Project Appleseed

I'll be going to an instructers KD clinic here next week and among the rifles I'll be bringing is an AK variety.

I wanted to see who has done full, 500 yard, KD shoots with one and if so, which variety and what ammo were you using and most importantly, how well did it go?

I'm pretty sure someone did so at the Rolla, ND   RBC  last July 4-11. The IIT named three comes to mind. The instructors were Dond, Wisker, Greybeard, and Aftermath.


Hope that helps.

Yeah, I've heard of a few people doing it.  Very few, but a few none the less.

I guess well find out next weekend if I shall join their ranks or not... 

I shot KD with an AK out to 400 yards.  It kept the groups under man-sized out to that distance.  My rifle has Tech Sights, and a railed forarm so I can attach a push-button QD sling swivel and mount a GI web sling.  I used Golden Tiger ammo, which shoots the best of any 7.62x39 I've had experience with.  I have heard from several others that this is good stuff. 

Now I won't guarantee how hard it hits at that distance, but you can definitely put holes in things out to 500 yards with an AK if you know what you're doing.  However, if you go much farther out than that, the bullets start to keyhole, and the groups open up.

Have fun, and let us know how it goes.

Quote from: henschman on March 07, 2011, 02:55:33 AM
I shot KD with an AK out to 400 yards.  It kept the groups under man-sized out to that distance.  My rifle has Tech Sights, and a railed forarm so I can attach a push-button QD sling swivel and mount a GI web sling.  I used Golden Tiger ammo, which shoots the best of any 7.62x39 I've had experience with.  I have heard from several others that this is good stuff. 

Now I won't guarantee how hard it hits at that distance, but you can definitely put holes in things out to 500 yards with an AK if you know what you're doing.  However, if you go much farther out than that, the bullets start to keyhole, and the groups open up.

Have fun, and let us know how it goes.

TY for the info.  I was a bit worried about the tumbling.  I'll be using the yugoslavian surp stuff, which is pretty good.  Ive used it with good effect in sub 300 yard shoots (sub 250 really) so well see how it goes. 

I cant believe I didnt even thing about the rail mounted sling swivel.  This whole time Im thinkign in my head the best way to attach a GI sling to my rifle, even though I can sling up in a modified hasty sling with the standard leather AK sling.  I'd prefer to be locked in with the GI sling though in a loop sling.

Tech sights are something I've been debating. I've put it off because of their cost. I'll see how things go with this shoot on whether I'll get some.  I know they do wonders for every other rifle, especialy the SKS, so well see.

It wasn't three who shot it.  But he was there, as was I.
It was a young man, I can't recall how old, but 9-12 or there abouts.
Scored Rifleman on the KD range, with a scoped but stock AK(w/gi sling) and the ugliest/nastiest ammo you've ever seen.
Some sorta corroded and corrosive combloc surplus....

12 inch gongs at 300 are as far as I've taken the Ak out to. At that range I actually preferred the stock SKS.


Mike

Contact Toshbar, I believe he shot a rifleman score on a KD-AQT. He did it with an AK-74 so not your standard 7.62x39 gun but still an AK.  The rifle printed sub 2.5 MOA groups at 500 consistently.
-TK

Contact Sir Not Appearing In This Film - IIRC he shot KD in Davilla, TX with an AK - up to 700 yards.

From what I remember Steve saying, his 700 yarders were all key-holded.

Another peep sight option, as well as a picatiny rail. http://texasweaponsystems.com/id1.html Initial reviews have been pretty good.

My AK (WASR-10 Hi-Cap) was used for KD at an AS last September, I loaned it out to a shooter. Worked OK, hard to make a KD Rifleman score with it, but, all the key things can be done. He was consistently on paper, all the way out to 600 yards. IIRC, he was using recently made non-corrosive ammo through it, and that didn't help.

If you're trying to shoot a Rifleman score with an AK, my suggestion is to use a WASR, or other AK with a scope rail, and put on a PSO clone for your optic. That will get you past the short sight radius, which impedes good marksmanship.

While instructing at Davilla RBC in 11/08 I had a chance to use a Romanian G AKM build at 700 yards. It was only 5 shots at dusk, but what did I have to lose?

The things that made it happen for me that day are the things we teach at every Appleseed - 6 steps (especially 4A  ), NPOA, rifleman's bubble, etc.

Things in my favor that day:

Wind - it was near dead calm, which is rare for Davilla.
Target - A shooter had left the right side of the line, so I took the furthermost right "D" target. It made target ID a bit easier.
Ammo - Monarch 7.62x39 FMJ, which is produced for Academy by Barnaul.
Rear sight leaf was set to 600 meters. Rounds impacted a bit low.

The original post was here, but doesn't function any longer for some reason.
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=4450.0

The AAR from that RBC:
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=4411.0


I reposted the info on theakforum.net. On that forum my handle is MPiKM-72. Someone reposted that info in the first post here:
http://www.firearmstrainingandtactics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=254&page=1

If there was one thing I could change that day, it would be for me to have my camera on the firing line.

As for ammo, in addition to the Monarch I find Golden Tiger seems to be just a bit more consistent. Golden Tiger projectiles I've measured are a slightly larger size than Monarch - that may help. Yugoslavian ammo is quite accurate (for this round) as well.

Here's a pic of the rifle in the exact configuration it was in that day. I have since dismantled it to make a Soviet Clone since I found a Russian proof mark on the barrel.


Perhaps it was a fluke. Some have called my experience bull because each of the projectles went through the backer with the tips consistently pointing at 8 o'clock - that could never happen according to them. POP, Sim and Gooch saw the same results I did. I (and others on the internet -  ) often wonder if I could do it again. Give me a dead calm day at Davilla again and I'm willing to try.  

I have often heard the AK74 in 5.45x39 is more accurate. I have several AK74 kits but only have one built AK74 rifle - an AUSA ban era AK74 I got in a trade. That AUSA rifle of mine only seems capable of 4 MOA with Bulgarian surplus ammo. I hope my AK74 kits, when built, will perform better than that.

Thanks for the tips and ideas, gents.

I really like the idea of that Texas Weapons System rail.  Thats pretty neat the way it attaches to the leaf spring on the rear sight block.  That may be the way to go as Im sure you can get a red dot to co-witness with the peeps pretty well if need be.


I probably dont have enough time to order and have shipped any new optics or rails with peeps, since the shoot is this weekend, but as many of you have brought up, my cocern is the short sight radius as well.

Im most definintley going to get as many pics and as much video as I can, because if I accomplish this feat, I want proof!!  I may try to get ahold of a more suitable rifle just in case though

Thought I'd come in and do a bit of a re-cap:


My KD clinic did not go so well, personaly, this past weekend.

I did fine at the 1-300 yard positions, but when we moved back to our 400 yard the troubles began.  Im sure it was more me than the rifle, but our process was to fire two sighter groups of 5 shots, then the AQT timed 10 shots once we gleaned all our information on our KD zero based on the sighters.

Well, we wound up doing 3-4 sighters on the 400.  My first three I only got 1 round on paper for each sighter and at that point I said it wasnt worth goign through anymore ammo when 1 random shot on paper wont tell me much.  There was no consistency in it and thus it was hard to tell exactly what was happening, whether I was too high, too low, or too far to one side, I had no idea.

I called it quits at that point.


Perhaps with another rifle and/or better sights or more practice I could have done it, but with my current set-up I could not.

What size groups were you getting at 300?...O.L.

Oh, I dont remember exactly off the top of my head.  I'll have to dig up my dope book ( i still havent unpacked entirley) to be 100%, I'd say at least 5 to 6 moa at best.  The groups definintley opened up at 300, but still I had at least 8 or 9 hits within the black on the standard 20 inch D target.

Not the greatest, but well within minute of deer