazing that they ever catch anything.
Appleseed: Bringing the Past into the Present to save our Future.

Maximum Ordinate

#13
May 13, 2014, 02:00:07 PM
Quote from: techres on May 13, 2014, 01:32:56 PM
Just like teaching T ball.  Little kids take forever to compute coreolis effect not to mention spin drift.  It's amazing that they ever catch anything.

You owe me a keyboard.  I just had to shake the diet coke out of mine.   **)
"If you're going to be a Rifleman, be a KD Rifleman.  We should all strive to be like Ephraim Brank."
-Ramblin' Wreck

We're in the Liberty business.  Stay on Mission & Stay on Message.

Want to be a more effective Instructor?  Visit Appleseed Academy.

smiledochill

#14
May 13, 2014, 04:10:07 PM
My problem is that my trig. symbols start looking the same when I'm doing equations in the dirt.  I'll get half way through all that then have to start all over. 

FFJim

#15
May 13, 2014, 05:22:01 PM
Quote from: MostlyHarmless on May 13, 2014, 01:11:41 PM
Quote from: FFJim on May 13, 2014, 10:47:24 AM
Good to know MH! Can't wait to see your presentation at the next shoot.  ;D

We'll cover Isaac Newton and Isaac Davis.

The time monkey had best pull himself up a chair....

The shoot would probably goes as long as the ones where the first strike starts out with... "Well, they decided to come up with this document called the Magna Carta"!!!!!  >:D
FF Jim
Dundalk, MD

MostlyHarmless

#16
May 13, 2014, 06:03:58 PM Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 06:34:06 PM by MostlyHarmless
Quote from: FFJim on May 13, 2014, 05:22:01 PM... "Well, they decided to come up with this document called the Magna Carta"!!!!!  >:D

First strike? My outline doesn't really cover the Magna Carta until well into the second.

It's hard to properly derive the liberty equation unless you start with the Magna Carta.  O0
"Alas!! I spy a shooting bench and stool ahead in yonder treeline. Perhaps also there is a forefather with a rifle. I fear an ambush!"
-not overheard during the British retreat from Concord, Apr 19, 1775

scoutcamper

#17
May 13, 2014, 08:03:19 PM
Quote from: MostlyHarmless on May 13, 2014, 06:03:58 PM
Quote from: FFJim on May 13, 2014, 05:22:01 PM... "Well, they decided to come up with this document called the Magna Carta"!!!!!  >:D

First strike? My outline doesn't really cover the Magna Carta until well into the second.

It's hard to properly derive the liberty equation unless you start with the Magna Carta.  O0

If you werent on the other side of the country from me I would go to one of the shoots you work, this sounds like fun  ;D

jmdavis

#18
May 13, 2014, 09:56:39 PM Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 10:01:40 PM by jmdavis
Once there was a philosophy of Liberty class that would run at some venues in the South where we couldn't shoot on Sunday until after noon or 1 pm. It was a well researched college level lecture that ran between 1.5 and 2 hours produced by one of Appleseed's best instructors. I'm guessing that I heard it sometime as a red hat in 2009 or so. It was an excellent look at the philosophy of liberty and freedom. And, since we couldn't shoot in that time and most Appleseeders would balk at 3 to 4 hours of dryfire, it worked pretty well.

We did other classes in those days too during that Sunday downtime. Classes like M1 maintenance and Ruger 10/22 maintenance. We once ran a parallel AR maintenance class at a Ramseur event as well. It was good stuff.

More information isn't a bad thing. And being able to engage a target precisely at the rifleman's 1/4 mile (or the Infantryman's Half Kilometer) and beyond is a good skill to have. While you don't need to compute Coriolis effect to shoot accurately at 500 meters. It may have some value out past 1000 meters.
"If a man does his best, what else is there?"  - General George S. Patton Jr

  ...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
  For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
  Shall be my brother...-Shakespeare, Henry V
 

"There's a great deal of talk about loyalty from the bottom to the top. Loyalty from the top down is even more necessary and is much less prevalent. One of the most frequently noted characteristics of great men who have remained great is loyalty to their subordinates."
- General George S. Patton, Jr

"Your body can't go where your mind hasn't been."
- Alex Arrieta 1995 NTI Winner

MostlyHarmless

#19
May 13, 2014, 10:42:07 PM
Quote from: scoutcamper on May 13, 2014, 08:03:19 PM
If you werent on the other side of the country from me I would go to one of the shoots you work, this sounds like fun  ;D

Jim manages to keep me on a fairly short leash- there's always more than enough stuff to cover on a weekend.  ::) But sooner or later I'm sure I'll get to encroach on his KD presentations, and then....

Doing a shoot in CA seems like it would be interesting and fun. Maybe I will see if I can work it in, next time I'm out there.
"Alas!! I spy a shooting bench and stool ahead in yonder treeline. Perhaps also there is a forefather with a rifle. I fear an ambush!"
-not overheard during the British retreat from Concord, Apr 19, 1775

olefido

#20
May 14, 2014, 11:38:00 AM
Quote from: MostlyHarmless on May 13, 2014, 06:03:58 PM
Quote from: FFJim on May 13, 2014, 05:22:01 PM... "Well, they decided to come up with this document called the Magna Carta"!!!!!  >:D

First strike? My outline doesn't really cover the Magna Carta until well into the second.

It's hard to properly derive the liberty equation unless you start with the Magna Carta.  O0
Yes, and we have video that was secretly smuggled out of that shoot....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQxsdjjA73I
"That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell

Surveyor1653

#21
May 14, 2014, 01:06:18 PM
Quote from: MostlyHarmless on May 12, 2014, 11:35:20 PM
That is how I teach IMC.  ~~:)

Remember, a rifleman without a slide rule isn't.

You don't know how happy I am that HSGI came out with their subgun pouches.  Now I have a tacticool way to carry my Made in Occupied Japan Sun Hemmi Post model 1452 slide rule.
Essayons!

"Liberty — the freedom from unwarranted intrusion by government — is as easily lost through insistent nibbles by government officials who seek to do their jobs as by those whose sole purpose it is to oppress; the piranha can be as deadly as the shark." - Judge Alex Kozinski, US 9th Circuit Court

fisherdawg

#22
May 14, 2014, 01:47:32 PM
Quote from: smiledochill on May 13, 2014, 04:10:07 PM
My problem is that my trig. symbols start looking the same when I'm doing equations in the dirt.  I'll get half way through all that then have to start all over.

+1
If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. (James Madison)

"Young man, what we meant in going for those Redcoats was this: we always had governed ourselves and we always meant to. They didn't mean we should."
(Captain Levi Preston, of the Danvers militia, at age 91, remembering the day)

That it is an indispensable duty which we owe to God, our country, ourselves and posterity, by all lawful ways and means in our power to maintain, defend and preserve those civil and religious rights and liberties, for which many of our fathers fought, bled and died, and to hand them down entire to future generations.  Suffolk Resolves, September 9, 1774, attributed to Dr. Joseph Warren

GTEngineer

#23
May 17, 2014, 10:52:03 PM
Quote from: SureShotSpartan on May 12, 2014, 11:08:54 PM
That's hilarious! Somewhere dond is smiling.

The engineer in me is planning on how to do this in the next event....  >:D >:D
"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might;..."
Ecclesiastes 9:10

1st Appleseed: Nov 16/17, 2013. Gurley, AL
2nd Appleseed IIT0: April 19, 2014.  Rising Fawn, GA

KD:
May 24/25, 2015. Manchester TN

RFKD:
Aug 20/21, 2022. Bothell WA

Requal:
Sept 30, 2017 Custer, WA
Feb 9, 2020 Redmond, WA
Apr 11, 2021 Redmond WA

Pistoleer:
Nov 23, 2019 Eagle Creek, OR

Pistoleer requal:
May 22, 2021 Parma, ID
Mar 12, 2023 Redmond, WA

NRA Rifle Instructor

hawkeye

#24
May 18, 2014, 08:57:10 AM
We need to add a second chalk board at Ransuer. The next IMC class should be interesting.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of crap by the clean end." Texas A&M student
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