Project Appleseed

I was shooting my Marlin 795 yesterday, and one of the rounds went off and I could tell something wasn't right. When it went off it sounded much louder than usual, and it sprayed some warm gas back in my face (Thankfully, I was wearing eyes and ears.) I waited about 30secs to make sure everything had settled, then cleared the rifle and took a look. What I found was a blown out Winchester Super X casing (the cheap 333 package stuff). Now before all this, the Marlin had been giving me ejection problems, anyone think that might have something to do with it? I fired off about 30 more rounds of the stuff (maybe not the greatest idea) and it all worked fine. Double charge? I will be cleaning the rifle either today or tomorrow, and will look for any problems/clean out the chamber and everything really well. The guys on rimfire central gave me a few ideas as to what to look for. Pics below

Thanks, Blake

I'm thinking that the bolt wasn't fully clossed and therefor the rim was unsupported.

Was this the first round in the Mag? If yes did you ease the bolt forward instead of letting it fly?

Everything Clean? Bolt face, recoil rod barrelface.

Extractor clean and moveing free?

Some places to start looking.

2cl

I agree with two clicks low. I've never seen a rimfire case separate like that before. Seems like it would be caused by a dirty rifle, that's pretty decent ammo.

Roland

It was the last round in the mag, actually. I have heard that Winchester .22lr has a thicker rim, and therefore can cause problems. Not sure how correct those statements are.

Blake

EDIT: Did some looking and a few other people have described things like this with .22lr ammo, and the majority of them resulted in saying something broke on the rifle, let's hope that is not the case.

Not sure about the Winchester having a thicker rim. However, if that is the case, then it would cause a headspace problem. (.22 rimfires headspace on the rim.) Having a dirty chamber could  cause the same problem if the build-up is not allowing the headspace to be correct. (Round not fully seated in the chamber)

Anyone miked these to see if there is a difference?  perhaps Nemohunter could weigh in...he's very knowledgeable on .22's.

How many rounds had you fired since last cleaning?  When you clean the rifle, do you give any special attention to the chamber?



Had the same thing happen on an Appleseed line not too long ago, using the same Winchester 333 ammo, and a Ruger 10/22.  During the middle of a COF, the rifle made an exaggerated "pop", immediately following which, the magazine fell out of the rifle.  Close examination found that the case had ruptured (very similar to the picture above) and once the magazine had been retrieved, discovered that it was covered in soot, and had suffered a large crack.  Immediately pulled the rifle, and upon inspection, found that 7/10 rounds would not fully chamber.   Cleaned the chamber with a .22 brush and patch, and no more problems.  Magazine was removed from service, though it appeared that it would still function.   

Shooter had not cleaned the rifle Saturday evening, and we were well beyond 550 rounds at the point that this incident occurred.  No other malfunctions were experienced prior to this, and none after cleaning. 

Final prognosis:
Out-of-Battery discharge caused by dirty chamber.  Advised shooter to thoroughly clean rifle (especially chamber area) every 300 rounds to avoid this problem in the future. 

I had cleaned it the day before, and was maybe 80 rounds in. I had the same thing, black soot on the mag, but these are metal so there wasn't any damage. Tonight I really wanna get a good cleaning on this thing.

Yep, saw that in Alamogordo a few months ago. It was a 795 but don't know what ammo. Definately an out of battery situation. A good cleaning should do the trick...O.L.

.

Had it happen on the line twice in approx the last year.. 1st time was an out of battery discharge in a Rem 597.. blew out the mag, and small parts in the action..not sure which ammo was used. 2nd time was Win ammo in a 795, almost identical to your situation.
Luckily, in both events, no injuries...  BeSwift

Happend to me last winter with a ruger MkII pistol.
Dirty chamber did not allow bolt to close completly, but close enough to allow hammer to strike the fireing pin.
I used a .243 brush to brush the chamber thoroughly.

HHad it happen in my Thompson center with federal brown box bulk from was mart.  Best I could figure was failure to go into battery.

Saw the exact same thing earlier this year at an AS. Shooter had a S&W M&P15/22 it was later in the day on Sunday and the rifle was dirty. He identified that the rifle had sounded different right away, and we removed a case just like that one from the chamber. I had him pull the rifle and go to run a snake or rod down it. When he ran the rod down the bore he found the bullet about 6" down from the chamber. 

It is a .22 all kinds of funny things hapen with .22s. 

DryFire

Yesterday I did a full take down complete overhaul cleaning.

Good news: Looks darn clean. 

Bad news: Bent the recoil spring, will have to wait a week to reassemble and try again. 

Quote from: AmericaStandsStrong on May 31, 2011, 05:47:48 PM
Bad news: Bent the recoil spring, will have to wait a week to reassemble and try again. 

I keep two of them in my box because they're so darned easy to kink during reassembly. 

Quote from: JustJeff on May 31, 2011, 06:32:09 PM

Quote from: AmericaStandsStrong on May 31, 2011, 05:47:48 PM
Bad news: Bent the recoil spring, will have to wait a week to reassemble and try again. 

I keep two of them in my box because they're so darned easy to kink during reassembly.

There has got to be an easier way to install this thing.

Interesting, never seen anything like this.  Has happened several times to me with a .308 or .223 at the range. 

Something to be on the look out for!

Out of Battery

Quote from: The Kid on June 07, 2011, 03:47:05 PM
Out of Battery

Yup, that's my thought too. Lucky it was a .22. I've had similar happen with an M14 clone, wasn't out of battery, but part of the case head isn't supported. Add weak/brittle brass and you've got a nasty situation. I can tell you the cast receiver (Fed Ord) was tougher than the forged USGI bolt. Replaced the bolt, stock, ejector and mag and still have the rifle.

Quote from: Thomas Sumter on May 30, 2011, 08:49:20 AM
HHad it happen in my Thompson center with federal brown box bulk from was mart.  Best I could figure was failure to go into battery.

Apparently I can't send PM's here - maybe too low of a post count.  If you still have a .22 from Thompson Center you can email me at maustypsu AT yahoo.  No, I'm not going to make you an offer.  I have some info on them you will want to be aware of if you aren't already.

Without seeing the gun it would be hard to diagnose the cause. However, I have seen this problem on the firing line. And at Gunsmithing School. (Just graduated!)

One possible cause of the problem is that the recess, cut out at the rear of the chamber which is cut out just to allow clearance for the extractor, will get notoriously dirty in a 22 rifle. You can clean the poop out of the bore and off of the bolt but if you leave this recess dirty you can have problems.

The problems can include a split case. This is because the bolt closes enough for the gun to fire, but does not close completely due to crud in the recess. Soooo, when the cartridge fires, it splits.

The key here is to clean out all the crud in the extractor recess. (And everywhere else too.) It should look like bare steel at the bottom of the recess when you are done. If the build up is too hard to come out using Q-tips and a dental pick, or the problem continues, take the gun to a gunsmith as there may be other problems going on as well.

Good Luck!

We had a shooter last weekend who had almost this exact same problem with his conversion kit. It was a CMMG, I believe. Needless to say, he immediately switched uppers. It was CCI ammo, which is odd, but he believed that the bolt may have not gone fully into battery.

Same thing last weekend at Quail Creek. Conversion kit in an AR. The ruptured shell looked just like the pics above.

Yeah, I have gotten it super clean. I never took it apart when I first got it to do a wicked good cleaning, so I see now that sand had been getting caught in the gunk in the chamber Marlin spread in there at the factory. Whoopsies  Recoil spring is back in, I got a Chrome silicon one from JnP springs. Will give an update next time I get to the range.

Classic OOB. seen a few. S&W out on loan from an instructor. Dirty. Ruger 10/22 late on Sunday. FILTHY.

both Remington GB bulk.

anytime you have a lack of maintenance you can run into issues. especially with a blow back design. ammo with a long or fat driving band just exaggerate the problem. 

Hartford Gun Club shoot, 4 June 2011. Shooter was using an AR-conversion, heard a pop and saw smoke coming from the receiver area. I found the upper half of a casing still in the chamber and later found the lower half as shrapnel on the mat. Took the rifle off the line. Federal bulk ammo, I think. Obvious out of battery - note the two little "wings" at the lower edge of the upper case fragment where the brass was blown out into the extractor slots.

Pretty impressive failure. Good thing the shooter wasn't a lefty!!

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Hmmm. I just had a case split on me last weekend at Davilla, TX. Since we didn't have too many students I decided to shoot AQTs. The Ruger 10/22 rifle was clean. I was using Aguila ammo. Blew powder back into my face. First time I'd seen that before.

Ran a bore snake down the barrel to clean it up a bit and continued shooting. Had quite a number of misfires that afternoon. Maybe the ammo? Not sure though.

Gave it a good cleaning, was used at an AS last weekend and worked flawlessly!