Project Appleseed

Appleseed Welcome Center => Ask an Instructor! => Adaptive Appleseed Program => Topic started by: Chilidog on March 14, 2011, 11:45:11 AM

Title: Our first Wheelchair shooter
Post by: Chilidog on March 14, 2011, 11:45:11 AM: I am from the Bedford Contingent and the IN SC for AC. In April we have our first wheelchair coming. Our ground in not smooth so I was thinking of Building a plywood lane to get him on and off the line. What about a rack to put his gun on while on the line? I am trying to make it possible for him to be self sufficient. As much as possible. Do you have any other ideas? This is my first time dealing with this. I don't even know someone in this condition. So I don't want to offend him or screw anything up.
Chilidog
Title: Re: Our first Wheelchair shooter
Post by: 2 clicks low on March 14, 2011, 12:19:54 PM: If in doubt ask him/her. Give the shooter a call, outline the conditions on the range and ask "what do you need for a safe and fun shoot?" They know best.
2cl
Title: Re: Our first Wheelchair shooter
Post by: yellowhousejake on March 14, 2011, 12:30:24 PM: Agreed, talk with the shooter as they know better than anyone what they are capable of, and what they are willing to try. Also, bring your SB into the discussion as quick as you can so they are involved from the beginning. The three of you should be able to come up with a plan in time for the event to go off successfully for everyone.

(I'd look at taking your bucket and making a long flat spot, two spaces wide, from the firing line to the equipment line, on the high/right side of the line. Drop plywood or a heavy industrial mat on it. I'd add a stop log/bumper on the front side as well, just in case.)

YHJ
Title: Re: Our first Wheelchair shooter
Post by: TruTenacity on March 14, 2011, 02:20:35 PM: If the shooter would like to bring an assistant the assistant may attend free.
Title: Re: Our first Wheelchair shooter
Post by: techres on March 14, 2011, 02:24:22 PM: Quote from: yellowhousejake on March 14, 2011, 12:30:24 PM
Also, bring your SB into the discussion as quick as you can so they are involved from the beginning.

He has PM'ed me and looped me in immediately which was perfect. I think we will want to dedicate a BH or IIT to this shooter to help, especially at the beginning to work things out as we adapt. Additionally, I have no problems if the shooter wants to work from the ground or if they want to shoot from the chair.

Techres
Title: Re: Our first Wheelchair shooter
Post by: AZOpie on March 14, 2011, 02:30:04 PM: Quote from: 2 clicks low on March 14, 2011, 12:19:54 PM
If in doubt ask him/her. Give the shooter a call, outline the conditions on the range and ask "what do you need for a safe and fun shoot?" They know best.
2cl

+1 on this. At the Legacy match yesterday we shot on the point next to the M1 for Vets team. One of their shooters was a paralyzed warrior that recieved his wounds overseas. Last month the program awarded him a M1 Garand and he was out shooting it in the match. He built his own transportable shooting table since he could not find one without the seat already built into it. He was a very pleasant person to shoot with and very self sufficient. Bottom line is that your shooter is the best person to determine what, if any, aids are needed.

AZO
Title: Re: Our first Wheelchair shooter
Post by: Chilidog on March 14, 2011, 05:01:05 PM: Great information! I will set up a meeting with the individual and see what they want. I have Applecore already set up to assist him, to keep the IIT's free. This will be an exciting shoot! I will post our progress to show how we accomplish this task.
Thanks!
Chilidog
Title: Re: Our first Wheelchair shooter
Post by: Chilidog on March 14, 2011, 05:10:08 PM: Unbridled liberty gave me this site which was very helpful too.

http://www.nrahq.org/compete/disabledinfo/Disability%20Awareness.pdf
Title: Re: Our first Wheelchair shooter
Post by: R1SGx2 on March 14, 2011, 10:59:47 PM: Was honored to have worked with a two shooters, in both instances, was able to use a shooting bench the chair rolled up to nicely. Shooters were comfortable. With the shooting bench, helped with muzzle direction. A third time placed the shooter on a high range prep table - worked well, different table needed to met needs of chair.

Look forward to this happening, will be great for all involved.

For this I :bow: :bow: :bow: to you guys.
Title: Re: Our first Wheelchair shooter
Post by: franklinfarmer on March 15, 2011, 06:15:50 AM: The advice above to emphasize communication with the shooter before the shoot is no doubt very good.

We have an orange hat in South Carolina who is in a wheelchair and quite physically challenged---due to nerve twitch in his hands, though he has significant strength (enough to lift himself in and out of a pickup). Because of the nerve damage problem, we had him shoot off a bench.

I don't know the condition of your shooter, but it might be easiest to have him shoot off a bench with a stand/sandbag for the rifle. Then he can learn/accomplish the safe rifle aspect of the COF without having to move back (or move the rifle). Thus you can just have him park his chair there and keep his hands down (instead of rolling back and forth) when you clear the line. This would save you the trouble of building a lane with plywood or such things. You could just get him up there and let him stay parked.

Many ranges already have some semi-moveable benches around. This may sound like it takes too much challenge out of the AQT, but you can mention to him that our South Carolina IIT has shot a 249.

TAZDevil may also have some other advice. Of course, as others mentioned, it may depend on your shooter and what he wants. But I doubt it is a good idea to try to have the guy moving his rifle down to the ground, so you'll have to arrange some sort of bench/stand on which to put it anyway, and there is probably no reasonable way to simulate prone or sitting in the chair short of using something like a bench anyway. Conceivably, you could move him into position to shoot offhand, but that will mean having the chair at a large angle of address, which will mean that muzzle control will probably become an issue.

I'm not suggesting it as a general rule, but I think a bench is probably the way to go when you bring a chair with wheels into the mix. I have also seen older shooters sometimes restrict their shooting to a stationary chair, doing essentially all shooting off hand and putting their safe rifle on another chair next to them. This can work for safety, but I've never seen any such shooter come close to shooting a rifleman score. In such a situation, it is also advisable to have a trustworthy IIT dedicated to watching muzzle control on just that shooter.

FF
Title: Re: Our first Wheelchair shooter
Post by: techres on March 15, 2011, 10:02:17 AM: Quote from: franklinfarmer on March 15, 2011, 06:15:50 AM
In such a situation, it is also advisable to have a trustworthy IIT dedicated to watching muzzle control on just that shooter.

And that IIT should know, and the entire team should be reminded, that safety comes first but that the usual noise that comes with an "almost sweep" should be kept to an absolute minimum. In this case a quieter voice and personal care will carry far more weight and use than the student who needs a good barking to remember.
Title: Re: Our first Wheelchair shooter
Post by: Chilidog on March 24, 2011, 11:10:54 PM: Last Sunday I met with our wheelchair shooter. I was pretty nervous about the meeting but I was armed with all the good information I got from you folks. Low and behold it was just as easy as talking to my next door neighbor. I asked questions and he gave me information that allowed us to be of best assistance to him during the shoot. Thanks to you folks here. Turns out he is in a motorized chair. So we measured him to build a bench he could pull up to. My shoot line is made of #11 gravel which is great but it is too soft for his wheels to turn around in without digging in and getting hung up so at the target line, the shoot line and at the equipment line we decided to place a sheet of plywood to give him a solid surface to turn on. I have posted a picture of my range as it is now and will update as we add to it. This shooter lives less than a mile from me and was very happy to find a range so close to shoot at that was willing to adapt to his needs. We are glad to add another shooter to our list of fine patriots.
Title: Re: Our first Wheelchair shooter
Post by: Unbridled Liberty on March 25, 2011, 08:15:43 PM: A big Bravo Zulu to you sir! Looking forward to the AAR.
Title: Re: Our first Wheelchair shooter
Post by: Unbridled Liberty on March 30, 2011, 08:05:09 AM: Just thought of this. Whenever I am working with someone in a power chair, I visually check the status of their control box power switch to confirm that the controls are deactivated. I would advise that everyone working the line be made aware of this switch, its function and location. For safety reasons, I would further advise that the shooter turn the power off while they are shooting. If they forget and leave it on, I would discretely mention it to them, but you should never touch the controls on someones wheelchair yourself. The power switch is usually a toggle located just below the joystick. When the power is on, typically the LED's on the control panel will be lit.
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l481/Unbridled_Liberty/Appleseed/ivcpsfsn8.jpg)
If you are not familiar with the power switch on their chair, just ask them privately to show and explain their controls to you, and take the opportunity to explain that, for safety reasons, you would like them to turn it off before they start shooting.
Title: Re: Our first Wheelchair shooter
Post by: Chilidog on April 01, 2011, 01:28:37 PM: Good idea! I will note this to our SB and staff.
Title: Re: Our first Wheelchair shooter
Post by: Chilidog on April 09, 2011, 11:41:38 PM: Well, I have been busy at work on the range. Here are the pictures of what I did to make the range more wheelchair friendly. I added a pathway of #11s from the equipment line to the target line. I was going to use a sheet of plywood at the target, shooting and equipment lines to give him a solid base to turn around on, but I got to thinking about dragging out those three sheets every time he was going to shoot. Since he is pretty close to the range it might be very frequent. And if they get wet and start to warp that would make it difficult to drive his wheelchair on. So I went down to the local salvage yard, Westside Auto Parts, and found 3 sheets of steel with holes in them and painted with an anti skid coating! Jack pot! If that was not enough the guy in charge gave me a good deal when he found out what I was doing with them. There is 2 benches one for the equipment line and one for the firing line. Both are clamped to the 1/8 steel plates with the orange clamps through the large holes in the steel allowing the benches to be placed securely in just about any location on the steel. They are 30" tall. I can't wait to see it in action.
Title: Re: Our first Wheelchair shooter
Post by: techres on April 10, 2011, 12:38:24 AM: Holy Mollie!

That is awesome!

It is going to be an absolute blast working with you this next weekend...

Great job man,
Techres

(BTW: Planning PM coming tonight)
Title: Re: Our first Wheelchair shooter
Post by: AuntieBellum on April 10, 2011, 11:58:29 AM: Chilidog - You. Are. Awesome. Really, everything you're doing on your range to make things work for this guy is amazing. It actually gives me an idea...hmmm...PM inbound.

Can't wait to check it all out in person. Now, when can I get to Bedford next...hmmm...
Title: Re: Our first Wheelchair shooter
Post by: The Old Guide on April 10, 2011, 07:32:28 PM: Last September we had two wheelchair shooters at Columbia, Maine and in December we had one. I have built a platform for North Country Lady so she can simulate prone. We used it today for the first time and she shot a 47 on the 100 yard offhand target. I'll get some pics at Columbia. She wants to shoot on Wednesday and Thursday. We head for Columbia on Friday, but she may shoot on Friday morning. It's supposed to pour rain here tomorrow.

Another possible first. A blue hat adaptive appleseeder who keeps em in the black.

By the way; She has a spare backup power wheel chair that she loans out.
Title: Re: Our first Wheelchair shooter
Post by: desertrat144 on April 13, 2011, 04:13:35 PM: Chilidog- Awesome bit of engineering and craftsmanship!

And to The Old Guide, please note that the older power chairs do not have most or any of the safety features of the newer models, so make sure that any loaners speeds are set to minus sub-sonic. Personally I do not like all the newfangled safety controls i.e. regenerative braking, slope & speed sensors, &c., but [reluctantly stated] they have their place, especially for someone not familiar with 'em. Please forgive preaching to the choir, but something else to store in the corner of your [and this post's readers] brain pans.

Thanks for everything you all have do to help with Adaptive Shooters.

Tom
Title: Re: Our first Wheelchair shooter
Post by: Chilidog on April 18, 2011, 11:10:12 AM: This weekend our shoot took place and we all had a blast. Saturday was really cold and wet but the steel plates and gravel path worked like a charm. Check the AAR for Bedford 4/16-17 to see the pics. Thank you folks for the great information to make this shoot work great!
Chilidog
Title: Re: Our first Wheelchair shooter
Post by: The Old Guide on April 18, 2011, 10:35:51 PM: North Country Lady did fire at Columbia. She's an effective 300 yard shooter and on the afternoon Redcoat she made the head shot. I need to make a further adjustment to the platform that fastens to her chair.

To make the rifle safe she sets it onto a large plastic tote bin on the ground. She then backs away while an instructor or fellow shooter changes targets. She can't reach the ground to pick a rile up, but she can reach the tote bin. She could change her own target if the ground was dry, but in the middle of April we still have frost in the ground and the grass surface was way too soft for her chair.

The club graciously provided a section of cedar fencing. We put down extra boards perpendicular to the slats and she had a firm dry surface where she could back away from her "grounded" rifle.

If somebody knows how to post photos here, send me a PM with instructions or a link and I'll post some.
Title: Re: Our first Wheelchair shooter
Post by: The Old Guide on April 08, 2012, 10:10:28 PM: We will again have two wheel chair shooters at Columbia this April. I'll put an AAR here.
Title: Re: Our first Wheelchair shooter
Post by: desertrat144 on April 09, 2012, 05:44:01 PM: WOW! to everyone! What is being done for wheelchair accommodation is creative and huge- from decent buys on the plate steel (invite the seller to the AS as guest, it never hurts to have a supplier on tap, and scrapyard guys are creative at DIY), ACW (or earlier) type corduroy stations & pathways, to routines to insure safety of participants w/c bound or not. The idea of powering off electric powered conveyances is also inspired.

This is the stuff that levels the fields for everyone. Thank you for all your efforts!

Tom
Title: Re: Our first Wheelchair shooter
Post by: Nickle on April 09, 2012, 06:12:43 PM: Good stuff.
Title: Re: Our first Wheelchair shooter
Post by: North Country Lady on May 01, 2012, 07:47:29 PM: I live in a wheelchair and find that some ranges are not truly handicapped accessible, even though we may have been told that they are. Two of my problems have been bathroom facilities and access to the clubhouse.

The toilet can be a portable one, but it has to have room enough to get my chair in, and it has to have rails to hold onto.

I always have a fold-able ramp with me, but sometimes you cannot close the door of the clubhouse if the ramp is in place. This necessitates having someone to put it back in place for me to get out of the clubhouse after I have gotten in.

Another problem has been loose gravel. My chair works well on hard ground, but gravel and soft or muddy ground are real problems. Often I have been able to get to the line, but my neighbors have had the responsibility of putting up and retrieving targets for me. You might be surprised at how helpful people can be. They just need to know what you need. The only problem with this arrangement has been the five target for sighting in the rifle. This has been partially solved by having a spare target, so that someone can draw circles that approximate my shots.

At my very first shoot, two pieces of plywood allowed me to shoot and then retreat to the equipment line. We were not very prepared for that shoot, and found that someone had to retrieve my rifle from the ground each time a prep period began. Now I use a plastic bin which I bring with me.

Another problem solved by my husband, The Old Guide, was the creation of a shooting rest that fits on my chair and is secured by the seat belt. Initially, it would slide from side to side when I traveled over rough ground. However, my husband solved that problem by attaching boards on each side. Now the shooting rest works well, and I have a large fanny back that contains my mags, ammo, ears, chamber flag, gloves, and sunglasses. It is fastened to the shooting rest by the strap that normally fastens it to a person, and the shooting rest is large enough so that I can reload mags right on it.

In addition to having Charcot-Marie-Tooth syndrome, I am diabetic. A smaller fanny pack contains my testing supplies and insulin and fastens to my chair. Once again, the shooting rest allows me to check sugar levels right there.

I really appreciate the advice given in this thread regarding asking the disabled shooter what he/she needs. Many times we have the answers, but we don't always. Any and all help is appreciated.

North Country Lady, AppleCore and Instructor Scheduling
Title: Re: Our first Wheelchair shooter
Post by: The Old Guide on August 20, 2012, 12:33:20 AM: North Country Lady fired Rifleman today with a 244 from her chair!.
Title: Re: Our first Wheelchair shooter
Post by: Unbridled Liberty on August 20, 2012, 07:00:15 AM: Congratulations NCL! Well done!

UL
Title: Re: Our first Wheelchair shooter
Post by: Barbie on August 20, 2012, 11:17:56 AM: I believe I still have this in my garage. If it is not needed by anyone in my family, would/could it be of any use to Adaptive Appleseed Program?

- Barbie