Project Appleseed

Below is a copy of a letter I sent to Marlin in yesterday's mail.  I originally posted this on another "795" thread.  I decided to post here in order to get more response/involvement from other Appleseeders.  I am obviously partial to the Marlin but there are Ruger, Remington, etc. fans here also.  I suggest others contact their favorite manfacturer in a similar manner. Who knows, if Ruger thinks Marlin is onto something or vice versa someone may actually get interested in producing a factory LTR.  It does not have to be a big change from what they already offer as many other posts on various threads already have noted. What better advertisement for Appleseed than to have a major manufacturer producing an Appleseed Liberty Training Rifle?  What better way for a new shooter to get involved than to be able to purchase a LTR ready to go straight out of the box?  How about the new shooter that was loaned a factory LTR at his first shoot and learns he can buy one just like it straight off the shelf at a reasonable cost.  Based on current costs I don't see why Marlin couldn't offer a LTR for +/- $200.00 maybe less, Ruger for +/- $250.00 maybe less.  I will post any response I receive from Marlin.

Craig

October 26, 2010

Marlin Firearms
Customer Service / Research & Development
P.O. Box 1871
Madison, NC 27025

Re: Marlin 795 LTR for Appleseed

Sir or Madam:

The Appleseed Project (appleseedinfo.org) is a non-profit organization dedicated to teaching traditional marksmanship skills along with the heritage and history of our Nation. The marksmanship skills and techniques we teach are the same as taught by the Marine Corps when I went through boot camp in 1970.  Most of our instruction is done at 25 meters on "D" silhouettes from the Army Qualification Test reduced in size and contrast to simulate ranges of 100, 200, 300 and 400 yards.  Although center fire rifles are welcome and used the most popular firearms are semiautomatic .22s.  Most popular among the .22s are the Ruger 10-22 and the Marlin 795.  I own both and neither comes out of the box ideal for an Appleseed.  I prefer the Marlin for several reasons, primarily it takes and costs less to make it adequate for an Appleseed LTR (Liberty Training Rifle).  Out of the box it is hands down more accurate than the 10-22.  The draw backs are it is too light, the sights are woefully inadequate, the stock is rather puny and the trigger pull is long and creepy.  The modifications I have made to both mine and my grandson's 795s are: I stiffened the fore stock by epoxying a steel rod in the channel under the barrel, this also adds some needed weight; I replaced the plastic trigger guard with a machined al. trigger guard and trigger from Diversified Innovative Products (diproductsinc.com).  I also added a scope due to my eyesight.  While not the "perfect" LTR I am able to consistently score above expert on our AQT course of fire with it.

  I am sure you receive an endless supply of suggestions and requests for various firearm designs.  However if you will consider a few modifications/upgrades to your basic 795 there is a waiting market for it.  I personally have already been responsible for at least five (5) 795s leaving store shelves headed to an Appleseed.  For my preference just make it look and feel like a 85% scale version of the M14 and you are there.  That would also appeal to a substantial market outside of Appleseed I am sure.

For a more precise list of  modifications/upgrades:
•   20 - 22 inch barrel (my 1970s vintage Mdl. 60 has a 22" barrel that appears would be an easy replacement on my Mdl. 795.  Something I am considering.
•   Full size, beefier stock with a higher comb (or adjustable cheek piece)
•   Aluminum trigger guard and trigger similar to the D.I.P.
•   Longer more substantial magazine release (we perform mag changes during the course of fire)
•   Drill and tap receiver for scope/sight mounting
•   M1/M14 style sights.  Tech-Sights (tech-sights.com) makes M16 style sights for a number of rifles including the 795.  These would be ok but the M14 style sights preferred.  We sometimes fire .22s out to 100 yds.  Ease of sight adjustment is a big plus
•   Better trigger with less slack, creep and over travel.  The D.I.P. trigger actually has two set screws to eliminate a lot of the slack and over travel.
•   Accessories could/should include four (4) magazines and military style loop sling (M1/M14 sling).
With the above you would have an "out of the box" LTR seemingly at a lower cost than the bottom of the line current "WalMart" Ruger 10-22.  Please visit the Appleseed Project website.  While there click on the RWVA Links and check out the forum.  You will find that there is substantial interest in a factory LTR.  I hope you will decide to make it a Marlin.

Thank you for your consideration.


Craig S. Whitfield
1446 Conley Road
Conley, GA 30288
cswhitfield@yahoo.com
PS: By the way there are Appleseed shoots scheduled for November 13&14 in both Waco and Toccoa Georgia.  Come join us and see for yourself.

Great letter Craig, who knows, maybe they will take your suggestions in part or all and produce a LTR.  Hopefully out of he box accuracy doesn't take a hit.

Tom

Someone is making ready to go, right out of the box Ruger 10-22 LTRs; Me.

Here is what I provide,

Rifle: standard hardwood stocked Ruger 10-22 Carbine,
Sights: Tech-Sights TSR-100,
Sling swivels: Uncle Mike's 1-1/4" Super Swivels,
Sling: USGI style web sling,
Automatic release bolt hold open,
Fit extractor and firing pin to bolt,
Trigger job at 2.5# to 3# pull weight.

Let me know and I can build you one also.

Douglas

Thanks Douglas,

I already own three 10-22s.  One of them specifically set up as a LTR.  Walnut stocked, 22" barrel "sporter".  Tech-Sights (TSR 200), 1.25" sling swivels, GI Loop Sling,  Automatic Bolt Release, trigger smoothed up (not as good as yours but much better than factory).  The point of my letter to Marlin is two fold.  First that a person can walk into a "gun store" and purchase a ready to go LTR at prices similar to rifles already on the market.  Second and to me more important is the benefit to our mission if  a factory is promoting Appleseed with their product.  Pus the added benefit of someone walking into a gun store and seeing a rifle that mimics a M1 or M14 or M1 Carbine.  They ask to take a closer look and want to know what the LTR means.  The guy behind the counter explains it (even if he has to look it up) or better yet it is on the tag on the rifle.  Just maybe we have another shooter (potential Orange hat) on the hook even if he does not buy the rifle on the spot.  Since the rifle I envision is "entry level" I don't see it having a negative impact on the after market industry.  To the contrary it probably will open it up even more.  You know how us gun nuts are.

Thanks again,

Craig
PS:  even though I bought and set up the 10-22 specifically to go to my first Appleseed I have never shot it at one.  Just like the Marlin better. I did loan it out at a shoot and that shooter scored 225 with it.  Not too shabby!

Lets see what Marlin has to say. Please post their response.

Doug

OK three and a half months is long enough to wait.  Besides I finally got a response of sorts, I think, kinda, sorta.  I have not received a direct response from Marlin.  I did however receive a nice form letter from Remington about a week ago.  The letter was addressed "Dear Remington Supporter".  The first sentence is "Thank you for providing Remington Arms Company the opportunity to assist with your event."  This puzzled me because I had not contacted Remington nor have I purchased anything from them in over two (2) years.  Then it dawned on me that the same parent company that owns Remington also owns Marlin.  The letter offered me a 25% discount on anything from the Remington Country Store (nothing there to use for Appleseed).  Since my curiosity was up I called the customer service number listed in the letter.  I spoke to a very nice lady.  Told her about the letter I had received and the letter I had written to Marlin.  She did not have a clue either so she connected me with the Remington Corporate office.  I spoke to another lady (also very nice) who wasn't sure but said my letter to Marlin was probably what generated Remington's offer.  She offer to put me in touch with someone at Marlin who might be able to help.  She transferred me to Marlin corporate.  This time I spoke with a gentleman in Marlin's customer service.  He not only was very nice he is aware of Appleseed and supports the mission.  He also said it was likely that my letter had prompted the offer from Remington.  After talking with him for about 20 minutes it was apparent that a couple of letters from a few individuals was not going to generate much in the way of a factory LTR from any manufacturer.  Between lawyers, bean counters, engineers (we didn't think of it types) etc.  it just wasn't going to happen.  He did seem at least somewhat interested and suggested the best way to go about getting something done was to contact the  National Shooting Sports Association.

There you have it.  I tried.  Now back to studying the History and learning to tell the Story.

Craig