Project Appleseed

Can someone give me some advice on step number six? 

I have attended one and a half Appleseeds and a KWSS before those, so I have had proper instruction.  Here's my problem.  I have an ingrained habit of releasing the trigger immediately after firing the shot instead of holding it back.  I don't take my finger off the trigger, I simply don't hold it back.  Actually, I think I allow the recoil to "bounce" the trigger and my finger forward.  I say this because when I focus solely on holding back the trigger with my LTR, there's no problem.  I have had "double taps" with am M1A because the recoil bounces the trigger forward and resets it, but since I am focusing on holding it back I pull the trigger back and fire a second round. 

I am quite sure this is how it is happening because with a intermediate round (Mini-30, 7.62x39) when I focus on holding it back, I can feel the trigger and my finger "bounce" forward but not enough to reset the sear, so there is no second shot.

Did I explain that as clearly as mud?

What am doing wrong?  I feel like when I am trying to hold the trigger back hard enough to not allow the "bounce", then I am tensing up my hand too much to make a good shot. 

Do I go back to my old habit (I have been shooting since I was 2 years old) and let the trigger bounce forward to avoid a double tap?  Again, I am NOT taking my finger off the trigger, I am just allowing the recoil to reset the trigger.

Any advice?  Thank you.

Clod

Clod,  If you have a ballpoint pen, you can use it to help with muscle memory. Click the pen and hold, then release it til it resets. Then do it again and repeat. You must also practice this during dry fire. Once you do this a few times remember the drill when you get behind the rifle. Muscle memory will help eliminate the trigger bounce.

   Dry fire, dry fire, dry fire, dry fire,dry fire, dry fire, dry fire,dry fire, dry fire, dry fire,dry fire, dry fire, dry fire,dry fire, dry fire, dry fire,dry fire, dry fire, dry fire,dry fire, dry fire, dry fire,dry fire, dry fire, dry fire,dry fire, dry fire, dry fire,dry fire, dry fire, dry fire,dry fire, dry fire, dry fire,dry fire, dry fire, dry fire,dry fire, dry fire, dry fire,dry fire, dry fire, dry fire,dry fire, dry fire, dry fire,dry fire, dry fire, dry fire.

   And then when you've got it ingrained by holding it back for a FULL SECOND a gazillion times dry firing.......dry fire some more. 

   And then at the range, get a buddy to watch you.  Good luck!  Proper trigger manipulation can make the difference between a 198 and a 214 on the AQT.  JB

I always let up on the trigger, too. 

It was a struggle for me to learn to hold it back (at the Feb. 07 RBC).  I finally "trained" myself to hold the trigger back till I had inhaled and to release it then.

good sling position
steps 1 through 4b
NPOA drill till satisfied (this comes faster and easier with practice)
confirm steps 1 through 4b (as needed)
exhale
fire the shot
inhale (and release the trigger just far enough to hear/feel the sear reset)
exhale
fire the shot
inhale (and release the trigger just far enough to hear/feel the sear reset)
repeat
repeat
repeat

That is what "spaces" the trigger release out from the trigger pull/firing the shot for me, that inhale step.

Works for me and a separate part of my mind smiles and confirms to my "rifle firing mind" that all is well when it comes together.  Hey, maybe that "separate part of my mind" is my rifleman mind trying to develop and take over still.  Perhaps when I get to the point that all the above is done without forcing it then I'll no longer hear that little voice telling me "all is well on the range today".

With the guys I have couched so far ,my being at there side telling them to follow thure seems to get anoying enough that they follow thure if for no other reson ,,so they won't keep hearing me say follow thure,,,,,I had the same problem at bootcamp Devilla 11 08 .

Wade

 I have been shooting M1's and M1A/M14 for many years and never had a double until I went to Boot Camp #1. The first couple of days,no doubles
Then one of the Instructors stuck his finger on top of mine and caused me to double twice. He said to follow through and then trying it, I had many doubles.
I have always been fast off the trigger and never doubled but all of a sudden it started as I was trying follow through.
What was happening , I was coming off the trigger and then thinking I had to hold it back and pulled again. This happened for several months until I found a cure.
I made up some dummy rds. and loaded them first into mags and then put a live rd. in last. 2 rds. total in each mag and started working on my problem. It took awhile but now I am cured. With the dummy in place you can tell exactly what you are doing.

Man, if you are allowing the recoil to "bounce" your finger forward then you are not controlling recoil. You control recoil by pulling the rifle back into your shoulder with your trigger hand. You should have a firm grip on the wrist and be pulling back into your shoulder as you shoot. Then apply pressure straight to the rear with your trigger finger on the trigger and continue to hold the rifle back against your shoulder as the rifle fires. All your muscles should be relaxed except for the muscles in your right arm pulling the rifle back into your shoulder. Your cheek should be pressed onto the top of the stock by the weight of your head, centering your eye behind the rear sight. This makes your head, your arm, the rifle and your shoulder one unit. Thats a lot of mass and it won't move far with recoil. Having a tight grip on the wrist will make it easier to hold the trigger back.

Now go back and re-read this reply about five or six time and try hard to understand what I am saying. If you do these things your trigger problems will be over.

VAshooter

When I have people who don't follow through, I have them say "followthrough" after each shot and keep their finger back until they're done talking.  This seems to be more annoying for them and less annoying to me than having me say it, so it's a win-win.   

Quote from: VAshooter on June 10, 2008, 02:59:31 PM
Man, if you are allowing the recoil to "bounce" your finger forward then you are not controlling recoil. You control recoil by pulling the rifle back into your shoulder with your trigger hand. You should have a firm grip on the wrist and be pulling back into your shoulder as you shoot. Then apply pressure straight to the rear with your trigger finger on the trigger and continue to hold the rifle back against your shoulder as the rifle fires. All your muscles should be relaxed except for the muscles in your right arm pulling the rifle back into your shoulder. Your cheek should be pressed onto the top of the stock by the weight of your head, centering your eye behind the rear sight. This makes your head, your arm, the rifle and your shoulder one unit. Thats a lot of mass and it won't move far with recoil. Having a tight grip on the wrist will make it easier to hold the trigger back.

Now go back and re-read this reply about five or six time and try hard to understand what I am saying. If you do these things your trigger problems will be over.

VAshooter

This may well be the case.  I am pulling the rifle back into my shoulder with my trigger hand, but maybe not enough.  Actually, my problem also feels somewhat similar to what Ken Grant described above.  Maybe it's a combination of the two. 

Thank you.  I will go back and make sure I am doing what you describe. 

Ok, back to dry fire practice...

Try the one live rd. and a dummy,it will work wonders. Get into position with 5 or 6 mags loaded with the dummy last up,shoot and then change mags after each shot.
It will really help you to see what you are doing.