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Kemmerer Appleseed After action

Started by risky buisness, September 24, 2007, 01:48:36 AM

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risky buisness

Well were all done here, 4 beat down instructor canadates and 1 master finally got it done, we did not have 40 or 50 shooters, we had 15, and out of that we had 50% qualify rifleman and one young lady fired a 190 with a bolt operated pink cricket .22 rifle, not too bad all considered. we had several shooters come in Sunday only to fire great scores after a lot of personal attention and generated interest in our next years program. So all in all were a big success, this did not come without a price, aches pains and raw spots on elbows and knees and the time away from familly and work, plus the expense for gear ammo and gas, big deal. There is not a man who was involved with this boot camp who would have it differently.
We found several interesting things: shooters are scared of the NPOA ' shut your eyes drill' star target, shooters who have an ego issue waste time better spent on helping students who want to shoot accuratly and that I need to upgrade my computer skills to include adding photos to a post, that should happen here pretty soon.
Were looking real hard at doing another Boot Camp and Appleseed for next year right here in sunny Kemmerer, just a little earlier in the summer so as to miss hunting season and high school football start up.
we will visit again, hopefully I can get some photos posted--risky
Risky Buisness, Rifleman and worlds fastest single shot M1 Garand operator

Fred


    risky, something must have happened to your post, as I understand it was to be three or four BIG paragraphs... ;D

    I think that pink cricket record should be posted somewhere so we can see if anyone else can beat it - sounds like fun!

    Your BC and the KY Instructor Camp during the same time period are two lighthouses in the fall Appleseed progam.

    Gives us a much-needed boost when we need it - now we have to find "Appleseed firing lines" to provide opportunities to put those new instructors to work.

    Can you be thinking about at least a couple of Appleseeds next year - specific dates, for the 2008 calendar? - up to three will be fine. ;)
"Ready to eat dirt and sweat bore solvent?" - Ask me how to become an RWVA volunteer!

      "...but he that stands it now, deserves the thanks of man and woman alike..."   Paine

     "If you can read this without a silly British accent, thank a Revolutionary War veteran" - Anon.

     "We have it in our power to begin the world over again" - Thomas Paine

     What about it, do-nothings? You heard the man, jump on in...

Grin Reaper

4 new Instructors & 7-8 Riflemen? -- quality trumps quantity!
"There's gotta be a few umlauts laying around somewhere." JB

risky buisness

Hey Grin, I want you to remember that one of the shooters, a very small girl shot a single shot pink cricket to the tune of 190. If a little  girl can take the information and go with the coaching and shoot that well, ANYBODY can.
First step, leave any EGO or preconcieved ideas behind, want to learn to accuratily fire a rifle, I know we had several wannabees peeking around who more than likely said " I dont need that kind of krap I'M a a shooting fool". All thru the boot camp we remarked that the entirety of the shooters who came to the range to fire a rifle went directly to the bench side of the range and shot there, this was in preperation for deer or elk season when curiously, better groups were being fired by slung up shooters 70 yds away.
My fellow instructor 'Pat' and I have developed a stratigy to get these bench warmers interested and we will comence with it after hunting season. On a chalenge type invatation wer'e going to get some "D" targets, set them out at measured range and see if anyone can accuratly fire one shot into the vital size area, say a 14 inch circle inside the 'D' target, no bench no lazer no bipod, no excuses, By doing an invitation type shoot we can get the target audience we want, we can control the whole experience start to stop, and then pitch the program. With Mini Appleseeds thrown in to back it up, open  then to everyone we can then let everyone in on the secret and with any luck get more guys and famillys and there friends envolved too. Any one with experience in there area attracting new shooters is invites to post or PM me with ANY ideas regarding this---risky
Risky Buisness, Rifleman and worlds fastest single shot M1 Garand operator

raf

Quote from: risky buisness on September 25, 2007, 01:49:05 PM
Hey Grin, I want you to remember that one of the shooters, a very small girl shot a single shot pink cricket to the tune of 190. If a little  girl can take the information and go with the coaching and shoot that well, ANYBODY can.
First step, leave any EGO or preconcieved ideas behind, want to learn to accuratily fire a rifle, I know we had several wannabees peeking around who more than likely said " I dont need that kind of krap I'M a a shooting fool". All thru the boot camp we remarked that the entirety of the shooters who came to the range to fire a rifle went directly to the bench side of the range and shot there, this was in preperation for deer or elk season when curiously, better groups were being fired by slung up shooters 70 yds away.
My fellow instructor 'Pat' and I have developed a stratigy to get these bench warmers interested and we will comence with it after hunting season. On a chalenge type invatation wer'e going to get some "D" targets, set them out at measured range and see if anyone can accuratly fire one shot into the vital size area, say a 14 inch circle inside the 'D' target, no bench no lazer no bipod, no excuses, By doing an invitation type shoot we can get the target audience we want, we can control the whole experience start to stop, and then pitch the program. With Mini Appleseeds thrown in to back it up, open  then to everyone we can then let everyone in on the secret and with any luck get more guys and famillys and there friends envolved too. Any one with experience in there area attracting new shooters is invites to post or PM me with ANY ideas regarding this---risky

I have seen similar situations.  I think, as a stranger on 'their" range, you might want to approach this carefully.

What I do, with some small success, is hang around till he (they) take a break.  I chat 'em up, and ask to try my l'il .22 at, say, 25M.  After all, it's a .22, right?  I sling up, go to prone and fire a group.  Now, if I'm just a little lucky, all the shots will cover a quarter, maybe less.  Maybe a good deal less.  I casually let them see the target, and mention that with that group, say 4 MOA, I might expect to take an elk with an 8" strike area at 200 yds.  If my group is better than 4 MOA, I adjust the figure.  All this is done very casually, with no hint of bragging.  I will probably mention that "Ya know, that Appleseed shootin' clinic I went to a while back sure made a difference in my shootin'."  And leave it at that unless they ask questions.  Lots of times they do, and I give 'em answers and write down web addresses.  No challenge, no dares, just an understated example.  No over-selling, either.  People are like spaghetti;  you can pull them by leadership and example, but pushing them isn't worthwhile.

colonial shooter

Quote from: raf on September 25, 2007, 02:13:46 PM

I have seen similar situations.  I think, as a stranger on 'their" range, you might want to approach this carefully.




Raf this isn't the case here. Pat and Risky business are the Pres and VP of this club. They are haveing to deal with the good ol boys there.
"When the government fears the people there is liberty; when the people fear the government there is tyranny." --Thomas Jefferson

Only the dead have seen the end of war
Plato

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana

Fred


    Still and all, BOTH approaches seem to me to have considerable merit.

    rb's is a good one because anyone who shows up for the challenge is by definition prime meat (;D).

    raf's is extremely good for dealing with people you run into casually at the range... (at least, it seems to me...)

    In fact, for dealing with people you run into casually, anywhere - in which case you go the 'gentle' route.

    I'd like to see a challenge - if we can come up with some tests of each approach - to see which is more efficient.

    Would make the whole exercise more fun, when there's a challenge.
"Ready to eat dirt and sweat bore solvent?" - Ask me how to become an RWVA volunteer!

      "...but he that stands it now, deserves the thanks of man and woman alike..."   Paine

     "If you can read this without a silly British accent, thank a Revolutionary War veteran" - Anon.

     "We have it in our power to begin the world over again" - Thomas Paine

     What about it, do-nothings? You heard the man, jump on in...

rgrosz

There is not one way to react to everything and everybody. And the approch someone uses maybe different than mine, but if it works would be just as right as  the one I use that works also.  :P  :o

Rob

risky buisness

Well Fred, we will get back to ya on this as we are planning it currently, we talked about stacking the deck in our favor and some other simmilar tactics, but allowed that without a bench, bipod, lazer beam, gps, satelite locater or magic 8 ball, Im' pretty much betting that most of these the guys will come up short, literally, oh but wait, here it is, right in the guide 'sights as range finding aids' oh but whats an MOA? Ah, were having a Mini Appleseed this weekend----- see how easy this could be? geeze my buddie Pat sure is sneaky. Keep you posted.
Risky Buisness, Rifleman and worlds fastest single shot M1 Garand operator

The Guy

Moving this to the AAR board, but before I do.....

Risky, Pat, Horn and Newman are our newest WY Instructors!  Congrats!

They did quite well all week, and did so well at the Appleseed that all I did was the History and sat in a chair.

Once again, the people involved were GREAT!  Everyone I met was friendly, and more than happy to have us there.  Was nice to see Colonial again, and meet Bob 210 for commiefornia who dropped in for the week.

Now that we have 2 Instructors in that socialist state, I expect great things from there.....

But I degress.

Appleseed in Wyoming and the rest of the west is alive and well, and anywhere that a lil' girl with a single shot can hit in the 190's is a happy place indeed.

We had all sorts of fun, from trying to teach Newman poker ("I raise you a quarter" is his newest saying) to shooting clays (what was that tan streak that hit that bird anyway?!?!), to stareing at the resident deer on the range that didn't flinch from rifles or shotguns (NO HUNTING ON THE RANGE!) or the cyotes and wolves in the distance (NEW RULE, SHOOT 'EM, SHUT YER TRAP, AND START DIGGING!).

I can't wait to go back.

Thanks to the 4 new Instructors, and to Bob210 and Colonial, and to Rev Keith (Perseverance award here!) for making my LONG BOREING TRIP worth while.

Guy


ps, want to know what "You all will never belive what I found in my rifle last night" means or what the new "unnoficial" RBC motto is?

Gotto go to one yourself!

Fred


     I'm sure that Guy heard "NEW RULE, SHOOT 'EM, SHUT YER TRAP, AND START DIGGING!" - like most of us have, even those of us out east who's never seen a coyote or wolf.

     It's kinda a joke amongst gun owners, hunters, and westerners - but I doubt many who have the opportunity actually do it, as it would make them felons.

     And I bet The Guy (I am sure) does not mean to imply, suggest, or advocate that anyone reading his comments commit a felony by engaging in such conduct.

     
"Ready to eat dirt and sweat bore solvent?" - Ask me how to become an RWVA volunteer!

      "...but he that stands it now, deserves the thanks of man and woman alike..."   Paine

     "If you can read this without a silly British accent, thank a Revolutionary War veteran" - Anon.

     "We have it in our power to begin the world over again" - Thomas Paine

     What about it, do-nothings? You heard the man, jump on in...

Newman

Hey folks,
It's allready Wendsday, and I felt It was time to post about the boot camp/Appleseed. (not because I was threatened with violence by Guy)
Well, I have come a long way from a 46 on the QD AQT (yes really) and having my front sight fall off right in front of Fred on the full distance.

To save time I hought I would summerize everthing that I leaned:
1. Tent + Frost = Suck
2. Kommifornia and Illinoise both seem to suck.
3. Bill Ruger is burning in hell.
4. You can load a shotgun shell with pinto beans and feathers.
5. Cuban "Monta Cristo" cigars are better than the ones at the gas station. (trust me on this)
6. I am so bad at poker, other players lose thier sense of reality.
7. A ten year old girl with a PINK $89  bolt act. .22 listens better than a 40 year old man with a $4,000 .223
8. Antelope turds are hell on Garand actions.
9. I really like to use my "instructor voice". A lot. Often.
10. In Wyoming, we need one instructor for every two students. Not to teach, just to stand on shooting mats so they don't blow away.
11. At 4:00 AM, It seems like a good idea to burn a BIG box of matches to get the heat fire going again.
12. It takes a team of physicists and enginers to release the bolt on a 10-22. Damn you Bill Ruger! DAMN YOU!!

And Finaly:
13. Helping the kids make rifleman was one of the most rewarding things I have ever done.

God Blese
Wyoming Boot Camp Motto: "Antelope turds are hell on Garand actions!"

Nickle

Quote from: Fred on September 26, 2007, 06:03:57 PM

     I'm sure that Guy heard "NEW RULE, SHOOT 'EM, SHUT YER TRAP, AND START DIGGING!" - like most of us have, even those of us out east who's never seen a coyote or wolf.

     It's kinda a joke amongst gun owners, hunters, and westerners - but I doubt many who have the opportunity actually do it, as it would make them felons.

     And I bet The Guy (I am sure) does not mean to imply, suggest, or advocate that anyone reading his comments commit a felony by engaging in such conduct.

     

I'm about as East as it gets, and we have coyotes, a LOT of them. I think a couple of students at Proctor were into coyote and woodchuck shooting. I'm about 100% sure Lee, the guy with the 77/22, that shot FASTER than some of the 10/22's, and shot a serious Rifleman shoots coyotes. He's a farmer. IIRC, and he HAS to.

We just shoot them and leave them there. We don't HAVE to keep our mouths shut, and we usually just "leave them for the crows". We even have an annual Coyote Hunt every winter. No closed season on them, and no bag limit. Used to be a bounty on them.

Gabe, Bill redeemed himself by making the 10/22. One of the best things they've made. Damned Ruger lawyers ought to burn in hell, though. After thye bolt release is fixed, and the trigger pull cut in half (or thirds), they're a pretty good rifle.
They have men amongst them who know very well what they are about, having been employed as Rangers against the Indians and Canadians and this country being much covered with wood, and hilly, is very advantageous for their method of fighting. . . . ".  Lord Percy

Sounds like New Englanders to me.

The Guy

-snort-

If I hada, I wouldn'ta.



gabe?  Who is gabe?  That there is Newman, born again hard.

I break them down and then build them up, and Newman here has passed with flying colors.

Wonder what mom and dad think of him NOW!

Guy

Old Dog

I have a lot of rugers.  All fine guns.  Stop listening to BS and buy one (or more) of the guns and use it.  IF you still think rugers are bad buy a Colt (if you can find one at a reasonable price) or a S&W (not the semi autos - anybody that changes gun designs every 5 or 6 years is admitting to their problems).  You wouldn't believe where I've carried my bobbed hammer, snub nosed, SS speed six and it looks great and shoots as good as it looks.

I wonder if the guy is talking about wolves, not coyotes?  Most states, even here in the east, have coyote seasons or consider them varmints and allow them to be hunted (within the game laws).  Wolves are still protected.

Frost on the outside of the tent beats frost on the inside of the tent hands down.

Illinois redeeming point is big ring neck pheasants that get up and fly in a straight line (unlike mountain grow ruffed grouse).

If you can sneak up close enough for an antelope to take a dump on your M1 you don't need it, just tie him up and slit his throat.

One of these days I'm gonna get me some good shooting glasses (so I can see the front sight and the target) and try an AQT with one of my revolvers.

"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

—Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

Nickle

Quote from: M1A4ME on September 26, 2007, 09:05:49 PM

Illinois redeeming point is big ring neck pheasants that get up and fly in a straight line (unlike mountain grow ruffed grouse).


And no stinking AWB.
They have men amongst them who know very well what they are about, having been employed as Rangers against the Indians and Canadians and this country being much covered with wood, and hilly, is very advantageous for their method of fighting. . . . ".  Lord Percy

Sounds like New Englanders to me.

Grin Reaper

Has anyone seen the Kemmerer AAR thread?
I heard it's in here someplace.....

QuoteHey Grin, I want you to remember that one of the shooters, a very small girl shot a single shot pink cricket to the tune of 190.
But was it a tactical cricket?

QuoteAntelope turds are hell on Garand actions.
Next bumper sticker?

Come join us in Hinesville in the spring, we'll see what armadillo poop will do to one.
"There's gotta be a few umlauts laying around somewhere." JB

The Guy

That must be why we outlawed sterioids.

Any 10 yr old girl that can lug that....thing....around I shall stear clear of! :o

LOL