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Shot Group Analysis #3

Started by Old Dog, November 29, 2007, 09:28:48 PM

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Old Dog

November 29, 2007, 09:28:48 PM
I see lots of folks look at these but only a few answer them.  If you know the answer jump in.  If you're not sure think about your own experience (either shooting or coaching someone else) and work out the most likely answer.  Seems with many of these there is more than one possible cause so don't get the idea there is only one answer.  No one here is gonna laugh at you if you're wrong.

Remember.  The only people who don't make mistake are those who don't do anything and liars.  The important thing is to learn from your mistakes so you don't make the same ones over and over.

Have a good one and here's #3.

"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

—Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

voortrekker

#1
November 29, 2007, 09:43:55 PM
The cook shooting the rifle is not following the six steps(should be "rules" IMHO).

Specifically, this person doesnt' understand NPOA.

OR

He/she may be shooting a shotgun.

If they're shooting a shotgun, not bad. ;D
If YOU are thinking, WE are winning.

ken grant

#2
November 29, 2007, 10:27:26 PM
 Failure to follow steps 5 or 6 in firing the shot.
Most likely #5

hawkhavn

#3
November 29, 2007, 11:00:33 PM
If the shooter is using a scope make sure the mount is tight.

Don't ask how I know this.   ;D

Ed
Criticism is the only known antidote to error.  David Brin

What a nation has done, a nation can aspire to.
Dr. Jerry Pournelle

Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.

This is known as "bad luck."
---Robert Anson Heinlein

"Great things have been effected by a few men well conducted." - George Rogers Clark

"Appleseed is a safe place to learn because they care. They have the confidence and serenity of spring gardeners." 1IV on AR15.com

ax238

#4
November 29, 2007, 11:38:09 PM
Since you can't tell when/if the shooter hit the target at center at the start/middle/end of this group you can't really tell if he had actually taken up a position and settled for NPOA.  IF the shooter had NPOA, he lost it after the first shot.  I have battled with this with my LTR, since I still haven't got the Tech sights in the mail, my sight picture ...well, I just have groups like that but they are fall within about a 2" pattern.  I have to say with the group pictured that the individual never, if he had it, retained NPOA.

Ax
Tyrants prefer disarmed victims. Those who want freedom must be willing to fight for it.

wcmartin1

#5
November 30, 2007, 12:52:23 AM Last Edit: November 30, 2007, 12:55:15 AM by wcmartin1
Sling not tight enough or no sling used?

Flinching?

Failure to keep eyes open on the front sight when pulling the trigger (failure to call the shot)?

Jerking the trigger?

Not following through?

Failure to acquire NPOA and muscling the shot?


"Unhappy it is, though, to reflect that a brother's sword has been sheathed in a brother's breast and that the once-happy and peaceful plains of America are either to be drenched with blood or inhabited by a race of slaves.  Sad alternative!  But can a virtuous man hesitate in his choice?" - George Washington - from a letter to a close friend after the events of April 19, 1775

"There is no nation on earth powerful enough to accomplish our (the United States) overthrow.  Our destruction, should it come at all, will be from another quarter.  From the inattention of the people to the concerns of their government, from their carelessness and negligence, I must confess that I do apprehend some danger.  I fear that they may place too implicit a confidence in their public servants, and fail properly to scrutinize their conduct; that in this way they may be made the dupes of designing men, and become the instruments of their own undoing." - Daniel Webster, June 1, 1837

VAshooter

#6
November 30, 2007, 09:58:16 AM
A large dispursed shot group indicates nothing about NPOA. It indicates that the shooter is not focused on the front sight or he does not have a cheek weld or he does not understand sight alignment. Sometimes a combination of all three.

VAshooter

Snake45

#7
November 30, 2007, 10:30:22 AM Last Edit: November 30, 2007, 10:33:49 AM by Snake45
Quote from: VAshooter on November 30, 2007, 09:58:16 AM
the shooter is not focused on the front sight or he does not have a cheek weld or he does not understand sight alignment. Sometimes a combination of all three.

VAshooter


That would be my diagnosis as well.

Or he's shooting my Polytech, in its original balsawood stock, with South African ammo.... ;D
Buddy said "Coach, I wanna score goals"
Coach said "Buddy, remember your role:
The fast guys get paid to shoot and to score
Protect them, Buddy, that's what you're here for
Protection, that's what you're here for."

--Warren Zevon, "Hit Somebody," My Ride's Here, 2002 Artemis Records

ax238

#8
November 30, 2007, 11:11:50 AM

So my thought about my stock sights LTR was correct then?  I have the hardest time focusing on that front buckhorn sight!! 
So, can't focus on the front sight, can't keep sight alignment either right?
Tyrants prefer disarmed victims. Those who want freedom must be willing to fight for it.

VAshooter

#9
November 30, 2007, 11:30:22 AM
Right.

VAshooter

Nickle

#10
November 30, 2007, 01:31:23 PM
Fred taught me the answer to this one, and was quite clear about it.

BASICS.

6 STEPS, NPOA.
They have men amongst them who know very well what they are about, having been employed as Rangers against the Indians and Canadians and this country being much covered with wood, and hilly, is very advantageous for their method of fighting. . . . ".  Lord Percy

Sounds like New Englanders to me.

Simballo

#11
November 30, 2007, 03:28:19 PM
1. focus on target not front sight

2. loose position

3. Flinching, bucking, and/or jerking

4. Closing eyes

5. Sight alignment, cheek weld not constant.

Snake45

#12
November 30, 2007, 03:55:50 PM
Quote from: Simballo on November 30, 2007, 03:28:19 PM
1. focus on target not front sight

2. loose position

3. Flinching, bucking, and/or jerking

4. Closing eyes

5. Sight alignment, cheek weld not constant.

6. Any or all of the above, in any combination(s)
Buddy said "Coach, I wanna score goals"
Coach said "Buddy, remember your role:
The fast guys get paid to shoot and to score
Protect them, Buddy, that's what you're here for
Protection, that's what you're here for."

--Warren Zevon, "Hit Somebody," My Ride's Here, 2002 Artemis Records

SGTCap

#13
November 30, 2007, 07:44:38 PM
A LITTLE OF EVERYTHING

Old Dog

#14
December 01, 2007, 01:25:48 PM
And the guide says:

"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

—Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

Snake45

#15
December 01, 2007, 02:20:49 PM
I didn't think this looked like something that could be traced to failure of NPOA.  ;)
Buddy said "Coach, I wanna score goals"
Coach said "Buddy, remember your role:
The fast guys get paid to shoot and to score
Protect them, Buddy, that's what you're here for
Protection, that's what you're here for."

--Warren Zevon, "Hit Somebody," My Ride's Here, 2002 Artemis Records
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