the object of this thread is to provide a place for people who have, shoot, or would like to know about uncommon largely not known about,or hard to find ammunition. even share reloading recipies. anything goes here.
Good thread idea! I'm surprised there's been no response so far so I'll try to get the ball rolling.
Not sure if .303 Brit qualifies as sufficiently "uncommon," but I'm soon going to start reloading for one (two, actually). I'm interested in putting together some light loads, for offhand practice at 50-100 yards, using FMJ 7.62x39 bullets. I'm looking for ballistics somewhere between .30 USCarbine and 7.62x39. I'd use cast bullets and go even lighter but one of the barrels has some pitting and I'm concerned about using lead bullets over pits. Anyone got any good starting points?
Lead bullets in a pitted bore are OK.
I suggest using the heavier bullets if you use lead, there's sound reasoning behind that.
That being said, about 125 to 150 grains is definitely doable with lead.
Quote from: Snake45 on December 20, 2007, 02:20:10 PM
Good thread idea! I'm surprised there's been no response so far so I'll try to get the ball rolling.
Not sure if .303 Brit qualifies as sufficiently "uncommon," but I'm soon going to start reloading for one (two, actually). I'm interested in putting together some light loads, for offhand practice at 50-100 yards, using FMJ 7.62x39 bullets. I'm looking for ballistics somewhere between .30 USCarbine and 7.62x39. I'd use cast bullets and go even lighter but one of the barrels has some pitting and I'm concerned about using lead bullets over pits. Anyone got any good starting points?
Have done a few hundred of the 7.62x39 slug/powder charge placed in a boxer primed 303 casing. Accuracy in my experience was not great, 6" at 100 yd sitting using Wolf origin components in a #4 Mk1 with a 5-groove sharp, good barrel. An Enfield (and an SKS, for that matter) will favor heavier bullets due to its rate of twist. Recoil is very mild, and the bullets don't feed reliably from the magazine due to the (for the Enfield) unusually short 7.62 bullet. MkVII Ball in same rifle groups to 3" at 100 yd. This was done when 7.62x39 was $0.10/round, and so I didn't mind the somewhat disappointing result of the experiment.
Two groove Enfield, as with two groove M1903a3, both keyholed cast bullets where bullet weight was 180 grain, velocity was theoretically 1600 fps. The four & five groove barrels are fine with cast bullets.
What's interesting about surplus 303 these days, however, is the fact that it's advertised for $0.15 to $0.18/round; that's really cheap. Hard to find 7.62x39 for less than $0.20/round today, so I'd be inclined to practice with Mk VII ball anyway. It's already fairly low recoil, and is so cheap by today's ammunition standards that you should obtain several cases. If the recoil of MkVII ball is a bit much, you might fill the buttstock trap with lead shot. Don't wait until MK VII gets to $0.50/round like everything else (except CMP M2 ball, hooah!) today to get cases of it.
What's interesting about any surplus ammo that is:
*of decent component quality, i.e. properly stored and capable of 4MOA or better,
*a bargain, i.e. from $0.15 to $0.25/shot delivered,
*component-suitable for use in an MBR or carbine, i.e. won't stress out op rods,
is that you can pull down slugs and powder for your modern autoloader, supplying primers and casings of your own, to make economical ammunition yet of acceptable quality. Consider 7.62x54 and 8x57- Both have generous amounts of propellant, usually decent quality slugs, and low cost. You could barter/sell the 7.62 and 8mm bullets to a pal for 5.56 and 30 cal bullets.
I think you have two good things going with your 303, namely the good price of ball and the powder and slug compatibility with also-cheap 7.62x54. You could download the 7.62x54 to meet your recoil expectations, use a bullet of 150+ grain, AND hopefully get reliable magazine feeding. Then barter/sell the primed 7.62 cases to a pal for something else you need.
Of course sensible and cautious load development is necessary with pull-down ammunition, especially in a Lee-Enfield.
I agree with Francis. You're not going to be able to construct ammunition for a .303 any cheaper than you can buy pull down components or create your own pull down from other compatible diameter bullets; then you've got the value of your time to pull-down and recreate the surplus ammunition. And the spooky factor of not knowing what powder was used, and how that volume of powder relates to the expected powder level for a .303 cartridge.
I say, keep a few hundred rounds on hand and keep familiar with your rifle, but make heavy use of your LTR or other .22 trainer. I would suggest a 1:5 ratio of rounds fired on the centerfire rifle versus that of the .22.
The pitted 303, I would suggest if you are using lead, use one with a
gas check. I have two that are a MUST HANDLOAD. The first is a
30 Gibbs, a blown out short necked (308 Win.)30-06. The second is a .308
case necked to 25 caliber known as a 25 Souper or 25-08.
Not odd but not everyone stocks 22 Hornet, 6mm Remington, British
303, 7x57 Mauser, and 30-30. The rest of the centerfires are 30 calibers,
mostly 30-06 or 308 and a couple two or three .223 rifles. ;D
Well, it's not like I don't have other centerfire rifles to shoot (.30/06, .308, .243, .223, etc.). And for no more cash than I have tied up in the two Enfields, I could afford to hang them on the wall as decorations. I just thought it would be fun to see if I could turn them into very mild trainers. Both also seem to have somewhat generous headspace, and I thought by handloading, after the first firing, I could neck-size and have them headspace on the shoulder like a "real" rifle should.
It's just a hobby project/experiment, not something that I have to do. ;)
it seems that most companies offer a new rifle in these calibers, but don't push these.
.220 swift
.222 Rem
these seem to be a fading 'over the counter' round.
Ax
Ax, after an article in American rifleman, look towards a poor man's
1000 yard .22/6mm wildcat that will spit 90 grain bullets at 4000 fps +
and will be sub MOA. Like the Swift, it can't be kind on barrel life!!!!!
Most likely of the two you mentioned, the .222 Rem. will be the first to
fall thanks to the .223 Rem getting between it and the .222 Rem. Mag.
Crazy part is the hohum, 22 Hornet with new powders like LilGun, now
approaches the 222 Rem and .223 in the light weight bullets with very
low psi of the older fast stuff like 2400 and 110. It also wanders in and
out of obsolete. Due several companies putting out rifles it remains as
an ammo carried foreign and domestic. ;D
Quote from: Snake45 on December 20, 2007, 02:20:10 PM
Good thread idea! I'm surprised there's been no response so far so I'll try to get the ball rolling.
Not sure if .303 Brit qualifies as sufficiently "uncommon," but I'm soon going to start reloading for one (two, actually). I'm interested in putting together some light loads, for offhand practice at 50-100 yards, using FMJ 7.62x39 bullets. I'm looking for ballistics somewhere between .30 USCarbine and 7.62x39. I'd use cast bullets and go even lighter but one of the barrels has some pitting and I'm concerned about using lead bullets over pits. Anyone got any good starting points?
for cast bullets setting up an electro-plating device is very easy, you can even build your own using things you would normally find around your garage. along with a few pennies and some salt water.
What about the 5.7x28 round?
anyone try rechambering a bolt rifle for this round yet?
If so, what rifle did you start with and how did you build the bolt?
[/quote]
Have done a few hundred of the 7.62x39 slug/powder charge placed in a boxer primed 303 casing. Accuracy in my experience was not great, 6" at 100 yd sitting using Wolf origin components in a #4 Mk1 with a 5-groove sharp, good barrel. An Enfield (and an SKS, for that matter) will favor heavier bullets due to its rate of twist. Recoil is very mild, and the bullets don't feed reliably from the magazine due to the (for the Enfield) unusually short 7.62 bullet. MkVII Ball in same rifle groups to 3" at 100 yd. This was done when 7.62x39 was $0.10/round, and so I didn't mind the somewhat disappointing result of the experiment.
[/quote]
sorry to butt in the conversation but, isn't the .303 british round a .311 projectile? That is what I load in mine. I get pretty decent groups with my no4 MK1. That could explain why your groups are suffering. Have you slugged your barrel to find out what the diameter is? I have several books on these rifles and there evidently is a wide variety in bore diameters. I use pulled 174 gr FMJ projectiles from a case of Indian POF .303 that I got "rooked" on and I have had decent luck using IMR 4895 and remington cases.
The nominal 0.001 inch dia. mismatch prob doesn't help, of course. Haven't slugged it; that's somewhat tricky as the lands & grooves are opposed. Measure land height also and subtract from diameter, I suppose. The experiment was driven by curiosity as much as a quest for inexpensive plinking ammo.
Just wasn't as accurate as I'd have wanted, although it was cheap. Same experiment performed by adding 7.62x39 slug and powder to 7.62x54 boxer casing produced similarly disappointing results. No sign of overpressure, but poorer accuracy than with the correct ball ammo, and here the groove sizes should've been ok.
Well, the most economical plinker so far is cast leads with a miserly amount of pistol or shotgun powder. Accuracy seldom disappoints, and economy is excellent. Your SKS will be delighted to shoot 160 grain cast leads.
Snake-
Both the original No.1 Mk 3 SMLE and the No.4 Mk1 Enfield have a separate bolt head by which headspace can be adjusted. Most No.4s which I have seen with excessive headspace were wearing the size "0" bolt head. The number "1" size is fairly common, the number "2" less so, and I have only seen two of the number "3" size.
GPC http://www.e-gunparts.com/dept.asp
Springfield Sporters http://ssporters.com/
and Poppert's http://www.poppertsgunparts.com/index.htm
All list parts (including bolt heads) for both models. And it's a 10 minute fix, including pouring another cup of coffee. You will need a headspace gauge, or test a cross-section of cartridges for rim thicknesses. Use brass from the manufacturor whose cases have the thinnest rims for gauging purposes. There are a few advantages to rimmed cartridges, and headspacing is one of them.
Spatula, yeah, I know all that--I did my homework. ;) My No. 4 came from Century with a #1 bolt head in it, and the No. 5 was bought at a yard sale (cheap!) with no bolt head at all. "The usual suspect" parts sources only list #0s and #1s now but I bought a pair of #2 bolt heads off ebay for something like $40 or $45, not too bad. No one in my area has .303 headspace gauges so I did a "field expedient" of making my own with an empty case, layering on aluminum tape and miking the rim thickness. Yes I know this is not 100% precise but it seems to indicate that I now have both rifles pretty well inside the Field Reject spec and they SHOULD be okay but you can see my interest in wanting to use light loads in them. But as I say, I don't really have all that much money tied up in either of them so if it doesn't work out, I'm not really out all that much.
Scopeboy, plating cast bullets really doesn't stop leading problems of a
rough bore or high velocity. Thicker and harder cooper gas checks will
to a point, as will alloys such as zinc or tin.
As to the question of bore diameter bullets in the Brit. 303, average run
.311 to .312. I have a Sniper that is almost equally accurate with .308
bullets and even a gas checked 180 gr, .308. I use primary 311 however,
and only tried it as a what if, with the .308s, and got surprised.
I do not think those Brit. rifles have head space problems as much as
the action has spring to it and the location of the bolt lugs may contribute
to short case life. Also years ago when I measured US comercial cases,
they were toward the minimum side when compared to Norma and the
British military stuff. Neck sized only, would begin to show signs of head
separation at 4 to 5 loadings. Not available anymore, and I suspect that
Herters brass was made by Norma was also good stuff. Even though it
headspaces on the rim like a 30-30, I suspect actual chambers may vary
a lot. Add that to the spring in the action, the brass gets worked a lot even
when neck sizing only. No clue as to the inside diamentions of FLS dies either.
Quote from: Oohrah on December 20, 2007, 08:26:27 PM
The pitted 303, I would suggest if you are using lead, use one with a
gas check. I have two that are a MUST HANDLOAD. The first is a
30 Gibbs, a blown out short necked (308 Win.)30-06. The second is a .308
case necked to 25 caliber known as a 25 Souper or 25-08.
Not odd but not everyone stocks 22 Hornet, 6mm Remington, British
303, 7x57 Mauser, and 30-30. The rest of the centerfires are 30 calibers,
mostly 30-06 or 308 and a couple two or three .223 rifles. ;D
7x57 Mauser :) 22 hornet ;D i like the way you think, two of my favorite(s) contact nickle he sells and ships ammo. 30-30 's not that hard to find though,
anyone have a line on a odd little cartridge i found loose in my gun case it's a 25-20 ??? looks cool, wanted to know if anyone has info on it?
There's 2 different 25-20's. One is the 25-20 Single Shot, the other 25-20 Repeater.
The 25-20 Single Shot is out of production, and brass is not available. We make very little of it.
The 25-20 Repeater is still in production, Winchester is currently making it, and others may be.
Google "25-20" ammo (or "25-20" brass) and see if you get any hits (I know you will using the search with brass).
I do have a bolt action single shot Mauser in 11.15mmX60R. It's a cute little cavalry carbine in almost new condition. A great brush gun and the first generation of a long line of great bolt action rifles by Mauser.
I only shoot black powder in it with cast lead bullets and use lots of SPG lube.
VAshooter
I have a 1895 Styer straight pull carbine in Austrian 8x50 rimmed. Was all ready to sell it then I found some custom made ammo out of 45-70 brass. This load used regular .323 dia bullets but Hornady custom ammo for 8x56R uses .329 dia. bullets. I can't seem to find load data anywhere. Tommy
There's several sources for data.
http://www.amazon.com/Handloaders-Manual-Cartridge-Conversion/dp/0883172690/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1199369386&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Handloaders-Manual-Cartridge-Conversion/dp/0883172690/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1199369386&sr=8-1)
WARNING, this book is NOT cheap. Expect to pay between $33 and $200 for a copy. I bought a hardcover copy of it new, and the price has about tripled in less than a year.
last time i looked j&g sales had .303 ammo in stock corrosive berdan primed ,cheap tho.
Wade
Anyone have any hands-on experience with the K31 Schmidt Rubin and its 7.5x55 round? Not that I need to add another caliber to the "feed me" inventory, but the rifle intrigues me....
I don't, but I know a bunch of folks that do.
They say the K31 is GREAT. Accurate, too.
Truth be known, it has only one downside.
Ammo isn't real cheap, and not overly available.
Norma makes brass, it isn't cheap (Norma never is), but should last quite some time.
So, for a reloader, the K31 is an OK route to go.
Was wondering how it would hold up under strenuous (read "sodden fields of Flanders") use. I realize that, while a straight-pull, it does not have the breeching system of the ill-fated Ross (another straight-pull). I've handled a couple, but never had the opportunity to fire one. And, as an aside, the mil-spec ammo seems to be back on the market- it's not cheap, but it's not "expensive" anymore, not when compared to current 7.62x51 prices.
The Austrian, French, and German 8mm projectile diameters are inconveniently different. Too bad they're not all 0.323".
Awhile back in the local sporting goods store, asked the clerk to see an M95. As is proper, the clerk attempts to verify the rifle is clear prior to handing it to me. Did everything to that bolt short of pulling it back to open it.
"Hmm, it's jammed," he says with resignation.
"That's a straight-pull; you don't have to rotate the bolt to open it, you just yank it straight back toward you." says I.
CLUNK-SNAP! Well, that worked. Clerk thinks this is the coolest thing ever. "Do these really shoot?"
"Oh yes, as well as the day they were made, and so do all those Enfields, Mausers and Moisins over there. You can buy a rifle, and get a case of ammunition mailed right to your door."
"Now that would be cool."
Then, a trio of high school kids ogling the airguns echo the question, "What! you mean those old rifles really do shoot?"
"Yes they do, and each one of you should have one. You can shoot them at 600 yards right here on the base."
"Why would we even want to?" says they.
This rejoinder stuns me; they amble off in their precariously cinched, XXXL-sized, too-long pants before I could find the words necessary to educate these kids re. their American heritage and duty.
We have so much work to do, folks, to elevate the mentality of our kids.
Two out of five people acting like Americans.
just wanted to thank everyone involved in this thread
when i first created it i had no clue that it would be so quickly, and actively embraced
i posted this msg at around noon and i can almost guarentee it will have been read at least twice before i check the thread today after-school
so thank-you all posters and readers for your vigilance.
also i plan on starting a new thread for shotgun shooters/ reloaders soon too,
with that said i can only hope that is is as readily embraced as this one.
thank you all
-scopeboy001
Quote from: Francis Marion on January 04, 2008, 11:40:03 AM
The Austrian, French, and German 8mm projectile diameters are inconveniently different. Too bad they're not all 0.323".
Awhile back in the local sporting goods store, asked the clerk to see an M95. As is proper, the clerk attempts to verify the rifle is clear prior to handing it to me. Did everything to that bolt short of pulling it back to open it.
"Hmm, it's jammed," he says with resignation.
"That's a straight-pull; you don't have to rotate the bolt to open it, you just yank it straight back toward you." says I.
CLUNK-SNAP! Well, that worked. Clerk thinks this is the coolest thing ever. "Do these really shoot?"
"Oh yes, as well as the day they were made, and so do all those Enfields, Mausers and Moisins over there. You can buy a rifle, and get a case of ammunition mailed right to your door."
"Now that would be cool."
Then, a trio of high school kids ogling the airguns echo the question, "What! you mean those old rifles really do shoot?"
"Yes they do, and each one of you should have one. You can shoot them at 600 yards right here on the base."
"Why would we even want to?" says they.
This rejoinder stuns me; they amble off in their precariously cinched, XXXL-sized, too-long pants before I could find the words necessary to educate these kids re. their American heritage and duty.
We have so much work to do, folks, to elevate the mentality of our kids.
Two out of five people acting like Americans.
sorry frace i know that must have rattled you but i can assure you that not all of us "kids" are like the ones that you encountered, 70-85% of the people that i know in my age group (sophmore HS) would readily embrace the shooting sports if they had the opportunity presented to them. the only thing restraining the kids that you encountered is the fact that they were obviously never really exposed to the shooting sports, the real thing to do is to
EDUCATE THE PARENTS, motivate them and you then expose the children to "our world" of shooting.
Quote from: Spatulaman on January 04, 2008, 02:25:00 AM
Anyone have any hands-on experience with the K31 Schmidt Rubin and its 7.5x55 round? Not that I need to add another caliber to the "feed me" inventory, but the rifle intrigues me....
K31 is a modern, strong, front-locking, well made rifle. The big plus here is that
this European 30 cal is identical to US 30 cal; you can use 0.308 slugs!
I'm happy with my $99, matching serial #, mint bore, accurate K31.
These weapons saw garrison and training duty, and their condition testifies to this. K31's are also the rifle cast-offs of... a nation of riflemen. They're as nice as Swedish Mausers as far as condition, have been cared for by serious shooters, have good triggers, and are accurate.
Brass is available from Norma and a few others now, just shop around online or in SGN. Ball is expensive, yes, but get reloadable brass instead.
Schmidt Rubins are good rifles for people who are willing to reload, or else are so wealthy that they can shoot ball with no worries.
7.5 ball never is cheap, probably never will be.
Select for a rifle with matching serial # bolt & receiver (easy to do, they're usually that way anyhow) - headspace is likely to be good then, and the mechanism will have been fit together, as intended, by the original craftsmen and will be slick, not clunky.
Unlike two M1889 Schmidt Rubins in the family which, for some reason, had their bolts swapped, and then the eventual misfortune of having one rifle stolen. Before the bolt swap, the action was described as working 'smooth as glass.'
Only K31 downside, in my opinion, is the lack of an aperture sight.
Quote from: Francis Marion on January 04, 2008, 12:50:53 PM
Only K31 downside, in my opinion, is the lack of an aperture sight.
check out the MK31MC
http://www.mojosights.com/order.html
kinda the tech sights of the milsurp world
I do not own a K31 but it is high on my wish list. A friend of mine has one and hit the 20" gong at 200 meters every time from standing. I was impressed. We also looked at the cartridge and figured it is like a 308 with 40 degree Ackley improved shoulder and radiused like a Weatherby. I want one bad but must get the M1A first. Tommy
Has anyone tried the 1970's Hirtenberger 6.5x55mm Swede ammo....sportsman's guide is selling it for .48/rnd.
Quote from: bob 210 on January 15, 2008, 01:18:09 AM
Has anyone tried the 1970's Hirtenberger 6.5x55mm Swede ammo....sportsman's guide is selling it for .48/rnd.
Don't know if its the same stuff but I got a bunch of '70 manufactured 6.5x55 from J&G for about this price recently. (Hitenberger is an Austrian manufacturer?)
NC Berdan primed ,steel core and some minor green on the cases. It shoots good in my M96. Oh yeah, I believe that Century sells stripper clips for the Swedes at a good price in bulk.
One word I would add about the Swiss K31. The case need to be full length resized and the chambers are generous. So, the case life is short.
Beautiful rifles but, unproven on the field of battle. The Ross rifle does come to mind.
A great curio/target rifle. Seems it should go far down the list as a WTSHTF tool.
has anyone tried the 577 t-rex? i've seen alot of youtube videos and it looks like a really fun gun to try (once) idk. anyway if u havent seen the videos i recomend that you check them out they are really funny.
Quote from: scopeboy001 on March 18, 2008, 12:35:58 PM
has anyone tried the 577 t-rex? i've seen alot of youtube videos and it looks like a really fun gun to try (once) idk. anyway if u havent seen the videos i recomend that you check them out they are really funny.
Nope, I like my shoulder.
Samco sells military surplus 6.5x55 for $73.80 for 200 rounds and $295.20 for a case of 800 rounds. Their web site is www.samcoglobal.com. I had good luck ordering from them many years ago.
Anyone else out there with a M1895 Dutch Mannlicher in 6.5 Dutch?
I understand that .303 Brit cases can be used to make up ammo to feed this little carbine. Action is smooth as glass.
I have been ordering some ammo from AIM. Was pleased with the customer service.
Max
Quote from: sxsdoublegun on March 29, 2008, 02:28:51 PM
Anyone else out there with a M1895 Dutch Mannlicher in 6.5 Dutch?
I understand that .303 Brit cases can be used to make up ammo to feed this little carbine. Action is smooth as glass.
I have been ordering some ammo from AIM. Was pleased with the customer service.
Max
You can make them from .303 British, you may need to turn the rim to .526".
You can buy Bertram Brass from Graf's (or other sources, like Midway), but it isn't cheap. One of the few available items that is worth making versus buying already made.
If you're doing a LOT of odd stuff, like my father and I, invest in a copy of "The Handloader's Manual of Cartridge Conversions", by Donnelly. Amazon has it available.
Two big thumbs up on "The Handloader's Manual...." Bought my copy 20-some odd years ago when it first came out, and have never once regretted the purchase price. Hours of fascinating reading, including equipment you need, setting up your reloading operation, and much more.
Always remember that the SMLE bolt locks up at the rear, so the casing will stretch with every shot and eventually separate. When I find Boxer .303 brass new, I size it for my 30-40 Krag. I use nothing but milsurp in my SMLEs. A blown case head is never cheap.
i know that i dont buy them too often but, what the hell happened to the price of primers?!!! last i knew they were $20.00 for a brick of 1000 CCI No. 209's
now all of the sudden it's around 32 bucks!! WTF.
I might as well buy surplus an sacrifice the hightened results of handloading.
Yep Scopeboy, had the same sticker shock. Appears maybe hoarding is
also going on. Last month I was going to order 5000 each of large and
small rifle primers. Most were out of stock or per 1000. Windners had
5000 Wolf brand at 84 to 89 bucks. Heard a few bad, but mostly OK to
good about them. Their ammo all goes bang with mostly good reports.
They recommend if using the small rifle primers for semi auto, to be their
Mag primers. They are not hotter, but they are harder. Getting to the
point of what can you afford, gasoline or bullets.
Quote from: scopeboy001 on January 02, 2008, 01:36:10 PM
anyone have a line on a odd little cartridge i found loose in my gun case it's a 25-20 ??? looks cool, wanted to know if anyone has info on it?
Nickle already beat me to the single vs. repeater... My father has my great-grandfather's .25-20WCF lever gun, along with a couple partial boxes of unreliable ammo. It was designed to throw an 86-grain soft- or flat-point bullet around 2000fps, if I recall correctly. Remington and Winchester are still producing factory loads, but it's up around $45-50/box of 50. MUCH cheaper to reload if you want to shoot it. Brass is on a seasonal run from Remington and Winchester, can sometimes be found from Midway or Midsouth, and usually can be found in small quantities on Gunbroker. Bullets are easy; you can find the 86gr pills regularly or can cast lead just fine.
The rifle was originally marketed as a deer rifle, but general consensus was/is that it's just a touch too underpowered to reliably handle whitetails. For small predators and pest control out to 100yd or so, it's a great cartridge - coyotes and woodchucks beware!
The rifles themselves are also getting tough to find; they never really competed with the .30-30 in terms of popularity.
Quote from: Oohrah on June 06, 2008, 12:13:09 AM
... Windners had
5000 Wolf brand at 84 to 89 bucks. Heard a few bad, but mostly OK to
good about them. Their ammo all goes bang with mostly good reports.
They recommend if using the small rifle primers for semi auto, to be their
Mag primers. They are not hotter, but they are harder. Getting to the
point of what can you afford, gasoline or bullets.
Having fired 500 rds of the Widener's Wolf 'magnum' small rifle primers in 5.56, I'm happy with the fit of the primer in the primer pocket in a wide variety of commercial and GI brass, the reliability of the primers, and the accuracy of the assembled ammo (<4MOA).
Not be match grade, but they work, and resultant ammo is accurate enough. I recommend the Wolf product & would buy more.
Quote from: Francis Marion on August 31, 2008, 06:46:15 PM
Quote from: Oohrah on June 06, 2008, 12:13:09 AM
... Windners had
5000 Wolf brand at 84 to 89 bucks. Heard a few bad, but mostly OK to
good about them. Their ammo all goes bang with mostly good reports.
They recommend if using the small rifle primers for semi auto, to be their
Mag primers. They are not hotter, but they are harder. Getting to the
point of what can you afford, gasoline or bullets.
Having fired 500 rds of the Widener's Wolf 'magnum' small rifle primers in 5.56, I'm happy with the fit of the primer in the primer pocket in a wide variety of commercial and GI brass, the reliability of the primers, and the accuracy of the assembled ammo (<4MOA).
Not be match grade, but they work, and resultant ammo is accurate enough. I recommend the Wolf product & would buy more.
Thanks for the review. I previously acquired some of these, but have yet to use them.
How about a handy dandy AR upper (S&W) in 5.45X39? Just picked up two cases (2,160 rnds.) of surplus for $269 shipping and all. Can't beat that even reloading. Don't have to worry about picking up the cases either, just gotta clean it good after shooting 'cause it's supposed to be corrosive.
Shot about 1000 rnds. of corrosive .308 through my M1A at the Feb. 2007 RBC with zero issues due to a good cleaning every evening when the day was done so I'm not scared of corrosive ammo as long as I can take care of the rifle afterwards.
Seems like there was something else I needed to do....Oh yeah, order 2 more cases of that steel cased, berdan primed stuff. This way I shot the AR and save the .223 ammo for some time when I can't clean it after shooting. ;)
Midway has everything you'll need. CCI#34s, #41s, powder, their customer service is superb.
Hoarding? You betcha!!
Local pawn shop had a Steyr M95 in 6.5x53R. Bore looked brand new. Fit like a glove. As someone
who has never reloaded I let it pass. Might still be there. The reload process was something like: get some .303 brass, size it with a .308 Win. die, then neck it with a 6.5 Swede die.
Quoteget some .303 brass, size it with a .308 Win. die, then neck it with a 6.5 Swede die.
Or you could call RCBS and order a set of 6.5x53R Dies and do it on one pass ;D
Does the RCBS 6.5x53R die work with a Lee Loader?
Quote from: AZRedhawk44 on December 20, 2007, 06:56:25 PM
I agree with Francis. You're not going to be able to construct ammunition for a .303 any cheaper than you can buy pull down components or create your own pull down from other compatible diameter bullets; then you've got the value of your time to pull-down and recreate the surplus ammunition. And the spooky factor of not knowing what powder was used, and how that volume of powder relates to the expected powder level for a .303 cartridge.
I say, keep a few hundred rounds on hand and keep familiar with your rifle, but make heavy use of your LTR or other .22 trainer. I would suggest a 1:5 ratio of rounds fired on the centerfire rifle versus that of the .22.
Who has pull down .303 Brit or even good surplus any more? I don't mind the Paki (POF) if it is NOT hangfire ammo but I truly don't like that stuff that hangfires.
Have not seen any quantities of good Mk VII or Mk VIIz in some time. Matter of fact, the last good stuff out there that I remember was the HXP from a few years ago.
Buckshot
Quote from: Francis Marion on January 04, 2008, 12:50:53 PM
Quote from: Spatulaman on January 04, 2008, 02:25:00 AM
Anyone have any hands-on experience with the K31 Schmidt Rubin and its 7.5x55 round? Not that I need to add another caliber to the "feed me" inventory, but the rifle intrigues me....
K31 is a modern, strong, front-locking, well made rifle. The big plus here is that this European 30 cal is identical to US 30 cal; you can use 0.308 slugs!
I'm happy with my $99, matching serial #, mint bore, accurate K31.
These weapons saw garrison and training duty, and their condition testifies to this. K31's are also the rifle cast-offs of... a nation of riflemen. They're as nice as Swedish Mausers as far as condition, have been cared for by serious shooters, have good triggers, and are accurate.
Brass is available from Norma and a few others now, just shop around online or in SGN. Ball is expensive, yes, but get reloadable brass instead.
Schmidt Rubins are good rifles for people who are willing to reload, or else are so wealthy that they can shoot ball with no worries.
7.5 ball never is cheap, probably never will be.
Select for a rifle with matching serial # bolt & receiver (easy to do, they're usually that way anyhow) - headspace is likely to be good then, and the mechanism will have been fit together, as intended, by the original craftsmen and will be slick, not clunky.
Unlike two M1889 Schmidt Rubins in the family which, for some reason, had their bolts swapped, and then the eventual misfortune of having one rifle stolen. Before the bolt swap, the action was described as working 'smooth as glass.'
Only K31 downside, in my opinion, is the lack of an aperture sight.
Francis Marion,
The K31s are good accurate rifles (though the Swiss considered them carbines) but they are rough and crude compared to the previous generation, which consisted of the M1896/11, M1911 (both rifles) and the K-11 (carbine version of the M1911 rifle). The actions on these three are even longer but just as strong and much smoother and in the case of the M1896/11 and M-1911 those 39" barrels just "reach out and touch someone" before the bullet even leaves the bore.
This generation also had the barrel floated in an aluminum collar clamped to the stock at the muzzle that the barrel freely moved through as it heated and expanded in both length and diameter.
Again, nothing wrong with the K-31s but you might equate the M-1896/11, M-1911 and K-11 to a double heat treated US Springfield and the K-31 to an M1903A3. Both work and both from the same family but the feel is gone with the newest one in each case.
Buckshot
Quote from: half_bubble on October 19, 2008, 08:31:47 PM
Does the RCBS 6.5x53R die work with a Lee Loader?
No, Sir.
Lee Loaders are hand tools that remove the primer, neck size the case, seat the new primer, and measure the powder using the supplied tools in the kit and a plastic hammer.
RCBS dies will have to be used with a press - Single-stage, turret, or progressive.
However, the RCBS dies will work with a Lee Hand Press which is a single-stage press that you don't have to mount and can use at the kitchen table.
Quote from: Nickle on March 29, 2008, 08:13:50 PM
Quote from: sxsdoublegun on March 29, 2008, 02:28:51 PM
Anyone else out there with a M1895 Dutch Mannlicher in 6.5 Dutch?
I understand that .303 Brit cases can be used to make up ammo to feed this little carbine. Action is smooth as glass.
I have been ordering some ammo from AIM. Was pleased with the customer service.
Max
You can make them from .303 British, you may need to turn the rim to .526".
You can buy Bertram Brass from Graf's (or other sources, like Midway), but it isn't cheap. One of the few available items that is worth making versus buying already made.
If you're doing a LOT of odd stuff, like my father and I, invest in a copy of "The Handloader's Manual of Cartridge Conversions", by Donnelly. Amazon has it available.
Nickle,
Have you ever got hold of a cartridge conversion manual from George C. Nonte? Not as extensive as Donnelly's but rather interesting.
Buckshot
Probably got one over at the shop.
I do have a personal copy of Nonte's Reloading Manual (techniques much more than data).
A "must read" for any reloading cast bullets in a military autoloader.
Quote from: Nickle on October 19, 2008, 10:15:18 PM
Probably got one over at the shop.
I do have a personal copy of Nonte's Reloading Manual (techniques much more than data).
A "must read" for any reloading cast bullets in a military autoloader.
Nickle,
Now you've gone and done it, something else I am going to have to look for and invest in.
I have his cartridge conversion manual and his book "Pistolsmithing" but did not know that he had had a reloading manual out.
;)
Buckshot
Quote from: Buckshot on October 20, 2008, 10:04:17 PM
Quote from: Nickle on October 19, 2008, 10:15:18 PM
Probably got one over at the shop.
I do have a personal copy of Nonte's Reloading Manual (techniques much more than data).
A "must read" for any reloading cast bullets in a military autoloader.
Nickle,
Now you've gone and done it, something else I am going to have to look for and invest in.
I have his cartridge conversion manual and his book "Pistolsmithing" but did not know that he had had a reloading manual out.
;)
Buckshot
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0876910460/ From $1.94 and up, most of the mfor $3.99 shipping. DIRT CHEAP, and an asset for just the chapter on reloading for military semi-sutos alone.
I own 3 rifles chambered for Winchester 22 mag and absolutely Love the Hornady V-max ammo. All my 22 mag rifles really like the stuff and make nice ragged little holes with it. I'm real glad I bought the Ruger when I did 'cause they don't make it anymore. I've been getting bulk from Cabellas for about $10 per 50 rounds and get the dry storage box with it. Anyone else shoot 22 mag?
Quote from: biathlon on October 24, 2008, 05:54:35 PM
I own 3 rifles chambered for Winchester 22 mag and absolutely Love the Hornady V-max ammo. All my 22 mag rifles really like the stuff and make nice ragged little holes with it. I'm real glad I bought the Ruger when I did 'cause they don't make it anymore. I've been getting bulk from Cabellas for about $10 per 50 rounds and get the dry storage box with it. Anyone else shoot 22 mag?
i do, i own one 22mag rifle and right now it is my go-to gun for varmit controll under 200yrds.
and just like urs, mine loves the V-max ammo, @ 100yrds, all my holes just about touch.
Had one in Mossberg Chuckster, but traded it off before the Vmax came out.
However, a Ruger 77/22 Hornet using the 35 grain Vmax is twice as accurate
and really cheap to reload using Lil Gun powder. It has very low chamber
pressures at somewhere over 3000 fps with 13 grains of this powder. Very
quiet and accurate at very little cost :~ In fact les than the 22 WRM.