Project Appleseed

Your Appleseed State Board => Montana (TrebleShooter and lumberjack55) => Topic started by: George Hacker on January 22, 2013, 02:03:45 PM

Title: Want to Have an IBC?
Post by: George Hacker on January 22, 2013, 02:03:45 PM
Team Montana,

We just finished having an IBC in western Washington this past weekend.  It was my first one and it was awesome!  Even though I am a shoot boss it helped fill in the gaps of my knowledge.

One day was spent talking about the history of April 19, 1775 and how to tell stories effectively.  The other day was spent talking about keeping the firing line safe and teaching rifle marksmanship.

So this is my question for you - would you like to have an IBC in your state?  If so, please reply to this thread and express your interest.  If you would like to help with planning, please send me a PM.

In liberty,

ShadowMan
Title: Re: Want to Have an IBC?
Post by: m1awolf on January 22, 2013, 04:02:00 PM
 There are several of us that will need to complete this before advancing. An IBC in Montana would be ideal for all I know myself and Country are in Great Falls and we have a new recruit from Missoula IIRC not sure of the locations for others but it seems that Great Falls is centrally located and we have classroom/range facilities at both indoor and outdoor ranges. Country would need to arrange the range times as to not conflict with other range activities.
Title: Re: Want to Have an IBC?
Post by: George Hacker on January 22, 2013, 04:10:54 PM
We scheduled ours during the cold months when shoots didn't need to be staffed.  Ideally it would be good to have an IBC just before actual events (perhaps a week or two before Patriot's Day weekend shoots in early April?).  We didn't do any shooting at our IBC, it was all classroom work and it was very valuable.

Thanks for your interest, m1awolf.

ShadowMan
Title: Re: Want to Have an IBC?
Post by: Necee on January 22, 2013, 07:47:47 PM
In the past, we had an IBC/RBC with the Sept shoot in 3Forks.  It was a week long and people camped out near the range.  Attendance dwindled, so we just left the shoot and sent anyone interested to the IBC's in ID/WY.   I have heard great things about them though :) 

Title: Re: Want to Have an IBC?
Post by: Spartan24 on January 23, 2013, 11:47:30 PM
I am an IIT3 but I could always use the help with the knowledge, keeping the mind sharp and all. What I would be most interested in would be the history telling. At the very least, Montana has a lot of newer orange hats (Great Falls *cough cough* Missoula *cough cough*) that it would be great to get them further up the ladder.
Title: Re: Want to Have an IBC?
Post by: Mark Davis on January 23, 2013, 11:55:19 PM
Great Falls is closer to Missoula than Bozeman is to Missoula. Great Falls has the indoor range, sutibal for class room.
Great Falls is not out of driving range to Kalispell area.
Great Falls is closer to Bozeman than Bozeman is to either Kalispell and Missoula
Do I seem biased?
Title: Re: Want to Have an IBC?
Post by: Countree on January 27, 2013, 01:49:55 AM
lets do it. i don't want to overwhelm the scale but I vote Great Falls
Title: Re: Want to Have an IBC?
Post by: hawkhavn on January 27, 2013, 11:01:51 AM
We don't need much, the Battle Ground IBC was held in a century old schoolhouse with a wood stove for heat.
Sure appreciated the indoor plumbing though.
Seriously, we need a room with tables and chairs in a building that allows firearms, everything else is a bonus.
Let's get at least 7 folks together and set a date.

HH
Title: Re: Want to Have an IBC?
Post by: Mark Davis on January 27, 2013, 12:16:15 PM
The indoor range has all that and a kitchen.
Paul, are there some free weekends between now and the first of April?
I am booked first weekend of March for the 4H state tournement and easter Sat. for BPCR hunter safari.
Title: Re: Want to Have an IBC?
Post by: George Hacker on January 27, 2013, 01:04:19 PM
If the IBC were in Great Falls in March or early April, who would be willing to come to it?

ShadowMan
Title: Re: Want to Have an IBC?
Post by: Mark Davis on January 27, 2013, 02:26:58 PM
Present!
Title: Re: Want to Have an IBC?
Post by: MrFixit on January 27, 2013, 09:44:20 PM
Greetings from your neighbor in ND! I may be interested in attending, if the dates and location works for me... I am an IIT3 right now, and could use some help learning the story telling... We are really short staffed in ND right now, as our volunteer core pretty much fell apart... Long story, but one red hat moved out of state, our other red hat and an orange hat have pretty much quit the program do to life issues, (Going to college, work...)  which leaves me as the sole appleseeder in the state!
  I will keep an eye on here to see what you all decide.  ;) Would be nice to meet you all!
    Andrew B.
Title: Re: Want to Have an IBC?
Post by: Transform on January 27, 2013, 11:51:38 PM
Good on you for persevering through this major challenge, MrFixit! Stick with it! PM inbound.

Title: Re: Want to Have an IBC?
Post by: m1awolf on January 28, 2013, 01:08:10 AM
 I think I can speak for both myself and Country,if it is in Great Falls we will be there.
Title: Re: Want to Have an IBC?
Post by: Countree on January 30, 2013, 01:31:19 AM
yes i will attend and would be a nice location (for me) if it is in GF. We are centrally located for the State's Convience.

I can make almost any weekend available for either the classroom at the outdoor range(2nd Saturday is booked every month) or the indoor range(most will work out here)

Title: Re: Want to Have an IBC?
Post by: peterlandsiedel on February 03, 2013, 09:02:43 PM
I would definitely head to an IBC in Great Falls this spring. Count me in.
Title: Re: Want to Have an IBC?
Post by: Countree on February 10, 2013, 06:02:23 PM
Ok everyone,

I have talked with Hawkhavn a lil bit and he is available the 1st, 3rd, and last weekend in March. I can set up the range for any of those dates and I can't think of anything that I have pressing in March on any of those weekends so lets discuss and find a weekend that will hopefully work for everyone!

So will it be:
March 2-3
March 16-17
Or March 30-31?
Title: Re: Want to Have an IBC?
Post by: m1awolf on February 10, 2013, 07:37:47 PM
 I just need to know a week in advance to make sure I have the Saturday off.
Title: Re: Want to Have an IBC?
Post by: Mark Davis on February 10, 2013, 07:59:47 PM
March 16-17 is the only offered weekend I can be there.

March 2-3 is 4-H shooting sports state championships, where I work as range officer.
March 30 I work as Range officer for a Blackpowder shoot.
March 31 is Easter Sunday.
Title: Re: Want to Have an IBC?
Post by: hawkhavn on February 10, 2013, 08:40:12 PM
Missed Easter being on the 31st.  Let's take that out of consideration.

HH
Title: Re: Want to Have an IBC?
Post by: Kaiser Leib on February 12, 2013, 03:48:11 PM
I'd like to have one, for sure. I think the 16-17 makes the most sense.
Title: Re: Want to Have an IBC? - Sign up now!
Post by: hawkhavn on February 19, 2013, 09:54:00 PM
All,

The date is set and the IBC is on Eventbrite here:
http://www.eventbrite.com/event/5547410454#

Please get signed up ASAP as I need to buy a ticket soon!
This event is open to all current RWVA Instructors from IIT0 up.

Thanks
HH
Title: Re: Want to Have an IBC?
Post by: hawkhavn on February 22, 2013, 05:46:54 PM
Great, we have one signed up!
Now that the ice is broken, where is everyone else?
Title: Re: Want to Have an IBC?
Post by: Mark Davis on February 22, 2013, 06:51:48 PM
I think all the under employed ITTs are concerned about paying 80 dollars to become volenteers.
Title: Re: Want to Have an IBC?
Post by: Roland on February 22, 2013, 07:38:17 PM
Didn't these use to be free? I agree with mark.
Title: Re: Want to Have an IBC?
Post by: Theophilus on February 22, 2013, 08:18:53 PM
Joni and I paid for our first one.
I think the rule used to be, probably still is, IITs pay for their first one, RHs are/were no charge, Fred's AIBC is no charge.

I encourage you all to go.  It is a worthwhile learning experience in a friendly environment.

Theophilus
Title: Re: Want to Have an IBC?
Post by: Transform on February 22, 2013, 10:09:20 PM
It is an INCREDIBLY worthwhile learning experience, in an AMAZINGLY friendly environment!

Regarding pricing:
It's only $70 (not $80) for non-instructors and IIT0 - IIT3 to attend their first IBC. Thereafter, all additional IBCs are free and highly encouraged. It's also free and highly encouraged for IIT4, RH, and above.

Why isn't it free for everyone?
It often costs the RWVA much more to put on an IBC than the total fees collected. The fee just helps to partially offset the cost of providing you with this valuable training.

Then why do only IITs pay?
The training benefits everyone who attends, but it's mostly focused on the newer IITs. It's almost like attending a semi-private tutoring session, but much less expensive. (Plus, a little skin in the game helps to reduce attrition.)

So then why not charge everyone?
To have the best instructors, we need to provide regular instructor development. That's what IBCs help RWVA to accomplish. But if people are complaining about one fee, how else can we keep them coming back every year?

What if I really can't afford the fee?
Given that the costs of food and fuel for the weekend are probably more than the fee itself, $70 shouldn't be a make it or break it deal for almost anyone. But if the fee is really going to stop you from attending an IBC, then please PM Hawkhavn to discuss it. (Or else PM me. I'm not employed but I'll scholarship you myself.)

Title: Re: Want to Have an IBC?
Post by: Countree on February 24, 2013, 01:03:57 PM
I agree with both sides of the "pay to volunteer" arguement.

Having an IBC does create overhead. Having a little "skin" in the game will result in more participtation and ongoing involvement.

But as a young volunteer, that volunteers a lot of my time with many programs, I can't convince myself that, in order to be a more effective volunteer, I have to put out that much of an investment. As with any program that a person becomes involved in, I believe in all the programs that I volunteer in. I put in a ton of extra leg work in most of these programs and if I put $70 into all of them, then I would be running my check book into the red along with my ambition. The point is, I try to make the most of my time that I have available for volunteering. I can invest my time in a handful of other "worthy" programs that I don't have to spend my money to volunteer.

A lesser "fee" would make this easier for me to swallow. I, myself, am fully committed to AS and do not need to have any extra skin in the game.

I do not make the rules but I believe this one should be reevaluated.

(steps off soapbox)

I just booked my spot and encourage all other IIT's to do the same, we will have a good time and will be in good company.
Title: Re: Want to Have an IBC?
Post by: Transform on February 24, 2013, 05:35:38 PM
Thanks for all the volunteering you do Countree, you truly make your community a better place!
(IMHO, if Appleseed's mission is getting Americans off the couch, then re-imbuing our  communities with the original spirit of volunteerism that drove most early Americans will be one of the likely results of our success.)

I had very similar thoughts to yours just a few months ago, and I honestly felt somewhat reluctant about paying for my first IBC, before I attended and discovered that it was worth much more to me than what I had paid for it. (And no, it did not save me any steps on the Appleseed Trail, it took me from IIT2 to IIT3 just the same as if I had not attended.)

"I can't convince myself that, in order to be a more effective volunteer, I have to put out that much of an investment."
Actually, you will have to put out much more of an investment than this to be an effective volunteer! My first IBC cost me well over $200 since I live several hours away (and since I brought several pizzas), but the real cost is probably better measured in other ways. Both physics and economics teach us that time=money=energy, but our society is so lax on basic economic education that very few people really understand that these things are fungible (the units are capable of mutual substitution). The common logical error is in mistaking liquidity for fungibility, and the usual results are for good folks (like Appleseeders) to give quite freely of ourselves, but to balk at much smaller items that simply "feel unjust", without ever exerting the calculus of logic upon our feelings. No shame in this, it's a normal human reaction.
(Sorry for all the academic language, I honestly can't think fo a simpler way to say this at the moment.)

"I do not make the rules but I believe this one should be reevaluated."
Actually, it WAS reevaluated just a couple of years ago, and this small fee is one of the results.
However, there is another alternative if you really want to see this changed in the future. Do what Kosciusko did (http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=34240.0): find a free location (which you've done), arrange for free food, and above all, cultivate a local IBC instructor who doesn't need to be flown out to your location. As Fred keeps saying, we don't have to live with problems, we can fix 'em instead.

Anyway, as I said before, I'm neither employed nor wealthy, but I do believe in fungibility, so if anyone is truly balking at the $70, PM me and I'll trade you an IBC reg fee for a certain number of hours of your volunteer labor. One thing that Appleseed has taught me is that I can live without a couple of pizzas, but I can't live without multiplying my own effectiveness whenever possible. That's what an IBC is really for -- increasing our own effectiveness.

Title: Re: Want to Have an IBC?
Post by: Mark Davis on February 24, 2013, 10:55:41 PM
Countree did find a free location, Countree is the reason (with a little nudge from M1AWolf) applesed is in Great Falls.
Countree above all others has earned his spot at the instructor boot camp.
Title: Re: Want to Have an IBC?
Post by: m1awolf on February 24, 2013, 11:01:17 PM
 I just registered and will be there.
Title: Re: Want to Have an IBC?
Post by: hawkhavn on February 26, 2013, 10:41:33 PM
Well, there is an airplane ticket with my name on it for 14 days from now.
I'll be in mid-day Friday with a Monday departure.
Let's see how many folks we can add in the next two weeks.

HH
Title: Re: Want to Have an IBC?
Post by: Kaiser Leib on February 28, 2013, 12:50:29 PM
I just signed up and will be there.
Title: Re: Want to Have an IBC?
Post by: peterlandsiedel on March 05, 2013, 03:09:30 AM
I just bought my ticket for the IBC. Looking forward to seeing all of you again.

On a side note, I'm also going to the Appleseed in Coeur d'Alene this coming weekend (the 9th and the 10th), anyone else going?
Title: Re: Want to Have an IBC?
Post by: hawkhavn on March 10, 2013, 08:19:15 PM
We're down to 6 days and still have some slots open.
Get signed up now. If the fee is an issue, drop me a PM!

HH
Title: Re: Want to Have an IBC?
Post by: kc2jmn on March 18, 2013, 02:32:56 AM
as some one that has never gone to a Appleseed i had a great time this weekend it was nice to meet every one and listen to there POV on Appleseed and shooting. i will be working very hard to get my riflemen during the April shoot here in Great Falls MT. Also a big thanks to Countree for putting the weekend together and a huge thanks to  hawkhavn for putting up with us for 2 days. hope to see every one at the next shoot in April