Project Appleseed

My Sierra 5th manual gives 49.2 grains of Varget behind a 150 grain bullet giving 2800 fps. This load will match the USGI loading and Varget it listed with a burn rate similar to IMR 4895. It should give you no problems in an M1.

As always, never trust load data you get off the web.  Get yourself some good manuals

Quote from: douglas34474 on September 13, 2010, 10:37:19 PM
My Sierra 5th manual gives 49.2 grains of Varget behind a 150 grain bullet giving 2800 fps. This load will match the USGI loading and Varget it listed with a burn rate similar to IMR 4895. It should give you no problems in an M1.

As always, never trust load data you get off the web.  Get yourself some good manuals

Yep.  I've got a number of good manuals...about 5 of them.  But only the Hornady manual offers a Garand-specific load if I recall.

Varget is closer to IMR-4064 I thought...all are medium burning powders...just wanna make sure they won't spike the port pressure.

So 2800 FPS is milspec for 150gr Ball out of a Garand?

-David
Edgewood, NM

Most times i load H-380 for 150 grain bullets.

Yes, 2800 FPS for a 150 grain bullet is mil spec.

Well I *finally* got a chance to rework my loads for my Garand since switching bullet weights and powder.  I couldn't get IMR 4895 for too long, and so when the H4895 came in, I jumped on it - and turns out my Garand *really* likes that powder.   168GR Sierra Match Kings, HXP brass, and 45.5 grains of H4895 gave me an approx 1.5 MOA 5 round group with 3 rounds very nearly touching at 100 yards. 

Velocities were pretty moderate, average was 2597.4, spread of 36 FPS, and SD of 16.95. 

I think this will be my long range load for the Garand.

I've been waiting for a supply of H4895 myself, I plan to get started using the recipe you just listed.  From what I've read, the main difference between IMR and Hodgon 4895 is that the Hogdon's does a better job of staying consistent when it gets cold, which certainly applies right now

Where did you find H4895, and is there any chance that they still have some?

I picked up a couple of pounds the last time Sportsman's Warehouse had it in stock.  They are currently out, but I plan on swinging by on Wednesday night  (they get their shipments on Wed) to see if they have any more.

So, I finally got my hands on some powder, primers, and bullets, and a workbench worth of reloading tools has either arrived or is on it's way to my door.  I've spent weeks reading guides on one forum or another, and I've bought and read the Lyman guide and the ABC's of Reloading.  But before I start the major steps of the reloading process, I thought I'd ask some of my questions of the assembled gurus here.

1. I ended up with CCI #250 primers.  These are, at least in terms of combustion, a clone of the milspec #34 primers.  But, they're magnum primers, and none of the recipes I have call for magnum primers.  That question has been asked here, and also asked on the CMP forums, and the answer is always "sure, use them, but back off n grains."  Can I get a consensus on what n should be?

2. I have the Lyman manual, I've got a copy of the Garand page from the Hornady manual, I looked at the Speer manual in my local store today, and the IMR/Hodgon/Winchester loads are available online.  Plus lots of experts have their preferred recipes online.  There seems to be a pretty good consensus on 47 grains being a good load for my 168 grain bullets, and everyone seems to agree the maximum is somewhere between 48 and 50.  But starting loads are all over the map, from down at 41 grains all the way up to 46.5.  I assume that since the Hornady manual is the one that's specific for the Garand, I'd be advised to go with their starting load of 41.4 grains? (and then go even lower due to the #250 primers...)

3. Between here, the CMP forums, and some guides by famous shooters, I've read several good "rules of thumb" listed below.  What do the assembled gurus think of these from their experience?

• If using milsurp brass, remove 1 grain from the load
• If using IMR 4064 in a recipe that calls for 4895, add one grain
• If your goal is accuracy, particularly at "short range" of ~200 yards, drop one grain

4. I have brass from several sources: milsurp LC, KA, and HXP, American Eagle, Remington, as well as a bunch of Hornady cased ammo that will hopefully be once-fired after a KD shoot this weekend    Obviously I plan to sort by headstamp and work up loads for each, as what works well in LC probably won't perform the same in the American Eagle brass.  But how specific do I need to be?  Can I assume that all the milsurp will be generally the same?  Or do I need to go the opposite direction, and sort not just by source, but by year or group of years?

1With the magnum primers start powder charge low and work up.
2 41.4 4 should be good for starting with magnum primers.
For saftey figure that 47 grains could be max. a 10% reduction of that would be 47-4.7= 42.3 grains, drop another .9 grains for the magnum primer everything should be safe.
3 I'm going to skip
4 if your brass is from several sources then weight sort your brass.
Your sized/ trimmed brass shoud have the same outside diminension. Heavier peices of brass will have less volume and require less powder.

Really, just start with light powder charges, and look for signs of excees pressure. (half witchcraft in it's own right)
Do not exceed charges listed by reputable sources.
Experiment to find out what works in your rifle.

The variation in brass weight, and bullet weight may seem alarming.
Just good reason to use a moderate load of powder for a margin of saftey.

I wouldn't follow those "rules" in #3.

Just do what Mark mentioned, start low and work up, you'll be fine.

Separate the cases by brand and date.

I doubt you'll see enough difference in accuracy unless you're going to use a real accurate bolt gun.

Most semi-autos and factory (non special) bolt guns just don't have enough accuracy to see the difference in the brass.

That said, you MIGHT see a difference in zero, and you might not.

Expansion on#3.
A. Many years ago milsurp brass was American made to US military specifications,
Commerical was either winchesters, remingtons, or federals.

Now days milsurp could be made in any location in the world, the specifications could be to please any of many small governments, with varing needs, and various ways of greasing the inspector's palm.
Commerical manafactures also have expanded in quanity, with quality going both  better and worse.

Knowing the volume of your brass is not a big issue if you only have brass from one lot, or even one manafacturer.
If your brass comes from range pickups segretating your brass into lots of large volume and small volume could have benifits.
Your powder scale makes a good segerating tool.

B. I'm with Nickle, I woud not follow that rule.

C.I did that once, loaded ammo with  less powder for an appleseed. Save some recoil on me, and strecth the powder supply a bit.
Got snowed out and did not shoot all the light loaded ammo up.
Months later during a spree of cleaning the reloading room, that ammo got mixed in with my full power ammo. Months later when shooting the mixed ammo some variations were noticeable.
It's just so much easyer to load the same ammo for a rifle, and have confidence that your rifle will function and sight setting is valid.

Thanks for the responses.  I'm glad to see that your thoughts track with mine, apparently I'm getting a decent grasp on the basics.  I'd been leaning towards the 41 grain load to start, it's clearly a safe option, I just wasn't sure it was the right starting spot.  Those three "rules" seemed questionable to me, but they were from apparently respected source, so I wanted to throw them out and see what people here thought.

I had not considered segregating my brass by weight, that's a good tip.  Presumably I should do that after I resize and trim?  I would say that about half my existing brass is KA headstamps from the 70's, about half is LC headstamps, also from the 70's, and a small but growing percentage are shiny new Winchester cases.  Just from feel, the Winchester cases feel heavier and more solid, I'll have to see what the scale says.

Resizing won't change the weight, so before or after makes no difference.

Trimming does change the weight, so weigh before, and after and check the difference on paper (target paper).

I see this all the time today's reloading books are 10-20% lower then older books.

I ran 48.5gr I'm 4895 behind SMK 175. No problems. That was also military brass.
2750fps.
But my garand tip top. Not some rat grade.
As long as oprod isn't crap and tilt test works your garand can run hot stuff.
If your worry get a plug. $25 is cheap insurance.

Is it needed? only if you shoot 1000 yards and you can hold moa.
Other wise your betting your self up.

100-200 yard with people only being able to hold 3 moa you can shoot any light load doesn't matter much.

I think most reload books today are geared to beginners. Lawyers and what not.

I know this is an old thread but thought I'd add a thing or two. 

Since the majority of this thread deals with M1 Garand loading, for those who want to load light bullets, 110-130 grains, go over to the CMP reloading forum.  There is a TON of information from people that know more than me.  The speer 125 grain seems to be one if not the favorite bullet for light loads.  Some folks love the lighter bullets for  100-200 yard shooting.  One these days I'll get around to trying some light bullets in my M1.  Just because it's not USGI "spec" doesn't mean it won't be a good, safe load that will function 100%.

On another subject, the hornady manual (and probably others) have sections specifically for the Garand/M14 type rifles.  I think many make loading for these rifles much more difficult than it is in reality-to much "information" online now days.  No need to reinvent the wheel, load development for these rifles was done years ago.

Old thread but good info.  I just started reloading after I bought the basic equipment and dies a few months ago.  I bought dies for .30-06, .308, 300 AAC, 5.56x45, and .45 acp.

I have only loaded .45 ACP (for fun) and 300 Blackout ammo because that is the only caliber that I can shoot that did not have a source of cheap factory ammo available.

I have processed a lot of my once fired Greek ammo from my M1 Garand and was wondering if anyone had ever tried using accelerators in the reloads.  Accelerators are just plastic sabots that allow you to load a .224 round in a .308 caliber case.  They used to be a big fad many years ago.  You can still find them online from third party manufacturers.  These accelerators allow a 30 caliber rifle to push a heavy .224 round down range at 4,000+ fps with a light powder load.  I have fired them in a bolt action .308 and they work well.  I do not own a semi-auto .308 to test them in.

What are some good loads for the m1 garand? I plan on picking one up from cmp. Was told ya can't use the current loading since they are suited for bolt actions. They'd otherwise damage the rifle unless loaded down or with similar ball powder at a lower pressure.

Hodgdon reloading data center has specific loads for m1 grand.  Would start there

Quote from: Moab on November 11, 2023, 09:59:56 AM
What are some good loads for the m1 garand? I plan on picking one up from cmp. Was told ya can't use the current loading since they are suited for bolt actions. They'd otherwise damage the rifle unless loaded down or with similar ball powder at a lower pressure.

Saved from an older website:

Recommended .30 caliber M1 loadings from the NRA


147 - 155 grain FMJ or HPBT bullets

IMR 3031 - 48.0 grains
IMR 4895 - 49.0 grains
IMR 4064 - 50.0 grains
W748 - 48.0 grains
AA2460 - 49.0 grains
AA2520 - 51.0 grains
AA2495 - 50.5 grains
H4895 - 49.0 grains
BLC-2 - 49.0 grains
H335 - 49.0 grains
RL-12 - 48.0 grains

165/168 grain FMJ, HP or SP bullets

IMR 4895 - 47.0 grains
IMR 4094 - 48.0 grains
AA2520 - 47.5 grains
AA2495 - 47.0 grains
H4895 - 47.5 grains
BLC-2 - 49.0 grains
H335 - 47.0 grains
RL-12 - 44.5 grains

173/175 grain FMJ or HPBT bullets

IMR 4895 - 46.0 grains
IMR 4064 - 47.0 grains
AA2460 - 46.0 grains
AA2495 - 46.0 grains
H4895 - 47.0 grains
BLC-2 - 48.0 grains

180 grain FMJ, SP or HPBT bullets

IMR 4895 - 43.0 grains
AA2460 - 46.5 grains
AA2495 - 45.5 grains
H4895 - 44.0 grains
BLC-2 - 47.5 grains
RL-12 - 41.5 grains



Master Po's comments

These loads only duplicate military spec. velocities for the given bullet weight, using commercial cases and powders. If you are using military cases, drop all charges by 2 grains.

If you are looking for accuracy, drop all charges by 1 grain and work up .2 grains at a time.

Master Po's Ancient M1 load secret

This is my personal M1 load I use in my CMP M1. It will shoot better than Master Po can. I worked this load up, as you should for your own rifle.

Remington .30/06 cases, flash holes deburred and weighed within 1 grain.
Federal GM210M Primers (Master Po has heard the horror stories of Federal match primers in the M1/M1A rifles. If you're squeamish or new to reloading, use Winchester Large Rifle)
47.0 grains IMR 4064
Sierra 175 grain MatchKing
Overall length 3.340 inches

This load, in my M1, duplicates almost perfectly the M72 match load specification with a very low standard deviation. Groups off the bench run 1 - 1.5 inches with the original 1945 barrel on the rifle. Of course, Grasshopper YMMV.

Been looking for that all day.  FWIW:  before Hodgdon had specific reloading data on the Garand, I used Master Po's recipes.

Quote from: Guns&Hoses on November 11, 2023, 04:28:52 PM

Quote from: Moab on November 11, 2023, 09:59:56 AM
What are some good loads for the m1 garand? I plan on picking one up from cmp. Was told ya can't use the current loading since they are suited for bolt actions. They'd otherwise damage the rifle unless loaded down or with similar ball powder at a lower pressure.

Saved from an older website:

Recommended .30 caliber M1 loadings from the NRA


147 - 155 grain FMJ or HPBT bullets

IMR 3031 - 48.0 grains
IMR 4895 - 49.0 grains
IMR 4064 - 50.0 grains
W748 - 48.0 grains
AA2460 - 49.0 grains
AA2520 - 51.0 grains
AA2495 - 50.5 grains
H4895 - 49.0 grains
BLC-2 - 49.0 grains
H335 - 49.0 grains
RL-12 - 48.0 grains

165/168 grain FMJ, HP or SP bullets

IMR 4895 - 47.0 grains
IMR 4094 - 48.0 grains
AA2520 - 47.5 grains
AA2495 - 47.0 grains
H4895 - 47.5 grains
BLC-2 - 49.0 grains
H335 - 47.0 grains
RL-12 - 44.5 grains

173/175 grain FMJ or HPBT bullets

IMR 4895 - 46.0 grains
IMR 4064 - 47.0 grains
AA2460 - 46.0 grains
AA2495 - 46.0 grains
H4895 - 47.0 grains
BLC-2 - 48.0 grains

180 grain FMJ, SP or HPBT bullets

IMR 4895 - 43.0 grains
AA2460 - 46.5 grains
AA2495 - 45.5 grains
H4895 - 44.0 grains
BLC-2 - 47.5 grains
RL-12 - 41.5 grains



Master Po's comments

These loads only duplicate military spec. velocities for the given bullet weight, using commercial cases and powders. If you are using military cases, drop all charges by 2 grains.

If you are looking for accuracy, drop all charges by 1 grain and work up .2 grains at a time.

Master Po's Ancient M1 load secret

This is my personal M1 load I use in my CMP M1. It will shoot better than Master Po can. I worked this load up, as you should for your own rifle.

Remington .30/06 cases, flash holes deburred and weighed within 1 grain.
Federal GM210M Primers (Master Po has heard the horror stories of Federal match primers in the M1/M1A rifles. If you're squeamish or new to reloading, use Winchester Large Rifle)
47.0 grains IMR 4064
Sierra 175 grain MatchKing
Overall length 3.340 inches

This load, in my M1, duplicates almost perfectly the M72 match load specification with a very low standard deviation. Groups off the bench run 1 - 1.5 inches with the original 1945 barrel on the rifle. Of course, Grasshopper YMMV.

Oh great Master Po,

Federal, in its foolishness, seems to have discontinued the Vital-Shok BTSP ammunition that features the GameKing. In fact, Federal does not seem to be using any Sierra bullets. It is good the masters teach such traditional wisdom to the tadpoles when others abandon it.