Project Appleseed

I've got a LTR with TSR-100 Tech sights on them.  It is sighted in at 25m with the rear aperture. 

Is there some rule as to what the forward aperture would change my sight-in distance to?  Those of you running TSR-100s, which aperture are you sighted in with, and have you found any correlation between the apertures and equivalent sight-in distances?

Thanks.

What's a forward aperture?  Mine just has a front post and a rear aperture.  The rear does only windage and the front post does only elevation.  Both are about 1 MOA clicks on my rifle.

Quote from: Appalacious on April 22, 2010, 01:18:29 PM
What's a forward aperture?  Mine just has a front post and a rear aperture.  The rear does only windage and the front post does only elevation. 

Well I don't know the correct term for it, but my TSR-100 rear sight has two apertures at a 90degree angle.  Look close and I bet yours does too if you've got the 100 series for the Ruger 10/22.  You can flip back and forth between the two.  It is similar to an AR-15 rear sight.  By "forward aperture" I meant the one that lays down to the "front" when the other is being used.  The front one appears to be set higher, so I would think it would be set at zero for some longer distance than 25m when the shorter one (rear) is zeroed at 25.

For example, I am expecting something like "rear zeroed at 25m = forward zeroed at 54m" or something like that, I just don't know what the correlation is.  Also was curious to see if most people are zeroing using their "short" rear peep or the "taller" peep.

AH, misunderstood. Now that I do not know.  Obviously the adjustments would be the same (MOA per click), but there could be a difference in POI.

J

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=436627

Should throw some light....

My understanding... you are supposed (by the AR designers) to be using the big aperture for 0-xxx CQB (big aperture means bigger groups, less accurate sight alignment, but faster acquisition of targets in lower light conditions etc.). For xxx plus you switch to the smaller cos you need more accuracy and oh by the way we'll throw in a "y moa" comeup for ya... which should be close enough for government work.

So go with the dogma intended for the sight usage or just use the small aperture all the time 

Like one of the thread contributors said, you don't need to zero for each, just know what the "for free comeup" is when you switch between them and take account of it in your sight adjustment "comeups"...

Looks like TSR has decided on a 0-200 range (10/22 after all  ) so the exact numbers of the "free comeup" and range changes will need to be determined. Thats what KD shooting is for...

I'm sure there are better experts than me on here who could explain it better...

Quote from: V on April 22, 2010, 02:11:35 PM

My understanding... you are supposed (by the AR designers) to be using the big aperture for 0-xxx CQB (big aperture means bigger groups, less accurate sight alignment, but faster acquisition of targets in lower light conditions etc.). For xxx plus you switch to the smaller cos you need more accuracy and oh by the way we'll throw in a "y moa" comeup for ya... which should be close enough for government work.

That was my understanding of the AR design as well - large aperture for CQB and small for distance.  However, I don't have my rifle with me but IIRC, if one Tech-Sights aperture is any smaller than the other, it is on the "shorter" peep. 

Quote
So go with the dogma intended for the sight usage or just use the small aperture all the time 

That's what I've been doing so far.

Quote
Like one of the thread contributors said, you don't need to zero for each, just know what the "for free comeup" is when you switch between them and take account of it in your sight adjustment "comeups"...

Looks like TSR has decided on a 0-200 range (10/22 after all  ) so the exact numbers of the "free comeup" and range changes will need to be determined. Thats what KD shooting is for...

Yeah, that's what I was wondering - if anyone already knew the "free comeup" on the Tech Sights between the two apertures before I start trying to figure it out.  I may put in a call to the company and see what they intended...

IIRC - It goes something like this:

Set Battle Sight Zero using the small aperture - set POI at 38 meters or 300 meters - ballistically it works.

the larger aperture, labeled 0-2, is used for 50 and/ or 200 meters - the larger is lower than the smaller aperture

So if you're using the large aperture and ran out of adjustment on your front post, flip the rear over to small one - It's about 4 MOA +/-

When you figure it out let us know - I plan on getting to the range next week and will add 1" squares for a test

Quote from: Sprocket on April 22, 2010, 03:16:54 PM
IIRC - It goes something like this:

Set Battle Sight Zero using the small aperture - set POI at 38 meters or 300 meters - ballistically it works.

the larger aperture, labeled 0-2, is used for 50 and/ or 200 meters - the larger is lower than the smaller aperture

So if you're using the large aperture and ran out of adjustment on your front post, flip the rear over to small one - It's about 4 MOA +/-

When you figure it out let us know - I plan on getting to the range next week and will add 1" squares for a test

Sounds like you are talking about the equivalent zeroes for an AR-15, right?  I am asking about the zeros for a Ruger 10/22.  

Actually, the Tech-Sights website shows both of the apertures as being the same diameter - 0.062"

If I ever run down the answer, I'll be sure to let everyone know.  But it may be awhile before I can get to a range and test it out. 

For me, my tech sights 100 have the two apetures 90 degrees from one another, the forward being taller than the rear. With a std 10/22 carbine and remington golden bullets (I know cheap bulk) when I zero with the shorter (read rear apeture) at 25M and flip to the taller (read front apeture) my point of aim and point of impact are the same at 100 yd. I have tried this with the federal bulk but it put me about 3-4 inches low at 100. Obviously it will vary with the ammunition used, but I know I found it convenient that simply by flipping the apetures I can be dead on at 25 and then dead on at 100.

My .02
DryFire

Quote from: DryFire on April 22, 2010, 03:23:52 PM
For me, my tech sights 100 have the two apetures 90 degrees from one another, the forward being taller than the rear. With a std 10/22 carbine and remington golden bullets (I know cheap bulk) when I zero with the shorter (read rear apeture) at 25M and flip to the taller (read front apeture) my point of aim and point of impact are the same at 100 yd. I have tried this with the federal bulk but it put me about 3-4 inches low at 100. Obviously it will vary with the ammunition used, but I know I found it convenient that simply by flipping the apetures I can be dead on at 25 and then dead on at 100.

My .02
DryFire

Thanks, that's exactly the type of info I was looking for.  I guess it will vary somewhat as you said due to ammo, but I wanted a ballpark zero for the taller aperture based on zeroing the shorter one at 25.  Sounds like a good starting point for me to check mine.  But my 22s all seem to hate Golden Bullets, so it will be Federal bulk for me.

I like your idea of asking TechSights what they intend it to do.

I've seen reviews in searches which also say that the two apertures are the same size... so not trying to emulate the function of the AR then... which sounds instead like they are trying to give you a x yard vs y yard switch based on some "standard" 22LR drop off...

?

If a call into Tech Sites is being made can you ask if each aperture is the same height

On a std AR sight the apertures are both different sizes and different heights

Err...or one could just zero at 25 with one peep, switch to the other and see what the effect is.  Probably be +-3 to 4 MOA depending on which one was the initial Zero.

SoM

Quote from: Son of Martha on April 22, 2010, 10:25:52 PM
Err...or one could just zero at 25 with one peep, switch to the other and see what the effect is.  Probably be +-3 to 4 MOA depending on which one was the initial Zero.

SoM

My reason for suggesting a call was to find out what they intended it to be for... on many of the forums you can find people berating the company and saying its stupid etc cos its not like the AR... well duh, its a 22... just a chance for them to defend themselves.

Just got off the phone with a man from Tech-Sights.  He said it was indeed designed to a zero at two different distances.  He suggested that they have found that when the 0-2 aperture (the shorter, rear one) was zeroed at 50 yds, the taller one is approximately zeroed at 100 yds.  He said, of course this will vary due to different velocity ammo, different barrel lengths, etc...

I mentioned that I have been involved with the Appleseed program (never hurts to let them know where their customers are coming from, right?) and since we zero at 25, I was simply wondering if there was a particular zero that would correlate to that with the taller post. 

He also said that the aperture is interchangeable with standard M16/AR15 apertures, so if a user wanted to replace the factory Tech-Sights aperture he could disassemble it and replace with an AR-15 type aperture if he prefers. 

So, for what that's worth.  I guess it is up to each user to field-test and verify the two zeros as they relate to their own rifle and preferred ammo from this point. 

Here's the ticket for a replacement.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=640139

Research complete - results to be posted shortly

Stay tuned...

Mine is approx. a 6 moa shift with mini-mags...(I never took the time to really take notice...  I just get upset that I forgot to check before firing that AQT )

The TS100 is an A1 type sight.  I believe origionally the idea on the M16 was to have it set at 300m and 500m. 
The A2 sights are on the same plane; so you have the same zero just different apperatures for target aquisition.

So yes, there is a zero shift.  You just gotta figure it out for your rifle/ammo combo.  0-2 would be your BSZ and the taller; your nominal range.
My subconscious physics calculator would say your looking at 25/75 and a flip to 100.
That's where I'd start.

Here are the pictures of my targets - these were the first rounds fired on the day