Project Appleseed

Today I was finally able to shoot my new LTR made from my old 10/22. I started with the tech sight but it appears my eyes are not as strong as once they were and I had a terrible time with both the rear and front blurring. I figured this may be the case as I have had issue with the V notched sights on my other rifles. Looks like time to gets some new glasses 

Now I have not yet been to an AS but have been doing research for a couple weeks and watching youtube vids and I saw one on using the sling. I ordered a cotton sling from the AS store and have it installed on my LTR. I must admit I have been raised in the country where a rifle is a young boys birth right , hunted all my life thus far, military service and POST certified and have never been taught the importance of using a sling so I kept an open mind and I was completely amazed! I was like " WHAT!! How come no one has shown me this before?"

I only worked in the standing position today making sure my "chicken wing " was parallel and sling was setup right. Never have I been that stable in the standing unsupported position. I mean wow! I cant tell you how much confidence this gave me in the of the sling!

Can ya'll suggest a standard of practice/drill till I make a seed in June?

Is there a drill listed somewhere on the site?

Sorry if this post is nubbish but dang it boy I had a great time shooting this evening and again completely amazed!

get to an Appleseed.  the first day is nothing but teaching the kind of fundamentals you are talking about and having instructors come up and work with you on these kinds of things.  there is a lot that goes into taking that really precise shot from the standing position, like you Natural Point of Aim, the 6 Steps of firing the shot, and knowing how to shift that shot around without using muscles.  We teach it all and more.  Sounds to me like you need to find the nearest Seed ASAP 

That's great to hear shane! I've run in to a lot of people who will refuse to use the sling because "they know how to shoot". It's good to see a someone who will be coming into their first Appleseed as a sling advocate!

Out of curiosity, which videos are you watching on YouTube regarding sling use? Just want to make sure that they're teaching it in the same way that it's taught at Appleseed.

Regarding drills, the one thing that you'll get repeatedly pounded into you is dryfire practice First, make sure that your gun is unloaded. I wouldn't even put in an empty mag. Find yourself a nice long hallway with an outlet at the end of it. Get into your position and take your time going through the six steps to taking a shot (print them out from Fred's website here: http://www.fredsm14stocks.com/rifle.asp?ITEM=2). If you do this four to five times a week for ten or fifteen minutes, you'll be in a really good spot.

Additionally, I had someone suggest to me that good practice for holding my rifle steady in standing position is to practice while I'm sitting on the couch watching TV. Haven't tried this yet though, so I can't vouch for it.

However, as much practice as you do at home, nothing can replace the instruction you'll receive at an Appleseed event. They're some of the best marksmanship instructors out there. I'd suggest you try and get out to an AS a lot sooner if you can.

Best of luck to you!

I am familiar with the 6 steps having heard them from the apple seed radio podcast and from Freds site as well. I went through them each shot today and they are pretty much what i have been taught through the years, just minus the sling. NPOA was taught to me by my grand dad and father as a young man but was not called such. Use my breathing to adjust as well as body movements for NPOA.

I have been giving serious thought to dry fire practice and have read in upwards of 75-90% of practice being devoted to it. I am fortunate to have a lot of land and can walk out the back of the house to practice anytime but it would be cheaper to dry fire lol !

I cant make an AS till June. No way around that one as I am on sick leave recovering from knee surgery. looking to be released around May.

The video on youtube were posted by AZAPPLESEED  The link will take you to his youtube channel. several good vids including Paul Revere and the 6 step shot

http://www.youtube.com/user/AZAPPLESEED?feature=watch

All this "sling talk" has me remembering a past AS where I still hear in my head the shoot boss saying "Tighten that sling! Tighten that sling!"  Between the rain, cold, and mud this proved to be a challenge at times! 

Hope your recovery is a speedy quick one and you can get out on the line soon! 

the sling is a amazing tool for sure.  use it properly and it steadies you up so much it isn't funny. definitely check out a seed and you will be amazed.

Shane,
Glad to hear you are studying what is available and attempting to implement it before you can get to your first Appleseed. I wish you well in your recovery. The proportion of dry fire to live fire you mention is about right. Besides being cheaper, which is certainly a benefit, it is not the only one. Your mind and body do not know the difference between dry fire and sending rounds down range. The mechanics are identical. In fact dry firing may actually be more beneficial as you have plenty of time to go through the acquisition of NPOA, mag changes, calling your shot, and my personal favorite getting your body 'conditioned' to the physical aspects of shooting. Keep reading and practicing as you are doing. The only real risk you may run is not executing properly and that is where the benefit of eye ball to eye ball instruction shines. As has been said get to an Appleseed as soon as you can, but, there is no reason not to work on your skills in the meantime. Good luck, and let us know how you are doing.

Thanks guys and GE you make a good point about the mind not knowing the difference.  Conditioning is defiantly needed. yesterday I was steady and shot well from standing ,although I had to go very slow to do so. Today I had a difficult time with keep steady from standing and noticed I could not hold the weapon as long as yesterday. Conditioning will help strengthen the muscles and add to muscle memory I am betting.

Quote from: Barbie on March 10, 2012, 11:45:58 AM
All this "sling talk" has me remembering a past AS where I still hear in my head the shoot boss saying "Tighten that sling! Tighten that sling!"  Between the rain, cold, and mud this proved to be a challenge at times! 

     The official AS position on "sling tightness" is "snug, not tight - and not too loose". Hope your SB was able to make that clear, in between shouting "Tighten that sling!"

Like you Shane, I was completely amazed the first time I saw stable NPOA with the sling.  There it was, the crosshairs right on target with no muscle input.  Crosshairs moving up and down vertically with breathing.   It was like me sitting there on the living room floor with cartoon light bulb suspended in mid air over my head!

FWIW, I had to spent a week or two getting in and out of the various positions on the living room floor before I was flexible enough to drop naturally into the positions.  After I attained the necessary flexibility,  I was able to work on sling attachment and tightness, and yes "snug", or perhaps a shade or two on the tighter side of snug, made things come together for me.  The living room floor turned out to be the perfect place for real-time experimentation (loosen sling then see where NPOA is, tighten sling then see where NPOA is...) and allowed me to get a good bead on sling attachment geometry and tightness.

I also have some space out back to shoot, and found that what I saw in the living room translated directly to hits on the target.  However, I made a point of not shooting too much prior to my AppleSeed, as I wanted to make sure that any Noob-Ness Bad Habits (like draggin' wood), didn't get in the way of actual instruction by the great guys at the class.

Quote from: Fred on March 11, 2012, 08:08:40 AM

Quote from: Barbie on March 10, 2012, 11:45:58 AM
All this "sling talk" has me remembering a past AS where I still hear in my head the shoot boss saying "Tighten that sling! Tighten that sling!"  Between the rain, cold, and mud this proved to be a challenge at times! 

     The official AS position on "sling tightness" is "snug, not tight - and not too loose". Hope your SB was able to make that clear, in between shouting "Tighten that sling!"

No worries, they did!  (I guess I should have been a tad more clear... tighten it up so it's nice and snug)   

At my first Appleseed, I had a simple 1" nylon web carrying sling, which could only be used as a "hasty" or "hasty hasty".  Before this one, I added 1 1/4" swivels and a USGI surplus cotton web sling, and learned at the shoot the proper way of rigging the loop sling. My score jumped 40 points immediately.  I'm getting a couple of more GI slings for my other rifles.   

the sling is a impressive tool when used right that is for sure.  it's amazing.

Spent my entire life as a hunter and shooter (until Appleseed) with only the most basic grasp of using a Hasty sling, and without knowing NPOA or the loop sling at all. I'm now convinced that a lot of the shots I made (and a lot more I missed) were do to luck when I hit, and poor fundamentals when I didn't.

It's AMAZING how a single AS with a good instructor team coaching you can turn a "fair to decent" shooter into a legitimate marksman by simply getting the mechanical flaws of improper technique ironed out.

Shane,

Did you get your blurred vision worked out?
Shooting Pistol, I need mild reading glasses to have the front sight in focus.
I found Safety glasses with +1.5 magnification (full frame)
Leaves the target a little blurry

Shane and all the other newbies (description of fact, not a put-down)-

You need to remember that the eye CANNOT focus on the rear sight, front sight, and target at the same time.

Hence the step, focus the eye on the FRONT SIGHT.  The other two will (of necessity) be blurry.

Young eyes can sometimes shift focus quickly enough that it SEEMS that they can focus on the front sight and the target at the same time, although they are not really doing that.  Older eyes do not change focus so quickly, so the problem becomes more apparent. 

Normal aging makes it difficult to impossible to focus on the front sight at all, even while concentrating on it, so a corrective lens is needed.  Choose the (lowest practical) strength that makes it barely possible to focus on the front sight, so the target will appear blurry but will not completely disappear.

Yes, is is amazing how well this works.

All the best on your recovery, and we'll see you "on the trail" as soon as practical.

And, just remember, "shoot the fuzz, you'll hit the fuzz". That does work.

You don't need to see the target to hit it, you just need to know where it is.

One more thing. What we teach is the base. Don't be afraid to try other things if you think they might help you shoot better. Tweak the SHFs. No two people are the same. The SHFs don't work perfectly for anybody. They just work decent for almost everybody. Use them as a base, and find what works for you.

Welcome to Appleseed, and enjoy your journey!


Edited for clarity.

To clarify.....

Wearing full frame magnification lenses makes the Target ALWAYS a little blurry.
Even when you are focused on the target.

As mentioned already, Use the least amount of magnification possible so your distance vision isn't too hampered.

I have experimented with using magnification only on my dominant eye and I liked it

You want a drill?  Aside from dryfire:

Put up a 1" square (or sheet of 1" squares) at 25 yards.

Take one shot (prone), until you can put that one shot in the square at which you're aiming every time.  (relax)

Then take two shots fired in cadence with your breathing.  When you can reliably put those two shots in one square, move up to three.

If you can put three shots reliably in a 1" square fired in cadence with your breathing (one shot per one breath), then it's pretty much just window dressing to shoot expert on the AQT.

Don't rush the drill.  Don't go to two squares until you can hit the square reliably on the first shot.  (This may take position adjustment, sight adjustment, etc.)  If you don't know how to do those things, then it might be best to attend a clinic first, or else you'll just be practicing bad habits.  This is perhaps a drill best recommended after you've assimilated some more marksmanship instruction, but it sounds like you have at least some of the fundamentals.  And you wanted a drill.

I told her I was going under my "school sports" rules.  That is, no coaching or hollering from me, apart from "Yay!"  The instructors will handle the instruction.  But when she asked, "Do I have to use the sling?" I thought about how far we'd driven, what other things we could be doing that we were giving up to be at an Appleseed shoot, and I said, "Yep."  I wasn't gonna waste that chance.

When she pays for her own ammo and chips in for gas, she can shoot how she likes at AS.   

Apart from that, I was able to refrain from interfering. 

Quote from: jimmythegeek on May 08, 2012, 04:21:00 PM
I told her I was going under my "school sports" rules.  That is, no coaching or hollering from me, apart from "Yay!"  The instructors will handle the instruction.  But when she asked, "Do I have to use the sling?" I thought about how far we'd driven, what other things we could be doing that we were giving up to be at an Appleseed shoot, and I said, "Yep."  I wasn't gonna waste that chance.

When she pays for her own ammo and chips in for gas, she can shoot how she likes at AS.   

Apart from that, I was able to refrain from interfering.

"Embrace the sling.  Become one with the sling.  The sling is your friend..."