Project Appleseed

I added my comments as Appleseed Mom.

Hope I took the proper take on things there. I was trying to be positive.

comments edited due to degrading tone towards northeast liberal media

Quote from: SamD on July 30, 2010, 01:21:02 PM
We survuived the Southern "Poverty" Law Center, the ADL and the Washington Post.
Relax all. No bad stuff there.

We will get another 170-180 shooters in each of PA/NY/NJ over then next 4-5 months from it and that will be the total effect so long as folks HERE don't over react.

Pay no attention to the nay sayers, just keep plugging along. Matter of fact if you feel the need to find fault lets check our mirrors and our internal processes before we worry too much about the press.  5 years ago they had half again as much circulation as they do now, wonder why?  They have enemies all around them, our only enemy is right here when we self doubt

Sam,

You are right on about the effect this will have.  It is awesome news for us and I do not see any gloom out of this situation.  I only see good results coming from it so long as we do not say anything stupid to the press.

Heck, even my wife - whose family reads the NYT like some read scripture - was amazed at the article and saw right through it.  I know others will too.

BTW, the way I read it, that is the second time the SPLC crew has called us mainstream.  Heck, they were more positive than the NRA who were very hesitant.

In any case, my excitement on this is all positive and not at all negative.  This is a big step up for us, and a good teething for our promotions crews to learn from.  I know others are really upset at this, and I hope they resist all temptations to cut loose.  But, Sam, I am with you - this has me smirking and smiling.  It is gonna simply help us reach more people.

All that there is now is to ride the wave, make good use of it and keep anyone from stumbling on all of our behalfs.

Thanks again everyone, and some day Sam - you and I need to find ourselves time around an Appleseed Campfire!

Techres

Somehow, the naysayer commenters after reading 6 pages, neglected Fred's statement that "If we have to fire one shot, we've lost"... To me that is the crux of Appleseed, and the reason I am involved....

Mac

The article is publicity.  Publicity will bring people to Appleseeds.  It is also likely to bring more publicity, which will bring people to Appleseeds.

This is a great opportunity.  Let's set up more shoots for the flood that will be coming!!!

22nd most emailed article in the past 24 hrs! 

If the goal is to get more people on the firing line so they can hear the truth, then this article should be considered a success. Even with the somewhat right wing extremist spin it puts on appleseed, it has gotten the word out to a huge number of people that might not have heard about the program otherwise. In the end history will show that this article has put more people on the firing lines than it has taken off.

I read the article immediately when it went online, and hesitated, then read it again. It's a plus for us, the slideshow is a plus (even if my truck got in the photo and I didn't!), finally the video was a big plus as well. Whether we like the other opinions that are out there or not, they are there, and we must deal with them. I thought the article covered our side of the story very well. I especially liked how Fred handled the question of screening attendees. It would have been very easy to take the bait and go on the defensive, instead Fred gave them something to think about.

"What if the inmates in the asylum were stabbing each other with knives? Do you give them plastic spoons? Or do you cure the insanity?"

You cure the insanity. That is the forward thinking we talk about in our founding fathers, not being reactionary, not living in the moment.

Let's keep a positive message moving forward from here and not allow ourselves to get caught in the back and forth defensive mode. We got three runners on base and it's up to us who are next at bat to drive one for the fence and bring them home.

Yellowhousejake

As fine and unbiased job done by NYT on project  AS 
One has to be wondering why a singe issue costs more than a share of stock
It was my understanding they were going into chapter 11 . Please someone notify me when the inventory is up for public auction .I would like to buy a table (cheap) to keep outdoors .
JA

Folks, the NYT is a non-entity. The NYT has zero credibility. People who purchase and read that publication are already lost as humans. Gone, dead. Totally indoctrinated "useful idiots".

RWVA and the APPLESEED program will be around decades past the closing of the doors of the NYT. The American MSM is rapidly digging its own grave.

Just keep on doing what we do . . . educate and inform Americans of our heritage. Let the naysayers drink their koolaide. They'll be gone too.

-fb

Well, that's the NY Times being the NY Times.

As for the tone of the article, remember:

"You know you're over the target when you start to get flack"

Stay on target!

Great Article!!  I bet it gets us a few more appleseeders!   

Seriously,  we just got free national advertising.  What's better, they took a few cheap shots at us, but none of our crew really gave them anything to hang us by.  The NYT just provided us with a straw man and a national stage on which to dismantle him.   

What's more, we might be able to parlay this "cheap attack by the liberal media" into getting a media outlet with a more friendly lens to do a counter article.   

Can anybody think of media outlets that love fighting back and forth with the NYT?  I bet our media staff can find several national platforms that would love to expose the bias in this piece and show the country what we really are, just to spite the NYT.       

Of course the NYT did not give us a fair review.  It was not in their best interests to tell the truth about us.  Their best interests are served by keeping Americans asleep.  Their primary advertisers are likely couch and television retailers and I have reason to believe that the time monkey is a major shareholder.  So much of the media is devoted to inspiring immobilizing fear and encouraging inaction.  We are the natural enemies of fear and inaction.  We are the masters of these enemies and they know it.       

It is my sincere hope that this article will inspire greater public scrutiny of our program.  Since I believe our cause to be just, we will exalt in the attention and use every stone thrown at us to build our speaking platform that much higher.   


EVERYTHING IS TO OUR ADVANTAGE
IT NEVER RAIN ON US, IT RAINS FOR US


Sincerely,
TBE

 



 

If I had read this article as the average unfamiliar person;  assuming I wasn't already ignorantly biased, this would leave me with enough questions to look into it further.  If anything; it does prove we exist.
Further more, the comments of those who are do not support us actually serve to support us.
By them comments alone; I would be would not turn away without finding out for myself....

Quote from: Fred on July 30, 2010, 03:07:18 PM

Quote from: jacques on July 30, 2010, 12:20:54 PM
He described Fred as a "Tall Man" 

   How tall I am all depends on how tall YOU are...

When I first met you Fred you were pretty tall, But as we talked and I got to know you, I think we pretty much stand (see) eye to eye. Good job 

dragonfly     Keeping the Faith

Anybody see the print article?

There was some truly epic nonsense:


smack dab in the middle of one of the pages.

Quote from: crak on August 02, 2010, 06:49:42 AM
Anybody see the print article?

There was some truly epic nonsense:

Appleseed blah
blah blah blah
blah attracts
RADICAL
ANGER
and moderates it

smack dab in the middle of one of the pages.

Huh?  I just checked, and didn't find anything like that.  Looks like the website was hacked for a bit.  BTW, last week I found a bunch of spam (ads for viagra, etc.), within the unread posts menu of THIS forum  when I opened it.  That stuff has not since reappeared, knock on wood.

Glad to see we're all keeping cool heads about this.  Once again my faith in our Instructor corps is re-enforced.  We are not a bunch of nut jobs.  Well, not all of us are.    

From a news-stand I'll pick up and read the NY times at least once a week.  Good way to enjoy a $12 cheese-burger and a glass of wine at a side-walk cafe (in the french style), and the Sunday times book review is a staple in my tiny apartment.  Sure beats the other papers around here and it's a good place to get international news.  The editorial page usually has something worth reading, and I couldn't care less about the sport scores (even though they're covered too).  The Times will put up with both sides up on the economic issues of our time and really does explore many more stories than the tabloids or any television media outlet.  You'll see Paul Krugman and George Will in the same issue on the same page, and not only are they not yelling at each other, but they're probably talking about completely different things.  First place I ever heard of Ruby Ridge was in the NY Times and they were not "happy" about it.  A week after it happened and I hadn't seen it anywhere else.

If one can't handle listening to the other side, then perhaps one should sit down and be quiet themselves.  Personally I'd rather listen to NPR than Rush Limbaugh, and I am a committed Rifleman and three year Appleseed Instructor.  Anybody wanna debate me on any topic, let's go.  Thoughtful discourse is something else we used to have in this country, something we used to respect.  Anti-intellectualism is a major selling point of television, newspaper and knee-jerk pundit agit-prop.  I'm glad to know that Appleseeders are still thinking people.

Anybody read the article on concealed carry in Harper's?  While talking about how much he likes to have a pistol on his hip, he's still able to make fun of himself and others for certain "cowboy" aspects of American masculinity.  

If you are absolutely sure of yourself, I can almost guarantee you're over-looking something.

Bottom line, while this article may bring us more shooters, it remains irrelevant.  We are not in this to make ourselves famous.  The first shooter who tells me he/she came out to AS because of this article gets a free bumper sticker.  

Staplegund,

It's in the printed magazine on the newsstand.  Picture of Fred on one page, that nonsense on the next.  "Radical anger" is the biggest thing on the page even though the quote is talking about moderating it.

Amazing they have the nerve to make people take something so out of context while it's right there in the middle of its context!

Quote from: kDan on August 02, 2010, 11:31:08 AM

If one can't handle listening to the other side, then perhaps one should sit down and be quiet themselves.  Personally I'd rather listen to NPR than Rush Limbaugh, and I am a committed Rifleman and three year Appleseed Instructor.  Anybody wanna debate me on any topic, let's go.  Thoughtful discourse is something else we used to have in this country, something we used to respect.  Anti-intellectualism is a major selling point of television, newspaper and knee-jerk pundit agit-prop.  I'm glad to know that Appleseeders are still thinking people.

I was not going to comment on this issues on the Forum, but KDan's comment was too good to go without a big thumbs up  . Television, commercial talk radio, and various media have all but destroyed civil and in-depth public discourse. Sometimes NYT is part of the problem, but so is Rush Limbaugh.

I won't be spending $6 (and 56 cents to the King) for the issue.  
It has reached many of the internet gun forums and the day is not over. Most liberty loving gun owners see right thru the phony bias of the press.
I sent it to everyone I know (with the rebuttal) even past AS shooters, those which I had e-mails. The ones who have replied so far say it only strengthens their love of liberty and Appleseed.

I was thinking this past weekend, as I stood on the firing line, about the 'middle-aged white men" remark made in the article. I looked down the line at people of different race, creed, color, religion, and sex -all embracing the traditions of the Founders. Then I thought a bit about past events and the sheer volume of pictures I have on file.

I can likely produce a picture of near every type of person imaginable (with a little digging - lots of pics). The lust for Liberty knows no color - no specific creed - it is universal among mammals and is surely embedded in our very DNA.

I have no darkness in my heart for the author or the publisher - I know well what we are about.

I first saw mention of the article over on the firingline forum this morning  and so linked to it and read the thing...

I found it a pretty fair accounting and not what I expected at all.  Yes, the writer did branch off into some folks who are on the 'dark side'  but if you stay focused while reading it... you or at least I did not get a negative feel for Appleseed from what was written.

but then I'm one of those few wild eyed liberals who firmly believes in the RTKABA...  as well as understanding where we came from and enjoying honing my rifleman skills.

Liberty Minded E-mailed me this rebuttal article here

http://bigjournalism.com/wthuston/2010/08/02/fears-worries-yada-yada-yada-the-new-york-times-is-afraid-of-gun-crazed-motley-carnivals-of-the-tea-party-movement/#idc-cover

Quote from: Fred on July 30, 2010, 03:07:18 PM

Quote from: jacques on July 30, 2010, 12:20:54 PM
He described Fred as a "Tall Man"  

  How tall I am all depends on how tall YOU are...

Compared to Jacques then, not tall    

Fred, I was at the Ramseur shoot this past weekend, and it was a pleasure to meet you and get to know more about the Appleseed program and how it operates. As a first time Appleseeder, I would like to state that I was impressed by how you, and all of the instructors presented themselves. Also, I had no difficulty whatsoever deriving the intended mission of the RWVA. Politically, I am a registered independent because I would like to think that I can make up my own mind on how I feel on certain issues, and I believe that the message at the Appleseed shoot was just that.

Additionally, for those who were not in Ramseur this past weekend, we had a Boy Scout troop of 12-14 boys as well as a mix of men/women of all ages (and not everybody was white!).

Down-Range TV's Michael Bane had some good comments on the article in their weekly video podcast. 
http://www.downrange.tv/blog/drtv%E2%80%99s-weekly-video-podcast-32/5265/

Yeah, DownRange Radio's feature really impressed me.

I was very interested in how he relied on his background in investigative journalism to look at why the NYT and other mainstream media outlets create articles like they do.

This should be required listening for every journalist and journalism major.

It looks like a lot of people took the time to comment about the N.Y. Times article.

That's a good thing, but I noticed one very important instance in the slides portion of the piece.
Did any one see Slide #12,the same one as on the front page? It shows the Flag of the United States of America Lying on the GROUND. That is a horrible way to display "OLD GLORY".
This behavior shows gross disrespect for the Flag and the U.S.A.
The correct way to display and handle "OLD GLORY" can be found at

                 http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html#176
                Scroll to #176 Respect for the Flag Sec.b


I think it is great that we teach about The Founders and our Heritage, but maybe we should start teaching about respect for the Flag and our Country in the present also.
I find it very disturbing that not too many folks know about U.S. Flag etiquette.

                                                                              Thanks, Richie Taylor
                                                           IIT Virginia

Just FYI, I remember the Shoot Boss for this event saying that is a beach towel with an American Flag design on it.

Still disrespectful in my book, but it is not as bad as that picture looks (and every NYT reader probably thinks).

    Let's see - NYT readers are highly conscious of and very sensitive as to how the American flag should be treated?

    Hmmm, maybe...

NYT readers are highly concerned about how WE would treat the flag. I have some experience here, upon which I will not expound.