Ramseur NC, 3 day event May 23rd - 25th

[Longsnowsm]

This was my first Appleseed this weekend.  After discovering this program on survivalblog.com, asking questions on some rifle forums, and trying to prepare as much as possible with a hectic workaholic schedule we went to Ramseur NC for our first Appleseed.  I took my two sons with me.  I had heard that Ramseur was the Mecca of Appleseed so I thought we should take the drive down from Maryland to go and see for ourselves. 

I grew up around guns, but was never much of a gun guy myself.  I was in the Air Force, but the only time I ever had to deal with a rifle was in basic training... So basically I am a novice when it comes to rifles.  I was nervous about trying something like an Appleseed, but everything I read sounded like this would be the place to introduce my sons to some proper instruction and training with a rifle. 

So how did is turnout?  Well I can say that Ramseur is a very nice location.  The range was excellent.  Facilities excellent.  Everything that the shooter needs to get on the line and shoot is there.  My hats off to all of the instructors and volunteers that conducted this Appleseed.  They bought a great deal of experience, patience, and stern reinforcement when needed.  I cannot say enough good things about the people that put this program together.  Oh, and we got to meet "The Fred" that everyone keeps talking about!  Fred is great, and the stories and history we learned are just enough to wet the appetite for more.

The outline for how things went this weekend.  We arrived a little early, registered at the desk, met the volunteers and staff.  They instructed us to get our gear and place it on the line and setup our stuff in preparation for the shooting.  However we are instructed to leave our rifles in the vehicles until instructed to get them.  This is important.  Don't ever handle or move a firearm on the range or to and from the vehicles unless you have someone from the staff assist and people are aware of what is going on. 

We learned some brief history about the Appleseed program, we went over handouts that we were given about the 6 steps to the shot, the range safety rules, and went over the outline of how the day was going to proceed.  We heard the story about April 19, 1775 and how the events began to unfold that sparked the Revolutionary War.  This session is called the first strike of the match.  You will hear about 3 strikes of the match and how the events happened, and how it reinforces why the Appleseed program is so critically important today.

WARNING: Appleseed is like drinking from a firehose!  Your going to get a ton of information, it is going to come at you fast.  If you can take the time to read some of the materials and practice some of the shooting positions before you come it would be helpful.  Then you can focus on the details of the instruction instead of trying to grasp the outlines in the initial phases of instruction.

You will get your first chance to shoot soon enough, and the first targets on the range are called red coats.  You will get to shoot these with no instruction other than the safety rules to ensure everyone is safe and knows the line commands.  You will get to see what your level of proficiency is with this first target and just how you stack up before instruction.  This is not a competition, but simply for your own benefit so that you know at what distances you are currently proficient with your rifle.  I felt this was important to see for myself, and good to keep in the back of your mind as your learning throughout the training.  Your shooting will improve and it is easy to get frustrated, so if you doubt yourself pull out that first target and just try to laugh and shake it off.

You will go through many courses(rounds) of fire as they add the next step to the shooting steps so you can see how your shots start to come together and group.  You will be introduced to the rifle sling.  Guess what?  That sling isn't meant to just carry your rifle around.  It is a critical shooting tool!  You will start off they will tell you the first step to shooting the shot, then you go shoot, then the second step, and you add that to your steps and go shoot etc.  So you can see the benefits of each step as it is added to your shooting steps.  You will hear the 6 steps to firing the shot over and over... You will be asked to repeat them, or tell what each step is.  Now the fun part is remembering and putting them together when your behind that rifle!       

We then progressed to from the prone position to the sitting position, and then to the standing position.  The demonstrations by the instructors are excellent.  They really help understand what your suppose to be doing.  Once the 3 positions are covered, we are introduced to the Army Qualification Test or AQT.  We are instructed on how the AQT is run, and then we practiced the various scenarios to the AQT Test.  Once everyone was familiar with how this test works the AQT shooting begins.  These are timed sequences that start with the first round of shooting is done standing.  The second round was done where you start in a standing position, and then drop into a sitting position and shoot.  Third round of shooting was done again starting in a standing position and dropping to a prone position.  The last round of shooting for the AQT is don all prone.  I won't get into any more specifics than that.  Once you see it you will understand the sequence and the method to the AQT process.

The second day of the event many of the same concepts were repeated, more history, review of the 6 steps to firing the shot, more range safety, some great stories that added to the instruction and inspired better shooting.  We had new demonstrations by instructors, more about how these concepts work.  Then we did a lot of shooting and more AQT testing.

The third day of the training we spend a lot of time going back over the basics with a timing element to the training.  I thought this instruction was really good.  We covered the riflemans cadence, and reinforced front sight focus and NPOA.  Then we worked into the AQT drills and tests.  We had to leave early as we had a long drive home.  So I don't know what the final count was for the number of people who scored rifleman.

NOTES:  Things I learned this weekend.  This is a lot harder than I expected.  I guess reading so many things it starts to sound like anyone can just show up on a weekend and shoot a Rifleman score.  If that is you, and you were able to do that, then my hat is off to you! 

1. First don't buy new equipment and then not get a chance to shoot it before your Appleseed.  Get your gear, find a range, and go out and make sure things work.  If something doesn't seem right, then get it fixed before you get to Appleseed.  I let work get in the way of my final preparations and we didn't get to check out our weapons or zero them before we arrived.  We had some issues.  This is no time to be fighting with your rifle on the line when time is critical.  Your rifle has to work.  My standard Ruger magazines would not eject at all, they were fine if you just slap in the mag and hit the eject, but if you cycle a round the mag would become wedged.  I had to keep prying them out with my fingers wasting lots of precious time and pegging my stress meter off the charts.  Just didn't work at all.  One of my sons weapons the front sight managed to fall off and was pretty regularly firing off doubles or triples with one trigger squeeze.  A good cleaning fixed his doubles issue, and the staff helped him reattach the front sight and zero the weapon again.  Fortunately they had a spare weapon he could shoot while they assisted us with his sights issue.  So make sure your stuff works before you get to Appleseed.  All our issues could have been easily addressed before coming if I had taken the time off to go out and shoot these rifles.  There simply isn't much time to address these problems when your at the event.

2. Bring a backup rifle.  In the event of a problem have a fallback rifle you can use that has also been tested, and zero'ed in before the shoot.

3.  Physical conditioning.  I am a middle aged computer guy that sits behind a desk all day for far too many hours in a day so my physical conditioning was not up to par.  This is tougher than it would appear.  My sons are 19 and 21 years old and by the end of the day even they are worn out so you can imagine how I felt by the end of the day!  It would be good to learn the shooting positions and get used to stretching out so that your comfortable in the shooting positions.  The instructors will work around your disabilities if your unable to perform the tasks that they teach, but try to prepare as much as possible to build up your strength, flexibility, and endurance.   When I go back to my next Appleseed I will be better prepared.

4. Bring a teachable attitude.  Bad habits die hard.  In the rush to get into position, and remember the steps to firing the shot it is too easy to forget steps.  I think this is a matter of practicing the steps and drilling it into muscle memory for me personally so that I am not spending so much time scrambling to find my Natural Point Of Aim(NPOA).  You really have to remember the steps, and not get your feathers ruffled if someone has to keep telling you to do something.  Such as keep your finger ON THE TRIGGER! Each time I was told to do something and I adjusted like I was told it works!  Then the next round of firing I would somehow manage to forget again in the rush to put together the steps to firing the shot. 

5. This is not easy.  Most of the people that earned Rifleman this weekend have been to multiple Appleseeds and have been practicing in between events.  Most folks won't just show up to a single weekend event and shoot Rifleman.  Persistence, patience, and practice appear to the the rule of thumb.  So just come and be prepared to learn so much that it is hard to describe.

6. Frustration.  It is very easy to get frustrated.  After the first day out my sons and I were both very frustrated.    I think we were hesitant going out for the second day as it was so overwhelming and didn't feel like things were going like you would hope.  Thankfully we persisted and the second day was better, same with the 3rd day.  Each day our shooting improved, and each time on the line was a learning experience, and the coaching sessions really helped if you can hold those things in your mind in the rush of the timed drills.

7. Optics:  No not the kind you attach to the top of your rifle.  I am talking about the kind that sit on your nose.  If you wear glasses then it would have been helpful to have a strap to help secure my glasses to keep them in place.  I found my glasses sliding down and then I couldn't see.  The time it takes to reach up and adjust your glasses, and then readjust your position for the shot is precious.  So if you wear glasses consider a method for ensuring your glasses stay in place.  If your a middle aged or older shooter our eye sight isn't what it once was so I found this problem quite frustrating. 

8. Persistence.  Keep pressing on and keep working at it.  No matter how frustrating, or hard it might seem just keep pressing on and working at it.  While I didn't get to the point that my steps just gelled into some magical synergy on the line for me I can see that when I do put together a good sequence of shots that the steps work, the proper sling works, that the proper shooting position works.  So just keep working at it.  I know I am glad I did, but I am sure I drove the instructors crazy! 

9. Pain:  The positions and sling are painful!  The positions are not comfortable when you first try them, and the sling is painful.  It is tight up on on your tricep and causes your arm to go numb, bruises, and is painful.  Strangely enough this too becomes more manageable each day at the event.  The numbness part never goes away, but the pain issues seemed to have diminished.  I guess time will tell when practicing dry firing if the painful portion of this process goes away.  

Summary: Would I do it again?  Yep, I am planning on attending one or possibly 2 more events this year. My sons both say they want to go again.  My youngest is talking about a Bootcamp to get into the instructor pipeline.  A dad couldn't be prouder of them.  So this is hard, but it is worth it.  The history lesson was a good taste of our past and once I arrived home I ordered some books and videos on the Revolutionary War.  Tell your friends about Appleseed.  If your thinking about going to an Appleseed do your homework, and try to prepare.  It will make the process maybe a little easier, but the fire hose is still quite large!  Our next Appleseed we will be attending will be in Ramah Colorado.  Hope to see you there!   

[Fred]

What we may obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: 't is dearness only that gives everything its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods.

    Which is no doubt why Heaven made it so tough to become a Rifleman in one weekend...

    There's so much good advice here, I hope we can figure out a way to keep it from becoming 'buried' on the forum.

    A lot of it is contained in a .pdf called "Do Your Homework" you can download, which you will find at http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=101.0

    Longsnow, I am glad you and the sons decided to come back.

    It's so easy on Sunday morning, every muscle and joint aching, to NOT get out of bed for a second day of fatigue.

    Takes special people to do it.

    We call 'em, "Americans".

     

[ScopeBite]

Briefly...My son and I attended this Appleseed, and came away ready to start the next one!  At first, (like Longsnowsm) we were ready to call it a week-end after Saturday's class.  To make the long story short (I'm still "jaw-jacking" about it at home and the office!)  we had a series of unfortunate events.  One of those resulted in my choice of screen names.  Yep, I'm the one with the Scope Bite on my forehead.  Anyway, we talked Saturday night as we cleaned weapons and decided that my son would use our 10-22, and we'd keep his 7.62x54 canon in the car.  As a result, Sunday and Monday, all I was able to do was absorb everything I could from the lectures.  This left me chomping at the bit when my son became so frustrated by lunchtime Monday that he decided to sit out a round.  When I got my chance on the line, I did my utmost to shoot "by the numbers".  As a result, my first real chance to try my new 'learnin' got me a fairly nice grouping!  My son came back after lunch, and I could see that a fire had been lit somewhere inside him.  He was so deep in the shooters bubble...and I was so proud of him...I sat back and watched as he killed targets.  He scored a 161 on the AQT...not rifleman yet, but a HUGE improvement over where he started.  We had a great Father and Son week-end!

I've got more guns to buy before our next Appleseed, because I'm sure there WILL be another in my future!  Look out AQT, here I come!

Many, many thanks to the instructors for all the help and patience!   I can't say enough good things about the whole crew!

BTW, Those of you across the US who haven't had the chance to meet Fred are sure missing something.  His talks and encouragement really made me think...

[CaptainEd]

Barbara and I had a GREAT time! This is real deal!

Yes we were frustrated and I second and third the part about showing up knowing your rifle and having it zeroed. What I mean is really know your rifle, work out all the kinks and have it zeroed. Get a sling and know how to use it. Ha, but you'll learn. Just like we did. We came with three new rifles and my old stand by and all except the old stand by had just cursory zeros and hadn't had enough rounds through them to know what was up. Naturally Murphys law came into play and the proverbial excrement hit the fan. Two things happened. The instructors shifted gears and pulled together and worked to get another rifleman to the line (though not qualified yet, Barbara will be before summer is over as will I), and even though the thought crossed my mind I didn't even seriously even consider doing anything else that day or the next or the last day. I walked through three rifles in three days with multiple problems. But as I can tell you after 34 years at sea, excuses aren't worth the paper they are printed on. Everyone including myself has one for something, the key is to focus on the problem and solve it. Everyone is committed to your improvement and success.  You can waste a lot of time "jaw-jacking" about the issues or git er done.

Yes, absolutely you are fed the instruction with a fire hose. My suggestion is you spend the time before you arrive prepping beforehand having read and re-read Fred's book, zeroing your rifle and making sure you have all your gear together, Get a sling and learn how to use it. All the suggestions on this blog need to be empathized and underlined.

This is prime learning time, don't waste it. The part about teachable attitude is absolutely the truth and essential if you are to succeed. These are real people here. Quality Americans that have concerns just like you and want to be good enough to be able to stand on the line shoulder to shoulder with their forefathers. Best of all they care enough about our country to give up their time for the high wages they are getting paid to teach us the right techniques to become great shooters. Believe it, it works, the light will come on and you will shoot well.

I am in awe of the parents that brought their children. I am blown away at the tenacity of the kids and their great scores. What wonderful attitudes, a tribute to their parents. It reaffirms my belief that this is the greatest country in the world.

We made many friends this last weekend. We will be back. We will bring as many people as we can to also experience the agony and the ecstasy of AQT, making the friendships that will last for years, and becoming a competent shooters.

Thank you to everyone involved, those that attended and those that taught. Thanks Fred for the no BS method of teaching and for sharing the important stuff. Special thanks to Bill, Jill and Mike for shifting gears. It's really saying something that everyone who attended spent their Memorial Day weekend at an Appleseed.

[Lady Lefty]

This was my first Appleseed weekend as well. Overall I would say that I had a good time.  However there are a couple of things that left me scratching my head, and questioning what exactly Appleseed is.  

First let me say that the majority of the orange hats and red hats that I met were awesome.  I can truly say that they know their stuff. I was impressed by the double and triple checking of the line for safety.  That makes me believe that it is a safe activity to now bring my children to.  Ramseur looks to have nice ranges, and nice camping areas and overall is a nice place to come for an Appleseed, and my kids will have a great time.

Second, the BBQ that was brought in on Sunday was great! Thanks so much for being so thoughtful to bring that to us. You didn't have to and we all, I'm sure we all appreciated it, Kevin.

Thirdly, the handouts that were given out were, while rather wordy, had some helpful info on them. Mostly how to self diagnose problems with your shots not being in tighter groups.  

Ohh and I liked the shooting of the red coats, it tied in nicely with the excitement of hearing the history and let you get involved with the story.  I really enjoyed hearing about our History, and seeing the events progress.


Like I said, overall I had a good time, but there was a couple of things that left me questioning...

Based on what was on the t-shirts everyone was wearing, Appleseed is about learning, marksmanship, and history, but I was frankly put off by some of the overly political statements.  Granted, rifles, guns and the 2nd Amendment are more pushed by the conservatives in this country.  And Appleseed by being involved with this type of activity is probably more regarded by conservatives. However, don't liberals and people less conservative need to learn about our history? Don't they need to know how to use a rifle too?  Are they any less important?  I just got the overall feeling that the leaders felt that America is going to hell, and we had better do something. "Get off the couch"..  and "sinking ships" were mentioned a few times.  Here's a question that rambled around in my head.. How is me, being a rifleman/riflewoman, going to save America?  Is that to protect myself from the  bad things that are going to happen?  (I'm referring to the radio program that I guess is going to be coming up.. I was reading the forums a little before I posted...)  Is me being a rifleman/riflewoman, going to do anything other than improve my marksmanship skills? I guess I'm a little confused on how these two things go together.  How I see it, is if this organization is really about history and marksmanship, then it should try to stay away from pointing fingers.  While some of the crowd was going along with it, I saw discomfort on a couple of the faces.  That concerns me.  

Perhaps it's the fear that history will repeat itself.. ?

Another thing that left a strange taste in my mouth was the interruption of the instructors while they were instructing.  I was really bothered that Mark, got put on the spot for his  choice of using "ok". Sure, repeating words such as "ok" and "ya know", could lead the listener astray.  Sure, they can be annoying, and are not signs of a true speaker.  Yes, Mark could really work on that, and yes, he would be a much more effective instructor and/or speaker if he didn't use those words.  However, I think calling him out, was sort of mean spirited and not really necessary.  But this was only one case of interruption.   There were others.  One time when we were having instruction on correct NPOA, the instructor got interrupted to start a discussion of more "sinking ship" talk.  As someone who was just trying to learn the correct way of holding myself to get a better shot, I was put off by that...  If an instructor was asked by another instructor if there was something they'd like to interject, then that is fine, but I think it really messed up the organizational flow of the day to just interrupt.  

I've done my best to describe things as I saw them.  If anything, please take this as constructive criticism.  I only pointed out the things that made me raise my eyebrows and question.  Like I said Appleseed looks to be a good program. It serves a good purpose to get people interested in learning about our heritage and how to use a rifle correctly and safely.  I think if it stays along those lines, then I think it will continue to grow.  I would just caution the leadership not to get overly political.  I will attend another Appleseed.  Perhaps, this next time, I can get my rifleman patch.  

Blessings,
LL

[AFTERMATH]

WOW!
These are some really well-written and thurough AAR's.
We really appreciate the feedback-it lets us know how we can improve the program
and make it a more rewarding expirience for us all.

Thank you,
I wish I was there.


Alex

[7.62BBQ]

Another great Appleseed at the RWVA home range. Many thanks to Truculent turtle and the IIT's from the week long RBC run by Son of Martha. We also had the pleasure of Fred stopping by on all 3 days of the AS.

We had 31 shooters on Saturday, 26 on Sunday, and 17 shooters on Memorial Day. There were no Rifleman patches handed out on Saturday but by Sunday we gave out 5. Monday saw 2 more Rifleman patches handed out by the end of the day.

On monday I took all the Rifleman (and one shooter that was pretty close) up to the full distance range to shoot some pop-up targets. We engaged the Red Coats at 200, 300, 400, and 460 yards. By the end of the afternoon John wanted to see if he could hit the Red Coat at 460 yards from the standing position using a Hasty sling on his M1 Garand. Well let me tell you he hit that fella with one shot! Just another example of what an Appleseeder can do after a weekends worth of instruction on the Appleseed Trail  .

I'd like to thank every one who came down to Ramseur on this Memorial Day weekend. I can not think of a better way to honor our fallen soldiers/patriots than by telling the story of April 19,1775 and exercising the liberties they secured for us and passing on the heritage.

Kevin

[Truculent turtle]

To  all  those  that  took  the  time  to  post  their  thoughts  on  Ramseur,  thank  you.  If  you  had  constructive  criticism,  thank  you--we  in  the  program  want  to  hear  that.    If  you  thought  it  was  the  best  thing  since  sliced  bread,  thank  you--we  in  the  program  need  to  hear  that  also.  Sometimes  I even  cut  and  paste  after action  comments and  send  them  to  those  that are  still  on  the  fence, hope  you  do  not  mind.

I  sat  down  several  hours  ago  and  read  through  what  folks  had  said and  then  got  busy  on  all  those  things at  home that  fell  through  the cracks  while  I  was  gone  9 days.  Really  did  not  intend  to  write  this  but  Lady  Lefty  has  some  thoughts  that may  not  be  hers  alone.  So,  from  that  vein,  I came  back   to address  them.

First  of  all Lady Lefty,  thank  you  for  coming.  I  was  serious  when  I  told  you  all  that  right  off  the  start  those  of  you  that  gave  up your time (personal & family) and your  money  to  join  us  have  commited  something  that  99.9%  of other  members  of this  country  could  not  find  the  time  to  commit.  You  truly  do  honor  us  with  your  presence.  I  hope  I  can  answer,  from  my  personal  perspective-not  official  Appleseed,  some  of  your  concerns.  First,  as  I  think  I  told  you,  Appleseed  is  not a pure 2nd  Admendent  organization.  I  think  most  of  us  would  to  say  we are  a  Bill  of  Rights  organization.  If  one  of  the  rights  in  the  Bill  of  Rights  falls,  can  the  others  be  far  behind?  True,  some  would  say  that  there  might  be  more  stability in  the  Constitution  and  the  Bill  of  Rights as a  whole  because  the  2nd  Admendment is  in  place  but  that  is  not  the  point.   Nobody  in  their  right  mind  wants a  situation  where  the  2nd  is  the  most  important.  The  longer  I  associate  with  Appleseed  the  less  it  is  about  marksmanship.  Appleseed,  to  me,  has  become an  American  hertitage and  American  history  organization,  that,  oh  by  the  way,  has a  pretty  good  marksmanship  program.  If  we  do  our job  well,  the  the marksmanship  remains only a  fun  sport.

Ok,  so  what  is  the  job.  If  I, a not  quite  newbie,  can  convence  you, a  newbie,  that  the  irreversable  actions  taken  on  19  April  1775 gave  us  a  country  founded  on the  individual  rights and  collective  freedoms that  the  Constitution and  the  Bill  of  Rights  gives  us.  These  freedoms  allow  us  to  pursue  Life,  Liberty and  the  Pursuit  of  Happiness  on a  daily  basis  limited only  by our  individual desires,  motivation and  drive.   If  I  am  successful  with  this then  I  have  won  half  the  battle.    After  that  my  next  goal  would  be  to  motivate  you  to  reexamine  your  personal  commitment  to your individual level of  personal  responsiblity.    I  feel  that  personal  responsibility  begins with  an  individual,  (dah!! ) but    I  think  some  have  forgotten  that.   Whether  it  be  to  lose  weight,  and  get  in  better  shape  (Would  anyone argue  that  you  can  provide  better  for  yourself  and  your  family  if  you are  in  better  physical  condition  which  results  in  better health?);  or  set  a better  example  for  your  family  and  neighbors  in  terms  of  things  like  honesty,  commitment  to  your  family, humility, concern  for  others (and  willingness  to  do  something),  or  perhaps  make  those  tough  love  decisions  for  your  kids like  insisting  on  family  suppers  and then  doing  something  together, even  if  it  homework,  instead  of  tv  or  video games  or  My  Space  stuff?     It  could  be  that  you  would  take  increased  personal  responsiblity  for  running  this  country  of  ours,  By  the  People,  For  the  People.  Get  more involved  in  our  political  process  and  staying  in  close and  personal  touch  with  our  elected officials  at  all  levels  and  using  brutally  that  that weapon  give  us  as  the  result  of 19  April 1775,  the   Vote     It  could  be  that  personally  responsibility  takes  the  form  of  better  providing  for  your  family by  taking  whatever  job  you  have seriously,  and  with  gratitude, or  keeping  an  extra  can  of  beans  on  the shelf or  an  extra  gallon  of  gas  in  the garage so  that  when a  winter  storm  or  a  summer  harricane  strikes, YOU  can  provide  for  your  family  and  not  let  that  fall  to  someone  else.  Would  that  make  you  a  hoarder  or  a  surrvialist?  NO,  it  makes  you  a  provider  of  your  family.  Increased  personal  responsibility  could  be  increasing  your individual  skills,   whether  it  be  learning  to  repair  something  or  build  something  or  grow  your  own  food,  or, yes,  even  learning  to  shoot  better,  and  then  teaching  others.

Notice  I  have  yet  to  make  a political  statement  or  endorse any  political  ideology  or  person .  We, I,  do  not  do  that.  Notice  I  have  yet  to  make a  blanket  statement  about  some  direction  our  country  is  taking  politically, economiclly   or  spiritually.    I  am  satisfied  to  let  chips  fall  where  they  may  if  I  can  teach  you  the  price that  was  paid  for our  country,  what  we  got,  specifically,  for  that  price and  to  get  up  "off  the  couch" in   gratitude  for  those  that  gave  us  what  we  have  by  taking  increased  personal responsibility  in  protecting  it.

Ok,  that  horse  is  dead,  I'll  quit  beating  on  it.  Regarding  your  thoughts  on  our  instruction.  Remember,  we are an  organization  of  volunteer Americans  teaching  other  volunteer  Americans.  No  one  gets  paid,  there are no  professional  teachers.  It  is  quite  possible  that  the  instructor  you are  listening  to  was  sitting  right  where  you are  a  very  short  time ago,  perhaps  literally  only  days.  We  teach a  tried  and  proven  system,  and we want  to teach  it effectively  and  professionally.  Since  we  all  agree  to  leave  our  ego  at  the  door  when  we  sign  on,  none  of  us  should  mind  being  corrected  or  correcting  those  individual speaking  or  teaching  habits  that  tend  to  take  away  from a  professional  presentation.  Regarding  jumping  in  when  another  is  speaking.  The  Red  hats  are  taught  to  work  hard at  resisting  jumping  in  to "just  put our  two  cents  worth in"  but  again  remember  the  instructor  may  be  very  new at  presenting  the information  and  we  cannot  let  wrong,  or  dangerous  or  unclear information  be  put  out.  If  I,  as  a  Red  Hat,  allow  that  then  I  am  the  one  at  fault.  As  you  know  time  is an  absolute  preminum  at  Appleseed.  We  would rarely  have  time  to  go  back  and  fix a  problem  that  could  have  been  prevented  in  the  first  place  by  jumping  in and  clarifying   or correcting an  issue.

Ok,  I  quit.  Standing  by  for  the  blast......

[Son of Martha]

+1 what he said.

And what I think is....

I can see significant changes in the country between the time I was a child and now.  I am not comfortable with these changes.  The particulars of such are of no concern, but the fact that they exist is.  (The only changes I am in approval of off the top of my head have to do with increased technological competence.  Laudable, but not really something to base a society on.)

Appleseed is a (metaphorical) smack upside the head that says, "You're an American damnit!  Act like one!".

Our perspective is that the problem is that 'Murikens are not doing their duty.  Duty. Duty.

We have had a very capable military that has kept us safe from foreign enemies.  We the People have not held up our end of the bargin, and the results are showing.

So, you are completely correct that liberals need to hear our message.  Conservatives do also.  IMHO, neither side is living up to the example set by the Founding Fathers.  Time to clown bat the lot of them...

Appleseed is not a "Conservative" organization in the sense of the modern political newspeak.  It is a conservative organization in the classical sense of "conserving" something worthy.  Kinda like the Audubon Society, except with rifles....

Remember that the program is all volunteer, and you might actually hear a wide range of opinions expressed at events.  (Though I daresay that the majority of them will be of what is today thought of to be a "conservative" bent...Look beneath the surface.  There is more that unites us than divides us.)  The organization itself of course cannot take a position.  The mission is to encourage people to think, with the context of the Founders in mind, and then trust the people to make the correct decisions as to what to do.

FWIW, presidential and congressional elections roll right off my back.  I preached attention to the Founder's ideas, remembrance of their sacrifices and the need for eternal vigilance under a Republican administration and will continue saying the same thing under a Democratic one.  Shucks, if Ron Paul ever gets elected I will be doing just what I am doing now....

Because the party in charge doesn't matter.  It is about worldview and attitude, and so far none of our modern politicos has a flippin' clue.

Best of luck, thanks for coming out with us.

SoM

[Texas Rifleman]

I like what Scout said:
A Rifleman never stops learning, a Rifleman never stops teaching. A Rifleman continues to seek ways to to protect the freedom the Founding Fathers left us, to improve himself, his home and family, his community, his state and his country, everyday of his life. A Rifleman adapts, a Rifleman overcomes and a Rifleman persists. This is not just some fancy gilded rhetoric we throw around like popcorn and pennies. This is the code we live by here. There is nothing wrong, no matter how often the mass of talking heads tells you it is wrong, or outdated, or corny, stupid and cavemanish, with having a code to live by in your life. Modern Americans have forgotten their code. They have forgotten how to be Americans. We are here to help them remember." Scout

To me this is what RWVA/Appleseed is all about, to show Americans that don't know or have forgot how to live free, live by a code and to encourage others to do so.

Well said Scout.

[DadOf4]

This was my first Appleseed and I brought 3 of my 4 kids (12, 12, 10 yrs, need to wait for the 7 yr old). We were there for all three days and really enjoyed it - the history, the teaching and coaching, and the chance to learn, practice, and improve. It wasn't easy, but it was easily worth it. I was proud of the kids for sticking with it all the way through, even though they were a bit frustrated at times. I even made Rifleman on the third day (when I went back to a 10/22 after trying out my new CMP Garand for a couple of AQTs). Of course, my sling had to be "real snug" for me to score that well :-)

I have no complaints at all, and many thanks for the program and the red and orange hats there giving their time and expertise to teach us. Great people running it, and attending too. The only way you could improve it would be to have it in Durham, or for a week (oh yeah, I could try a boot camp sometime). We are definitely planning on returning, eventually with wife and youngest so we can have our own star target team...

More than all that, which was great, I really appreciate the rationale behind the program - that we owe our liberty (what's left of it anyway) to those who were willing to pick up their rifles and lay their lives on the line for it, and that it is our duty to be prepared and willing to do the same if and when needed.

Come back and bring your kids, of any age. It was great to see another Dad and his 2 adult sons there. If enough of the next generation(s) have this mindset and are prepared, we and they won't have to do what our forefathers did on April 19, 1775.

Thanks!

DadOf4

[iron pony]

Sorry it took so long to post this AAR.  Funny how more work there seems to be when you take a week off than one would expect there to be when you get back.  :-)


I attended the RBC and AS during this week. I have to say that both exceeded my expectations. The quality of the instruction is top notch and the range is superior to what I've seen out there. I want to personally thank SOM and TT and 7.62bbq for making the entire experience one of the best I've had in years.  I question my sanity several times during the "AQT grind" mid-week but putting lead to paper at 500 yards is only surpassed in my shooting history by my first deer. Funny, the six steps and ballistics seem to be something predictable and work at both 25 and 500 yards.  Who would have known?   All kidding aside, I cannot more highly recommend that you attend a RBC if you really want to learn how to shoot. Thanks to all the others who attended that week, you guys are all great and I hope to see you again at another event.  I'm posting a couple pics for your enjoyment. Two of the 25 yard range and one of the RBC attendees getting ready to have some campfire chili courtesy of Turtle.   

Walter