Project Appleseed

Hmmm, I thought that most 22lr cartridges reached full burn around 16-17 inches. Wouldn't that mean that the 20" 10/22 might actually sling the same bullet just a touch slower due to the extra friction (in theory)?  Then again, in Theory, theory and practice are the same. In Practice, they're not.  ;-)

Redwolf, you'll most certainly benefit from the longer sight radius of the rifle.

Quote from: Redwolf on February 02, 2008, 09:10:44 PM
Ok? Need thoughts or ideas on the 10/22 rifle or carbine.  Is the difference in accuracy noticeable.

No. Accuracy will vary more between individual barrels than between particular lengths. Three of my four most accurate .22 rifles have the longest barrels (24, 25, and 26 inches), but the trend in .22 benchrest these days is for shorter barrels--16 to 18 inches, 20 tops.

Velocity will actually be higher in the shorter (16" is legal minimum) .22 barrels.

Buy either you want based on looks, balance, price, or any other consideration you wish without regard to accuracy or velocity. You'll never notice the difference, if any.

Oh, the longer a .22 barrel is, the quieter the rifle will be. Not that ANY of them make all THAT much noise.

  For the LTR, the length of the barrel is considered for:

       Longer barrel = longer sight radius, and

       Longer barrel with that slow bullet = WILL train you to follow through

   Even then, there's not enough difference that the average guy would notice. The average guy will never shoot up to the accuracy potential of the rifle, out of the box anyway, carbine or 22".   JB

Good stuff.  I like the idea of the follow through and the longer sight radius. Sound like that would be good practice when you go for putting the 308 out at 500. Of course carbine dose have a good feel.
We have the stainless 18.5 and the 22". Wally World has them for 218 or 238.
I know that with all these shooters some one has to have tried to reach out and see what they can do. The plan is to get one for Ramseur this month. Thanks

On this thread there was mention of using a Ar 15 windage knob on the Tech sights. I have both & the sights look great but I don't see that the knob will work.

Any ideas ?

Thanks

Quote from: dave on February 04, 2008, 12:09:42 AM
Any ideas ?

Yes. I don't mean to sound like a smartass, but readily adjustable windage on a .22 just isn't critical IMHO. Set your sights up on a wind-free day at your desired range (I like 50 yards for irons on a .22), and then leave them alone. I find that to be the simplest way to handle the problem.

Quote from: dave on February 04, 2008, 12:09:42 AM
On this thread there was mention of using a Ar 15 windage knob on the Tech sights. I have both & the sights look great but I don't see that the knob will work.

I picked up the DPMS knob and it won't really work. I Tech Sights use a post detent, but the DPMS seems to want a ball detent so it can turn.

Currently I am using this: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=260328&t=11082005

Yup, got the same one for adjusting the windage on the rear sight and got this one http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=304696  for adjusting elevation on the front sight.

Since they work for the AR type rifles as well I take them to an Appleseed when I go.

I checked at Midway this morning and they were listed as sold out, backorder ok. I just got my Tech sights yesterday and couldn't wait so I adjusted windage with a very small punch and a screwdriver. Used the small punch and a Glock punch for the front sight elevation and the Glock punch for elevation on the rear sight. It is very slow and you have to be careful not to scatch things up but it works in a pinch.

 Glad to know I wasn't missing something
I figured that, once set, the windage wouldn't be fooled with much. But it seems like a really cool idea to have it set up with the windage knob.

I noticed Tech Sights sells a tool similar to the one mentioned. I "knew" I should have ordered one:)

I have been setting up LTRs for my self & a couple of other guys that have gotten interested in AS. At least 2 of us will be in Corona Ca.

I do appreciate the help guys . 

dave

I've only shot 3 kinds of .22 ammo in mine so I haven't see a need to make windage or elevation adjustments for that (but could some day).  Mine has been through a lot of adjustment due to loaining it out at Appleseeds.  Seems nobody shoots it to the same POA so sight adjustments are necessary to get them on the target.  Then I have to put it back afterwards.  By the way, it helps if you do the sight adjustments so you can keep track of where to put it back to if you want to be able to pull it out of the case and use it yourself.

Quote from: M1A4ME on February 05, 2008, 12:14:06 PM
Mine has been through a lot of adjustment due to loaining it out at Appleseeds.  Seems nobody shoots it to the same POA so sight adjustments are necessary to get them on the target.  Then I have to put it back afterwards.  By the way, it helps if you do the sight adjustments so you can keep track of where to put it back to if you want to be able to pull it out of the case and use it yourself.

Point taken. 

Quote from: Nickle on August 13, 2007, 09:30:18 PM
Well, here's what I did (or will do, in the case of a couple items), the cost of the items, and this is a decent priced, working setup. All prices are retail. They are not special or sale prices, nor are they group buy prices. These are 24/7/365 retail prices.

First, I started with Ruger 10/22 Carbines.


Install sling swivels studs, detachable swivels and a USGI M1 Garand type sling.
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=366960 $2.49
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=270453 $6.79
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=777813 $10.29, black, also comes in green.

Do these swivel studs make use of the barrel band?  I see that the Uncle Mike's Swivel Stud 115 B Set includes a machine screw and a wood screw. 

It appears they are confident of the rear one holding fine when just the butt stock is drilled and the stud screwed into it.  On the front it looks like they expect you to drill through the forend and into the barrel channel (so take the rifle action/barrel out of the stock) and install the nut on the front stud.  My 10/22 carbine stock was pretty thick (form the bottom of the barrel channel to the bottom of the forend) so I countersunk the holes from the inside so the nut/screws would not stick up into the barrel channel.  I don't know if the Uncle Mike's stuff has a long enough stud to come all the way through into the barrel channel or not.  If not you'll need to countersink the hole with a drill bit large enough to allow the nut to pull down into the hole  without splitting the forend.

Looks like you got the right swivels and the right sling.  You get the sling and the tech sights on that thing and when you get down and serious it'll feel like an M1 or M1A (you'll know your mind has made that crossover when you start trying to push the safety forward in the trigger guard and can't find it.)  It makes an excellent training rifle.

I ordered the Tech Sights a few days ago so I should be good to go on that.
Uncle Mike makes some swivels that come with a 10/22 band adapter, but they only go up to 1".  Still, it might be worth ordering a set to cherry pick that one piece for use with the 1.25" swivels that Nickle is recommending.  Or I suppose I could make something.
It's just that I would hate to drill into the stock when there's already a more elegant solution  - I'm kinda obsessive about that kind of crap

If you want one of those adapters, PM your mailing address to me and I will send you one. I tried it and wasn't happy with it. When you tighten up the sling, the barrel band  puts pressure on the barrel and changes the point of impact. Some people remove the barrel band entirely for this reason. The best setup for a wood stock is here:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=190783

(or find a well-stocked Uncle Mike's dealer with this item)
For a synthetic stock:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=705310

I replace the knurled nut with a 5mm nut and washer from the hardware store. It makes it easier to tighten down with a socket instead of pliers.

I will take you up on that and thank you for it.
Disappointed that you think it won't work as well though.  (But I'm still gonna try it )

Your Mileage May Vary. Be aware you also have to file/grind the opening in the barrel band to allow for the thickness of the adapter.

Quote from: GMB74 on February 15, 2008, 06:03:35 PM
Your Mileage May Vary. Be aware you also have to file/grind the opening in the barrel band to allow for the thickness of the adapter.

Huh, that's about as bad as drilling holes in the wood.  I'm screwed no matter which way I go :p

I drilled two holes in the front and the butt stock.  I used an M14 front sling swivel and a M1917 US Enfield sling swivel in the back.  My sling attachment is rock solid.  And it looks good, too.

Quote from: Nishnabotna on February 15, 2008, 06:06:45 PM

Quote from: GMB74 on February 15, 2008, 06:03:35 PM
Your Mileage May Vary. Be aware you also have to file/grind the opening in the barrel band to allow for the thickness of the adapter.

Huh, that's about as bad as drilling holes in the wood.  I'm screwed no matter which way I go :p

Replacement barrel bands are about $5. You can also get them free for asking at Rimfirecentral.com, as many of them have simply been discarded in the building of "ultimates" (10/22 hot rods).

Brand-new factory stocks range in price from $20-$25 (gun shows) down to the cost of shipping (again, by asking at RFC, and for the same reason).

There's no need to treat either part as valuable, collectible, or sacred. (Older, walnut 10/22 stocks do have some value, though.)

Quote from: Snake45 on February 15, 2008, 11:33:57 PM
There's no need to treat either part as valuable, collectible, or sacred. (Older, walnut 10/22 stocks do have some value, though.)

It's a personal mania of mine.  Never mind, I'll suck it up and do one or the other.   Thanks to the kind offer from GMB74 I have the choice.
On another note, the Tech Sights I had ordered came in today - ordered on the 13th, arrived on the 15th.  That's service!  Now I need to get the weaver mount off... damn lock-tite...

Quote from: GMB74 on February 15, 2008, 05:44:11 PM
When you tighten up the sling, the barrel band  puts pressure on the barrel and changes the point of impact. Some people remove the barrel band entirely for this reason.

I try not to ever put anything on my rifle that touches the barrel, especially that has pressure on and off, like a barrel band that will pull the barrel off of poi when applying pressures with your sling. The same would go for any of the Bipods I see people putting on that clamp on your barrel. I have a hogue stock on a Tactical Solutions bull barrel, but I can pass a dollar between the barrel and stock even under sling pressure.

I picked up my 10/22 LTR today and I'm stuck in the same boat with the sling studs.  Mine doesn't have any and I didn't get the wood stock but the synthetic digicam (it looked cool) and I really don't want to mess it up.  Guess Ill need to either suck it up or get a smith to do it.

On the barrel band though, is that something I should be taking off?

Quote from: Gawl on February 16, 2008, 02:17:59 AM
On the barrel band though, is that something I should be taking off?

Only you can say that, after careful testing. Some 10/22s will shoot better with the band removed, some shoot better with it on there. I have one of each.

You'll probably need a scope and a benchrest to tell the difference. For Appleseed purposes, I don't think it's going to make much difference--probably not nearly as much difference as you'll find between the best and worst of ammo brands.

Keep in mind that a 10/22 has just the one action bedding screw.

I'd agree with Snake45 about trying your rifle out before you remove the barrel band.  Mine shoots great with it one.  I have the original stock (refinished though), the sling swivels mentioned above, a 1 & 1/2" butt extension (for my long arms) and the tech sights.  My best groups from a sling supported prone position are around 5/8" at 25 yds. 

That's why I keep telling people to go to an Appleseed, learn to use that sling and you won't need a bench rest to get nice groups.  I have sighted some rifles in (irons and scopes) sitting since I've learned the value of the sling and how to get a good sitting position.

You really need that sling to help you lock that rifle into your shoulder and steady it up.

Well I picked up the uncle mikes swivel set, its only the 1" ones but I can swap the swivels later.  Going to take a crack at drilling them in later on.  Thanks for the advice on the barrel band, I'll play with it and see.  I do like the way it looks with it off better so I may just leave it off if it won't adversly affect the rifle.

The Uncle Mike's studs that come with the one machine screw will fit the stock just fine; you drill a hole in the stock as far forward as you can and countersink a larger hole in the stock from under the barrel. The nut that comes with it gets drawn down into the hole when you tighten the screw. Works great.

Anyone who wants a barrel band that's already filed to accept the swivel, just PM me your address and I'll send you mine. I had mine done that way but I've decided to change it over to the countersunk version.

Well I drilled the sink hole and the other hole inside of it just fine and screwed the front post in, but the post doesn't seem to tighten...as in it doesn't reach a point where it stops turning.  I can't pull the stud out, but is it normal for it to still spin some?  Also the nut your referring to that it comes with, is that the white washer?  My kit did not have a nut to put on from the inside.

Quote from: Gawl on February 16, 2008, 05:18:14 PM
Well I drilled the sink hole and the other hole inside of it just fine and screwed the front post in, but the post doesn't seem to tighten...as in it doesn't reach a point where it stops turning.  I can't pull the stud out, but is it normal for it to still spin some?  Also the nut your referring to that it comes with, is that the white washer?  My kit did not have a nut to put on from the inside.

Wood screw type threads? Doesn't use the nut.




This kind below? Machine screw type, and that shows the nut.