Project Appleseed

Regional Forums => MidAtlantic Region - DE, MD, NC, PA, VA, WV => Topic started by: Caife Trean on July 13, 2021, 03:40:46 AM

Title: New to Ruger
Post by: Caife Trean on July 13, 2021, 03:40:46 AM
Hi all,

I went to my first appleseed event this past weekend. I'm relatively new to shooting, and currently operate a centerfire rifle, but this weekend highlighted some of the functional and logistical advantages of the .22 LR round. I'm planning on picking up a Ruger 10/22 within the next few weeks, but I have a couple questions for those experienced with this rifle:

1. What modifications if any would you recommend to improve accuracy and reliability? Is it ready to roll right out of the box or are there any known issues that are usually addressed after market?

2. With a standard .22, if I zero my sights at 25 yds, what is the corresponding far zero going to be?

3. Based on the expected far zero, what kind of sights would you recommend for this rifle, and how much magnification would I really need?
Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: ItsanSKS on July 13, 2021, 04:37:31 AM


Welcome to the forum!

As you might expect, we frequently field questions regarding how to set up a Ruger 10/22 for use at Appleseed.  We created a flier to help:
https://appleseedinfo.org/pdf/LTR.pdf

There's also a ton of information to be found in the Appleseed LTR mega-thread, found here: https://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=32.0

One of the big challenges that new-in-box Ruger 10/22's tend to have, is that the magazine does not drop freely from the magazine well.  In my experience, this has been due to a great deal of over-spray of the paint/finish that is used on the receiver.  Prolonged use will wear the finish down, or you can speed the process up with some sandpaper, files, and emory cloth.  I'm certain a review of Youtube will lend some ideas towards cleaning up the magazine well. 


With regard to near zero/far zero, it depends on two things: the velocity of the ammunition being used, and the height of your sights above the bore.  With standard velocity ammunition, and typical "low" scope mounting height (or iron sights), a 25m zero = ~50yd zero.  (give or take).  High velocity ammunition can get a little further, to maybe 75yards or so without adjusting the sights. 

If you are routinely going to use this rifle beyond 25m, I suggest a scope, for the sole reason that you may quickly run out of the elevation adjustment necessary to go beyond 100yds; if, on the other hand, the rifle will mainly be used at 25m, with sporadic outings out to 100yds, a good set of tech-sights will do very well (assuming your eyesight allows the use of irons). 

Magnification is a double-edged sword.  The higher the magification, the bigger the target appears, but also the more unstable your position seems to be.  I recommend keeping the magnification to not higher than 4x, and getting a fixed power scope in the 4x-6x range would be ideal. 

Hope the above helps answer your questions, feel free to ask as many as you'd like. 

Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: SteelThunder on July 13, 2021, 09:33:32 AM
^^^What he said.

My own "must haves" (not really must...but it will certainly make your life much more pleasant) list for a new 10/22 are:

It's possible to spend $1000's on Rugers to make them into space rifles...don't do that until you know how to shoot.  You don't have to have these...many people have scored Rifleman with a bone stock Ruger...but these inexpensive small adjustments will let you focus on growing your skills as a marksman vs fighting the inherent deficiencies of the platform.
Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: misawa on July 13, 2021, 09:44:46 AM
The auto-bolt release modification (or buying one) is a must for my 10/22s.  It can really be a challenge when introducing a new shooter to the 10/22 explaining how to lock/release the bolt.  At least with this mod they just have to learn the magic hand jive for locking back.
Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: Monkey on July 13, 2021, 11:00:55 AM
Not much more to add than what my esteemed brethren have already added.

If you aren't comfortable taking your trigger assembly apart to install a new trigger hammer, consider the Ruger BX trigger pack.  It's an easy, quick swap. 

For the money, it's a great upgrade.  Any better triggers will cost you much more than the BX trigger pack.

For scopes, I've had good luck with the UTG Bugbuster scopes on Amazon. 

My $0.01 (Appleseeder discount applied).
Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: Caife Trean on July 13, 2021, 12:15:34 PM
Thanks for the great feedback, everyone! Much appreciated.
Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: SteelThunder on July 13, 2021, 12:17:50 PM
The auto-bolt release modification (or buying one) is a must for my 10/22s.  It can really be a challenge when introducing a new shooter to the 10/22 explaining how to lock/release the bolt.  At least with this mod they just have to learn the magic hand jive for locking back.

How did I forget this?   :slap:
Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: TheMadPoet on July 13, 2021, 01:19:20 PM
after my first Appleseed and having problems with my 33yr old 1022 I tricked it out
Kidd Heavy Chromemoly barrel
Kidd Single Stage 2lb trigger
Magpul x22 stock
Vortex DiamondBack 2-7

Basically a new gun. Now the gun is a tack driver, shooting dime size 10shot groups at 25m on a bench with bags

Been practicing and last weekend shot 4 AQT and 3 of the 4 scored over 210

yes I dropped some $ in my "new" gun but now I can't say it was the gun as it is more accurate than I am now.
The Kidd trigger is probably the first thing I would do to another 1022 if I was going to mod it. Trigger control is 60-70% of accuracy and having a crisp 2lb trigger makes a huge difference, at least for me. Also the Kidd trigger has the bolt release built in so that issue is resolved.

Did I go overkill? Yes but that is usually how I roll.
Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: TheMenace on July 13, 2021, 03:50:00 PM
Here's another aspect of the magazine's failure to drop free. The loose production tolerances of polymer stocks and magazines can cause them to bind. I scuff the sides of new mags on a sheet of fine (320-400 grit) sandpaper laid on a flat surface. You'll see the ridges appear and disappear as you polish the mags. Check the throat of the mag well for imperfections that can also cause mags to hang up.
Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: Paladin223 on July 13, 2021, 08:36:51 PM
After reading the book "Customize the Ruger 10/22 " by James and Kathleen House, I decided the 10/22 Target would be the way to go. Six or seven modified 10/22's later, it's still as accurate and reliable as any other.  If finances allow, the Custom Shop 10/22 includes all the mods that would be done to a standard rifle. Only change I've done to the CS was a Brimstone Gunsmith modified standard trigger assembly.  If multiple shooters will be using the rifle, an Archangel Precision stock with QD mounted scope allows quick adjustments to different shooters.
For any standard rifle, as mentioned earlier, a few things will make things easier: "auto" bolt release, extended mag release, and an extended scope mounting rail or cantilevered scope mount.    Good shooting.
Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: FiremanBob on July 13, 2021, 09:43:24 PM
The standard Ruger bolt release is a safety mechanism designed to prevent accidental closing of the bolt and possible consequent slam-fires. If you have a student whose rifle still has the OEM bolt release and struggles with it, you can teach him using the method in this video: https://youtu.be/wwn3t7nS9gY (https://youtu.be/wwn3t7nS9gY).

Also, teach the student that in prep, as soon as he is in shooting position he should remove his chamber flag and close the bolt, and not lock it back again until clearing after the cease-fire. I've seen too many students panic because they could not close their bolts after the Fire command in stages two and three.

Other observations on the 10/22:

If you get the target model or any aftermarket barrel, you must keep the chamber perfectly clean or you will get multiple misfires.

The OEM stock is designed for use with the OEM sights, which are very low. Using a scope or Tech-Sights will force you to use a "jaw weld" rather than a solid cheek weld unless you change to an aftermarket stock or modify it with a temporary or permanent riser. This makes a big difference in comfort and consistency while shooting. The original 50th Anniversary rifle, designed by an Appleseed instructor, had both low and high comb pieces to accommodate scope use. It's a shame they didn't make that a permanent style in the product line.
Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: Maximum Ordinate on July 13, 2021, 11:50:48 PM
Also, teach the student that in prep, as soon as he is in shooting position he should remove his chamber flag and close the bolt, and not lock it back again until clearing after the cease-fire.

Every shooter should be dry firing in EVERY preparation period.  They can't do that with a bolt locked back.   ;)
Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: Eagle Keeper on July 14, 2021, 06:01:30 AM
To learn and study his craft  a rifleman needs a good rifle an a GI web sling.  Everything else is extra based on your goals and your budget. 

Some of the extras I recommend to help the learning process  are a  good basic scope that holds zero and lets you zero your shots on the target. That is what counts.
 I use a Center Point  4-16x40 mm ( I just sent a kid to national competition with one strapped to an air rifle, it survived a teenager on a road trip. ) . 

On loaner rifles especially with kids I like a RedDot with a 1MOA size dot , the dot is the same size as the bullet at 25yds . It simplifies teaching sights and scopes to “put the red dot where you want the bullet to go”.

If you want to upgrade the stock. I like the Archangel stock on my rifle.

Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: Charles McKinley on July 18, 2021, 09:43:40 PM
Change as little as possible until you can put 10 rounds in the inch square.

Way to attach a sling

Tech sights or a cantilever scope rail ( needed to get scope forward enough in prone) and scope 4x

In expensive mods to the stock to make it fit you: length of pull, cheek riser.

Ask to barrow a couple different correctly set up Liberty training rifles or instructors personal rifles until you know what you actually spending $$$ on stuff that won't work for you.  Don't fool yourself about your eyesight.  Use a rifle with tech sights before investing in them.  This paragraph should have been on top of my post.
Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: jtdiver on July 19, 2021, 11:02:43 AM
I would address issues as they come,  mag problem: take the magazines and check for sharp edges, with 320 grit sand paper, smooth and round edges, am referring to the "plastic" body of the mags . Cleaning and check for fit. A little goes a long way.   Also on the stock, where the mags fit into the rifle, sand and round the edges with the sand paper. I put tissue paper into the mag weld to keep grit from getting into action. This will help when inserting the mags in timed events.  Also the synthetic stocks tend to be a bit unstable and bend in hot weather.  I have built and worked with around 10, 10/22s and found mags to cause a lot of problems, second on my list is "plastic" stocks but they get the job done. Yes, upgrades are great and solve lots of problems. Take things slow and enjoy!


JTDIVER
Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: jtdiver on July 19, 2021, 02:58:16 PM
sorry! your question was about sights.  I use two different sight setups.  Due to senior citizen eyes I typically rely on a scope. Keep it simple, quality scope say 3-9 x.  More than 3x for Appleseed and you get too much movement on target. 2nd setup is similar to Tech sight.
It is a aperture sights and a front post. This is takes good eyes and a bit of practice. Focus on the front post, let the target go out of focus. Find what you are comfortable with and keep working on it. Stay the course and you will gather the fruits of your labours.  :D

JTDIVER
Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: Catch-10-22 on July 19, 2021, 03:17:24 PM
The standard Ruger bolt release is a safety mechanism designed to prevent accidental closing of the bolt and possible consequent slam-fires. If you have a student whose rifle still has the OEM bolt release and struggles with it, you can teach him using the method in this video: https://youtu.be/wwn3t7nS9gY (https://youtu.be/wwn3t7nS9gY).

Thank you so much for posting that! I have struggled to help students without the auto bolt release and this technique worked perfectly every time this weekend and the student mastered it quickly. So simple once you know.
Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: Caife Trean on July 25, 2021, 02:02:14 AM
Quick update. I bought a 10/22 this weekend. I found what y'all said about the mag well to be true, and sanding it down made ejection easier. It came with 1" sling swivels, so I threw on some 1" nylon webbing for a hasty sling at the range to break it in. The tiny bead on the front sight was almost impossible to see at an indoor range. So far I've ordered 1.25" swivels, a proper M1 sling, fiber optic iron sights, and a scope. Once I can get what I'm hitting and what I'm aiming at to align I'll look at further enhancements. [Edit: I put the weaver rail on after I took it home and cleaned it. I found that it obscured the rear sights so I left it off when I went to the range.]
Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: Paladin223 on July 25, 2021, 03:47:03 PM
FYI  TechSights offers a one inch M1 style sling that works great with many stock rifles.  I keep a couple on hand to loan to new shooters who need them.
 Much quicker and easier than also switching out swivels as well.
Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: Caife Trean on July 25, 2021, 10:06:15 PM
@Paladin223, thanks again for the tip. I've already swapped the sling swivels out. I ordered a 1.25" M1 sling off of OpticsPlanet, so it may arrive before the end of summer lol. In the mean time I'll probably have my rifles take turns with the one I already have.
Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: Caife Trean on August 19, 2021, 11:50:55 PM
Another update. I bought a cheap BSA Optics Sweet 22 scope. It works pretty well for 25m. I've ordered a bunch of the 13 shot appleseed targets off the store, cut them along the dotted lines, and used them to practice stages 2 and 3 of the AQT (this is where I kept running out of time at my first Appleseed). I set up 2 200yd targets side by side, and 3 300yd. The 10/22 is an awesome rifle! I'm able to operate it faster than my M4 carbine, even with my inexperience releasing the bolt. To that end I've also bought a Volquartsen auto release so I don't have to fumble with it. I keep practicing to engage and disengage the bolt release, but still am not where I want to be; so I'm cutting the Gordian Knot. The out of box trigger is decent enough, so I'm not planning to replace it. I bought a few different capacity magazines, and I find that the 10rd is still the fastest and easiest to load for the transition tests.

Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: The Wolfhound on August 20, 2021, 09:01:32 AM
Adding a "bumper" to your magazines is a cheap and useful addition.  it makes the mags drop free more easily by adding weight and you now have something to grab when malfunctions occur.  Your instructors will love you because it is much easier to see a mag when in the rifle, too.  "Badfishy" 3d prints them and they are also commercially available.
Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: ArmyVet on August 20, 2021, 07:13:26 PM
...used them to practice stages 2 and 3 of the AQT (this is where I kept running out of time at my first Appleseed).

You may have heard this at your event, but others reading this may benefit. Hopefully this does not sound condescending either!
Just before you begin stage 2 and 3, the command is "safeties on, stand". When you hear that and stand up start thinking about your plan for the FIRE command. There are a few things that you must do before you fire and they should be done in order:
- safety off
- magazine in
- cycle the bolt
- find your NPOA

It is essential that you find  your NPOA last (do all the others first). Otherwise, you have to break your NPOA to perform one of the other steps. I can't tell you how many times I watch someone shifting and getting set up only to THEN cycle the bolt and have to start over. 55 seconds and 65 seconds go by quickly and once you realize you made that faux pas, your mentality shifts to high gear and you may end up muscling the shot(s).
To put this into perspective, let's look at it mathematically. What is a better result:
a score of 3 ten times for 30 points  :-[
or
a score of 5 seven times for a score of 35 points  :)

Do not sacrifice NPOA for time.
Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: Not Sure on August 20, 2021, 09:55:42 PM
Kudos on the drive and dedication to achieving your goals.

To me, the auto bolt release is a must. Another improvement to consider is a mag release that you can activate easily and quickly.  The ones that wrap around the trigger guard work well for me.  There are many brands from which to choose.  I’m not sure how much of an improvement it really is but a bolt buffer is cheap and extremely easy to install while you have the rifle apart.  It’s just a rubberized pin that replacesq the steel pin that the bolt slams against at the back of the receiver.
Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: FiremanBob on August 20, 2021, 10:53:41 PM
The auto bolt release is NOT a must. Look at my video, referenced in my post above, for how to operate the OEM bolt release properly. If you think of the operation of four separate steps, it's easy - a one-minute learning curve.

Especially for total beginners, who need every margin of safety available, having to unlock the bolt release is a good safety feature. I teach them to close the bolt as soon as they are in position and have removed their chamber flag. Of course all my personal 10/22s have the auto release but I have some loaners which do not.

It would take hundreds of thousands of high-velocity rounds for the steel bolt pin to wear its holes in the receiver out of round, but I have seen a rifle that had this damage. Also for quiet operation and reduced vibration, I like either the polyurethane bolt buffers or even better, the Kidd bolt buffer which is a steel pin inside a Viton rubber sleeve. The Kidd buffer is much easier to install. Some people try to use nylon bolts but I find they don't work very well and quickly get beaten out of shape.

I actually prefer the OEM Ruger mag release. It is easy to operate with the index finger and has a very short travel. One disadvantage of the longer levers is that you have to move them that much farther to release the mag. Of course, the old style OEM release, which sat flush with the stock and had to be pushed up, was a genuine PITA.

Bottom line, what do you really need to do to a 10/22?
- make sure mags drop freely
- OEM open sights are junk. Get a peep sight, preferably Tech-Sights, or a scope
- if it doesn't have sling swivels, install some. Remember to use glue on the threads if you have a wood stock, so that the swivel doesn't pull out over time with sling tension

That's all you need to make Rifleman or even Distinguished. All the other enhancements just make it easier, but they are not necessary.

Notice how nobody talks about installing fancy target barrels or 2lb triggers on their M1s?
Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: Caife Trean on August 20, 2021, 11:25:42 PM
Wow, thanks for all the feedback! @FiremanBob, I'd followed the video you shared earlier, which is where I learned the exercise to practice the mechanics of retaining and releasing the bolt; perhaps I'm being lazy in avoiding the learning curve. Also thanks for the tip on improving the receiver's longevity. How hard is it to remove and reinstall the Kidd bolt buffer for cleaning? @ArmyVet, not condescending at all. @the Wolfhound thanks for the tip on the mag bumper. I'll put these on my list.
Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: FiremanBob on August 21, 2021, 07:59:32 AM
Well you see, that's the great advantage of the Kidd buffer. The sleeve is easily compressible and goes into the holes first, then the pin goes in to set it all firmly in place. Removal is easy with a small punch to start the pin out.

Nobody in the solar system makes better 10/22 upgrade parts than Kidd.

As to the bolt release, I'll say again: You MUST think of the action as four separate steps. If you try to combine steps, for example releasing the bolt while the lever is still pressed up, you will fail. With practice it becomes very smooth and quick, but it's still four separate steps.
Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: 9mm4545 on August 21, 2021, 05:25:07 PM
A “dual mag clip (coupler)” from Brownell’s for about 5 bucks will make mag changes easier. This little piece joins two standard 10 round Ruger magazines together back to back (floor plate to floor plate). I glued the mags to the clip with epoxy but if you ever think you might want to separate them, use silicone or RTV sealant instead. There are other companies that sell devices that will join two or even three mags, Tandemkross is one such company. Alangator Tri-Mag triple mag coupler is another. To switch mags just drop the empty mag, flip it over and briskly insert into the mag well. Rack the bolt, NPOA check, 6-steps, BANG! HIT!

You can use a combo of clear and black mags to tell which mag is prepped with 8 and which with 2, or you might find it helpful to use a magic marker to write “2” and “8” on the feed lips of each mag and prep accordingly.

Lastly, number your mags. Mag issues are a common cause of semiautomatic firearm malfunctions and figuring out if a particular mag is the culprit is easier if the mags are numbered.
Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: Caife Trean on August 23, 2021, 09:15:27 AM
Lastly, number your mags. Mag issues are a common cause of semiautomatic firearm malfunctions and figuring out if a particular mag is the culprit is easier if the mags are numbered.

Awesome tip!
Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: Caife Trean on August 26, 2021, 11:27:03 PM
Hi all. Not sure how I did it, but somewhere along the line of installing the Volquartsen auto bolt release and the KIDD buffer I seem to have messed up the alignment of the trigger group. I took it to the range to try out the new parts, and when I tried to insert a magazine it wouldn't fit. The space is too short for it to fit into the mag well. It catches in the front and back, and jams, sticking out the bottom about 1/3". I've tried disassembling and re-assembling the entire trigger group a few times, but this keeps happening. I don't see any distortions or bending around the receiver frame. Has anyone seen this sort of thing before? Please advise.
Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: Charles McKinley on August 26, 2021, 11:28:32 PM
First thing you do in prep period is remove the chamber flag and drop your bolt.  This makes the auto bolt release a non-issue.  Also if someone barrows your rifle they will be able to work their own 10/22 when they buy it and it doesn’t have the release.  If I can teach my 8 and 9 year old daughters to do it anyone ready to safely operate a rifle can learn the 10/22 bolt release.
Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: Not Sure on August 26, 2021, 11:36:47 PM
Sounds kind of impossible given that everything is simply pinned together only when the holes line up.  Can you test mag insertion and release with the stock removed?  If there’s a problem with the stock removed, I would suspect an issue with the plunger.  Otherwise, maybe an issue with the alignment with the action and the stock.
Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: Caife Trean on August 27, 2021, 12:18:51 AM
@arrows & olives: I'm seeing the same thing with the stock off. [NOTE: Magazine and chamber are empty]
Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: Caife Trean on August 27, 2021, 12:40:32 AM
Aha! Looks like it was the bolt release. When I swapped the factory original back in I was able to feed a magazine in again.
Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: FiremanBob on August 27, 2021, 06:22:42 AM
If the bolt lock plate is inserted wrongly, it will bind on the mag release plunger and prevent it from moving backward when inserting the magazine. No need for full disassembly, just the lock plate and sometimes the mag release.

Another common error is having the bolt lock spring oriented wrongly when inserting the plate. If the dogleg arm of the spring is below the plate, it won't work. Also, if the dogleg arm of the spring is facing the rear, nothing will work.

An unrelated, but equally common, error is allowing the ejector to slip out of place when inserting the trigger group into the receiver. If I have a very loose ejector I'll put some electrical tape on the side of it to tighten the fit in the slot of the housing. Some aftermarket trigger groups (Kidd) fix the ejector in place so it can't move.
Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: Monkey on August 27, 2021, 12:46:37 PM
If the bolt lock plate is inserted wrongly, it will bind on the mag release plunger and prevent it from moving backward when inserting the magazine. No need for full disassembly, just the lock plate and sometimes the mag release.

Another common error is having the bolt lock spring oriented wrongly when inserting the plate. If the dogleg arm of the spring is below the plate, it won't work. Also, if the dogleg arm of the spring is facing the rear, nothing will work.

An unrelated, but equally common, error is allowing the ejector to slip out of place when inserting the trigger group into the receiver. If I have a very loose ejector I'll put some electrical tape on the side of it to tighten the fit in the slot of the housing. Some aftermarket trigger groups (Kidd) fix the ejector in place so it can't move.

This post would have been useful...6 years ago.   ;D
Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: Caife Trean on September 19, 2021, 09:48:02 PM
Thanks again for all the advice. It paid off in a big way!
Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: Hasty Sling on September 19, 2021, 10:17:07 PM
Thanks again for all the advice. It paid off in a big way!

Real nice shootin’. Superbly done. Every Rifleman score is a rush, ain’t it?
Title: Re: New to Ruger
Post by: Caife Trean on September 20, 2021, 01:28:26 PM
Thanks again for all the advice. It paid off in a big way!

Real nice shootin’. Superbly done. Every Rifleman score is a rush, ain’t it?

Yes! On day 2 it just clicked for me. Scored a few passing AQTs after that one, but I didn't submit them for a score since none were as high. Hoping to earn Distinguished on my next Appleseed