Project Appleseed

All,

I received the following from the CMP this morning:

SHIPPING & HANDLING PRICE INCREASE DELAYED: In the CMP Sales Update of 4 April, 2008, we informed our customers that S&H charges would increase by 5% effective 1 June, 2008. Since FedEx has agreed to not raise prices for us at this time, we are delaying any S&H price increase for at least the rest of 2008.

AMMUNITION PURCHASE LIMIT: During the past 60 days we have experienced a ten-fold increase in orders for HXP .30-06 ammunition. This activity has significantly reduced our inventory. To ensure that the current inventory last another few years, effective immediately we are establishing an individual maximum purchase limit of ten cases of .30-06 HXP item # 407-Case and 10 cases of item # 415 per year.

NEW HXP .30-06 AMMUNITION PRICES:  New prices are: Item #407-Case - $238 per case; item #407-Can - $60 per can; item #415 - $134 per case; item #415-CN $67 per can. New prices are effective 5 May, 2008. CMP will honor the old price for all orders already received, but not yet processed.

NEW HXP .30-06 AMMUNITION OPTIONS AVAILABLE BEGINNING 1 JUNE 2008.
Item # 415BCAN. 400 rds. 20 rds per carton, 20 cartons in .50 cal ammo can. $100.00. S&H $16.00 per can.
Item # 415DCAN. 192 rds in 8 rd clips and bandoleers in .30 cal ammo can. $54.00. S&H $9.60 per can.
Item # 415ABOX. 400 rds. 20 rds per carton, 20 cartons in cardboard box. $96.00. SH $16.00 per box.

FYI, YMMV,
hawkhavn

So has the surplus ammo price been effected?   

Quote from: SGTCap on April 27, 2008, 01:25:41 PM
So has the surplus ammo price been effected?   

SGTCap,

WHAT surplus ammo prices?

HXP is Greek Surplus made there on machinery Winchester sold them.

The USGI LC has been gone from the CMP for a little over a year now.

Or are you talking that Korean stuff and other stuff that has been around of questionable quality?

Buckshot

hawkhavn,

Not all that rationed!

10 cases of HXP-407 = 407-case is 768 rounds per case.  10 cases would be 7,680 rounds.

10 of the #415 = #415 case is 400 rounds.  10 cases would be 4,000 rounds.

Total of the two (it appears they permit purchase of 10 of each per year) would be 11,680 rounds per year.

Not really much of a rationing for an individual, though it might put a dent in resale.

Buckshot

Yup, there's a lot of companies out there buying it from the CMP and then reselling it for $20 to $30 more a case.  Everybody wants to make a buck, or twenty.  Once the CMP stock is gone that ammo will double or triple in price like all the rest of it.

This does not relate specifically  to 30-06 but to 308 also.  Does anyone think the class 3 crowd is using it all up?  I was a Knob creek last yr,  can not believe how much 308 was pissed away.  Nothing anyone can do about it,  being really rich means you can afford to do want you want.  And I Would not have it any other way.  Just a thought.

tony

If anything the class III'ers around here have been cutting back more than others.   Their shoots have fewer and fewer participants and are not lasting near as long.

Ammo prices are simply a reflection of the decline in the US Dollar.  Most commodities are up, including those that go into ammo.  One way to think about it is that prices on 308 were ~$.40 a round last year and are ~$.50 this year, approximately a 25% rise.  Precious metals, food, and energy are up by similar amounts. So the price of ammo is simply an indication of the price increases in the underlying commodities driven by increases in the money supply (monetary inflation). 

For the same reason, the House voted yesterday to remove the zinc and remaining copper from pennies and the nickel and copper from, well, what is currently called a nickel.  That's right, they voted to switch to steel pennies and nickels just like many shooters are switching from brass to steel cased cartridges.

Below are some charts showing the rises in copper, nickel, and lead over the last five years.  Looks a lot like the rise in ammo prices.  So unless this monetary inflation is brought under control, we can expect to see ammo prices continue to climb.  Boy that .22 Liberty Trainer is looking better and better each day. 

Quote from: sur+rifle on May 10, 2008, 02:06:31 AM
If anything the class III'ers around here have been cutting back more than others.   Their shoots have fewer and fewer participants and are not lasting near as long.

Ammo prices are simply a reflection of the decline in the US Dollar.  Most commodities are up, including those that go into ammo.  One way to think about it is that prices on 308 were ~$.40 a round last year and are ~$.50 this year, approximately a 25% rise.  Precious metals, food, and energy are up by similar amounts. So the price of ammo is simply an indication of the price increases in the underlying commodities driven by increases in the money supply (monetary inflation). 

For the same reason, the House voted yesterday to remove the zinc and remaining copper from pennies and the nickel and copper from, well, what is currently called a nickel.  That's right, they voted to switch to steel pennies and nickels just like many shooters are switching from brass to steel cased cartridges.

Below are some charts showing the rises in copper, nickel, and lead over the last five years.  Looks a lot like the rise in ammo prices.  So unless this monetary inflation is brought under control, we can expect to see ammo prices continue to climb.  Boy that .22 Liberty Trainer is looking better and better each day. 

You words are like a breath of fresh air...  I love it when shooters "get it" with regards to the economy and inflation.  Yes, Congress even passed some additional legislation last year further prohibiting the melting down of nickle's because the metal in the coin was worth more than the face value on the coin.

You also need to realize that the UN is paying countries to DESTROY their surplus ammo rather than sell it off.

Also, they got nailed big time by South Africa on this.  They paid South Africa to destroy a bunch of 7.62 X 51 NATO, 5.56 X 45 and .303 British (7.7 X something, I can't remember) and then South Africa or someone there turned around and sold the ammo off surplus AFTER the UN paid for it's destruction.  That is why there is no more of the good SA surplus in any of these calibers.

That is also why much of the 7.62 X 54r is drying up.  UN paying for it's destruction, and after South Africa got over on them, paying much more attention to the actual destruction of the ammo.

I am NOT arguing against any of the other statements about economics, because I can't, but this is an additional factor that is causing milsurp shooters problems here in the US.

Buckshot

Hey sur+rifle.

Thanks for the info.  The charts on metals was great.  Yes the dollar, being a fiat currency is very low right now.  Maybe forever.  Personally I think its time to devalue by 1 decimal point.  That would really let everyone know what we really have.

coly

Quote from: Buckshot on May 11, 2008, 02:43:34 AM
You also need to realize that the UN is paying countries to DESTROY their surplus ammo rather than sell it off.

Indeed.  There are several other factors at play including the demand due to the wars and the administration delaying import paperwork.  But the price of commodities is the driving force for much of it.

On a related topic, Tom Gresham is now urging his "Gun Talk" listeners to start purchasing extra magazines.  I've come to trust him on things like this as he is very hooked into the manufacturers and retailers.  Apparently demand for mags has already started to rise in anticipation of a future hi-cap mag ban and so the retailers/manufacturers will be raising prices soon.  He also said that the ammo manufacturers are signaling another price increase of at least 15% coming up.

Got three cases I will sell and deliver to RAmseur Range.
See the following:
NLU 407-CAN - Greek .30-06 ammunition. HXP (Pyrkal) manufacture. Bullet attracts magnet.  Boxer primed. Packaged in 8 round clips in bandoleers. 192 rounds per spam can. Price per individual can $80.00 or wooden case at $240.00 for case of four spam cans in wooden cases.....un-opened. I have three cases for sale.
I have one case that has been opened and one spam can that has been opened. That spam can has all the ammo still in bandoleers and sells for $60.00. That case sells for flat $200.00 if you want the whole case.

Contact:
Ed Canupp Apex, NC 27502
ecanupp@nc.rr.com
(919) 606-4132
CASH ONLY
Recently bought from CMP at Creedmore/Butner Eastern Games, May 2008.  Reason for selling this ammo is that hard times have forced the sell of Garand Rifles.  My loss in your gain, no shipping charges or sales tax on this ammo.  Since this is mil surplus ammo there is no warranty expressed or implied, AS IS!
Read all about this ammo at:
http://odcmp.com/ammo.htm

     Sorry to have to post this, but the ammo has been spoken for - some people from Ramseur bought it... 

Outf@#$%&gstanding!!! Someone at that range gets it!

INFO:  As of, I believe last week, CMP dropped the ammo rationing.

Well,
it boils down to this....you shoot what you can afford.......

One of the reasons Fred added .22LR to the list of ammo for AS, is that it gets past the "I can't afford all that ammo for a weekend" cry of many with a .308 anything......

Personally, (and you know this already ARC)  my feeling & observations are that peashooters are just that......terminal ballistics tell their own tale, & the cost per round on that are beyond substitution. 

TTYS
LLP

Quote from: Arc on October 09, 2008, 11:26:52 PM
Doesn't all this ammo and dollar devaluing combined with inflation make 5.56x45 and 9x19mm more appealing? 

It would for 9mm, but 5.56 is not much less expensive than 7.62x51, excepting the Prvi Partisan M193 55gr FMJBT stuff--which isn't bad ammo by any means, but it does tend to run $340/k or more, depending on where it's purchased.

But with .22lr still at <$15/550, a .22lr LTR looks REALLY good...

QuoteDoesn't all this ammo and dollar devaluing combined with inflation make 5.56x45 and 9x19mm more appealing?

Most of our ammo is coming in from overseas these days.  Even the military is having to buy from IMI for a lot of their requirements.  Our domestic companies have pretty limited production facilities adn routinely import to meet their needs, and they have for years.     The domestics that we are used to, Winchester, Federal, Remington  are NOT going to invest in new tooling to meet production requirements, even for the Military.  Win adn rem were so heavily invested after WWI that tehy both went bankrupt and nearly did so during WWII. Only thing that saved them was the GOCO program.

No saving on buying 9mm and 5.56.  IIRC WWB is made for Winchester by S&B adn suffers from teh dollar devaluation pretty badly, and increased transportation costs with the high oil prices.  As an example you used to buy WWB 9mm for less than $10/100. Now its well over $20.

It would be great for Americans to discontinue the practice of thinking about things in terms of rising prices, but, instead, to realise that it really is the decline in purchasing power of the paper money. After all the paper equivalent to the value of a an American Eagle Silver dollar will buy more today than it would back in the 60s. In fact right now in most places it'll get you 10 gallons of gas when in 1964 it would only buy 4 gallons.

Another thing that they ought to take into consideration is the steady daily payment of $2 billion dollars in interest being sent to the international gang banksters operating as the Federal Reserve for the privilege of using money that is in direct controversy with the Constitution. You remember that document, don't you? It's that thing that most of us offered an oath to uphold and defend against all enemies foreign and domestic. I've never received any form of a release from that oath. Has anyone else?