New to Appleseed

[Calisnaps]

All that said, to ask this- once the weapon is zeroed, is there going to be any need to dope the sights? (meaning adjust the actual zero). I know we are going to be shooting at 25m, targets simulating farther ranges. But since the actual range is 25m, I can't imagine we would need to be adjusting sights once zeroed... and yet, I think I saw reference to having to do so during the course of fire.

Basically want to know if I need to track down better sight-adjustment tool for him.

My Sights were zeroed (also Tech sights) but I ended up adjusting them as the changes in my posture, cheek weld and shooting position affected my POA.

[Kinetic Energy]

@pcooper2
If you have your rifle properly zeroed at 82'/25m, then you shouldn't have to re-zero. We do teach everyone MOA and how to zero their rifle, and those who need to are given the opportunity to make adjustments.
That said, I'm of the mindset of I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. Instructors often carry some tools of their own if you get stuck.

Welcome to Appleseed and enjoy the event.

[pcooper2]

I went to Benning for basic I'm '88; what was your training company. I was at E-1/19, across from the Sand Hill theater.

Delta 1/38, 1989. (and yes, even 33 years later, I still have to resist the urge to yell "ROCK OF THE MARNE, SIR!" at the mention of the Company)

Sounds like you were in the same general area. We were in the new spaceship barracks, across from the PX and the grinder. We ran past you guys every Friday on our Battalion runs.

[pcooper2]

@pcooper2
If you have your rifle properly zeroed at 82'/25m, then you shouldn't have to re-zero. We do teach everyone MOA and how to zero their rifle, and those who need to are given the opportunity to make adjustments.
That said, I'm of the mindset of I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. Instructors often carry some tools of their own if you get stuck.

Welcome to Appleseed and enjoy the event.

Thanks. I tend to be something of a packrat, and I will quite likely bring too much stuff. Like you say, I'd rather have it and not need it, than the inverse.

I will probably just go ahead and get the little tool off Appleseed's store. I would get the tool supposedly purpose-made for these sights off of Tech Sights' shop, but it appears they have gotten away from the A2-style rear sight adjustment, and I can't see how on earth their tool would be useful.

EDIT: I noticed that apparently Techsights got away from the M16A1-style windage drum (example, here: https://www.tech-sights.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/TSR200-new-combo-sm.jpg) in favor of a detent plunger and castelated wheel. Yes, it works, but it is a serious PITA to deal with. I can adjust M16A1 rear sights with a bullet, pen, knife, key, etc... this thing, I have to find the actual tool. A very large step backwards, IMHO. I have sent an email off to ask why they did that, and if it's possible for me to get the old feature as per their pics, back. I can't imagine it is impossible- I just put Techsights on my AK and they have it. This is relevant, of course, because it applies to the discussion about having to carry around a special widget to do the adjustment.

[DEH]

Thank you, sir. I will bear that in mind.

I am watching this video series here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKfXBjvUjLQ&list=PLVlCoEE1rzM7jz7TXjXMUFJNkJ6YnBy1i&index=4) from an Appleseed instructor, and he recommends getting  DOPE book (Data On Personal Equipment) to record info on our rifle, etc. Where can I get that?

https://store.rwvaappleseed.com/product90.html

Dope books. 

I do not recommend hard cup elbow pads.  Soft only.

[Burnett]

'88 or '89? I was split-op NG so basic was June and July '88 at E-1/19 and AIT was June - August of '89 at C-2/58. We've definitely walked/crawled/run some of the same ground.
As for adjusting Tech-Sights, do you have the 100s or the 200s? If the 100s, there is a modification to put a knob on the rear instead of the A1 style thing.
edit: I just saw your post about the change in the rear sights. My 100 series sights came with the A1 style in the picture. I got a knob from Midway to change.

[Burnett]

57plymouth, sorry to highjack your thread. I hadn't paid close enough attention and did not realize that pcooper2 wasn't the OP.
My apologies,
Greg

[pcooper2]

'88 or '89? I was split-op NG so basic was June and July '88 at E-1/19 and AIT was June - August of '89 at C-2/58. We've definitely walked/crawled/run some of the same ground.
As for adjusting Tech-Sights, do you have the 100s or the 200s? If the 100s, there is a modification to put a knob on the rear instead of the A1 style thing.
edit: I just saw your post about the change in the rear sights. My 100 series sights came with the A1 style in the picture. I got a knob from Midway to change.

I was OSUT, DEP. I enlisted in 88, then did Boot and AIT as a long stretch in Aug of 89. I graduated about a week after Hugo, if I recall correctly. We were on our last forcemarch and the Drill Sergeants asked who was from Charleston.. 3 of us raised our hands... "It ain't there no more... get on the truck!" Well, as you might imagine, that was alarming... and the other guys were NOT happy that we got line-cut privileges to the phones.

I have the 200 series sights. They were supposed to come with the A1 style as in the pic, but did not. I have an email out to Eric inquiring, now. I can post a pic of what I got, later tonight.

I also found that a Monstrum 10/22 pic rail and a UTG sub-compact rear sight that come out to the same mount height overbore as the Tech-sights. I like them better due to the compatability with a pic rail and the obvious options that gives (RDO, scopes) even though I ultimately want to keep this rifle simple. I have had a devil of a time trying to get peep sights to work with a pic rail on a 10/22.. the NODAK SPUD is out of stock and they are basically out of business, as the PSA group bought them and are moving them to SC. Ideally I could just get the rail and sights from a Collector's Series 10/22 and bolt them on... except, nope, noone seems to sell them. I would say I'm pulling my hair out over this, but there isn't any to pull.

Sitting here watching these videos, it's amazing the stupid stuff I have forgotten over the years... like, the reason most folks wear a ball cap on the range, is because other hats won't work (looking at you, boonie). I am not big on ball caps, prefer boonies. Guess I'll have to get the guys at the parts store to give me one of their shop caps.

[pcooper2]

57plymouth, sorry to highjack your thread. I hadn't paid close enough attention and did not realize that pcooper2 wasn't the OP.
My apologies,
Greg

Concur, I didn't mean to threadjack, either.

[57plymouth]

57plymouth, sorry to highjack your thread. I hadn't paid close enough attention and did not realize that pcooper2 wasn't the OP.
My apologies,
Greg

No worries.  Ironic that there are two new guys in here named Cooper.  I'm the good looking one though.

pcooper2, you are doing the exact same overthinking I did. I got all worked up about getting everything right, and it all fell together in a rush. I ended up getting in on the April shoot at the last minute.  My wife had plans that got cancelled at 9:30pm the night before the event.  I went to the workshop and literally threw my junk together as fast as I could. I had moved my scope on my rifle to a cantilevered mount and never shot it after I moved it.  I was convinced the gun would be out of whack every direction, but it worked out as part of the class is how to zero the sights/scope. I thought I would be unprepared, but I was not. 

Go read the how to prepare page https://appleseedinfo.org/how-to-prepare/

That will cover everything you need. Go through that list and you will be absolutely golden.

I did not use elbow pads at the April 23/24 shoot, and the abrasions on my elbows are still scabbed up. I bought a set of cheap volleyball pads for the next class.  In practicing at my range they give some relief.  I was also wearing shorts, and may have been the only one there doing so (I cant' remember).  I have some nice .22 shaped scars on my calves from the 2 guys next to me!  However I'm more comfortable in shorts in the heat so I went with what I normally wear.

Be sure you have all the tools that you need to service your rifle.  If you don't have all of the screws for sights/scopes/slings/etc locked down with blue loctite it can rattle loose.  That caught a guy out last month, and DEH was able to patch him up. 

Bring lots of water.  Bring a chair.  Bring lunch and some quick snacks (jerky, apples, granola bars, whatever). Bring a wide brimmed hat, and a towel or bandanna to wipe off sweat.  Sunscreen and bug spray should be obvious.  I didn't use a notebook at the basic AS course.  The dope book would be better for a KD event I suppose.

Last month there was a long line of guys with 10/22's with basic scopes and the GI sling and we all did good.  You just need a clean basic rifle, with two mags, plenty of ammo, and a positive attitude.  It's a lot to learn, but it's a great time.  It's worth the price of entry and ammo just to shoot and be taught. 

[57plymouth]

Sitting here watching these videos, it's amazing the stupid stuff I have forgotten over the years... like, the reason most folks wear a ball cap on the range, is because other hats won't work (looking at you, boonie). I am not big on ball caps, prefer boonies. Guess I'll have to get the guys at the parts store to give me one of their shop caps.

There were several of us wearing wide brimmed hats or boonie hats in April.  I had on a wide brim Tilley hat and used foam ear plugs.  I had no issues except forgetting to put the plugs back in from time to time. 

[pcooper2]

pcooper2, you are doing the exact same overthinking I did. I got all worked up about getting everything right, and it all fell together in a rush. I ended up getting in on the April shoot at the last minute.  My wife had plans that got cancelled at 9:30pm the night before the event.  I went to the workshop and literally threw my junk together as fast as I could. I had moved my scope on my rifle to a cantilevered mount and never shot it after I moved it.  I was convinced the gun would be out of whack every direction, but it worked out as part of the class is how to zero the sights/scope. I thought I would be unprepared, but I was not. 
[\quote]

Go read the how to prepare page https://appleseedinfo.org/how-to-prepare/[\quote]
Already done. Just trying to optimize the opportunity.

Be sure you have all the tools that you need to service your rifle.  If you don't have all of the screws for sights/scopes/slings/etc locked down with blue loctite it can rattle loose.  That caught a guy out last month, and DEH was able to patch him up. 

This is pretty much job one for anything mechanical subject to impact or shock. Long since done.. though I did recently discover the wicking-grade Loctite.. and what a complete PITA it can be if you are too liberal with it. Long story short, I wound up having to drill a hole below my brand-new AR10 receiver's buffer retainer detent so I could rod out the stuck detent. Think that wicking threadlock will be going to my mechanic son and staying far away from my guns!

[pcooper2]

So, made much of the Tech-Sights having gotten away from the M16A1 adjustment dial on the right side of the rear sight, and what a pain it has been trying to find an adjustment tool that works well, while still being consistent across multiple iterations of the tool (ie- need two of them, as my son and I will both need them on our firing points and we don't want to hold up class)

Emailed Erik of Tech-sights, and he informed me there is a screwdriver or coin slot on the OTHER side of the sight.

 

Good lord. Sometimes I'm an idiot.

A simple (good quality) multitool will be the answer, then. Or, you know, a coin (which I admit to seldom carrying, the way things are these days).

Kid's birthday is coming up- I will get him a Leatherman. I wil break out either my SoG or Leatherman, with a belt case, and we should be fine on that.

Just wanted to circle back on that in case I'd mislead any folks on the Tech-Sight product. No complaints whatsoever. Any problems I may have will be due to old eyes, not the product.

[Burnett]

Oh yeah, the easiest way to adjust A2 rear sights is with a screwdriver or coin.

[pcooper2]

Well as it happens I came across a smoking deal on an HK 416-22LR, with RDO, bag, and 2 maga of ammo. So I may well just use that.

[Burnett]

There you go.

[57plymouth]

 

Well as it happens I came across a smoking deal on an HK 416-22LR, with RDO, bag, and 2 maga of ammo. So I may well just use that.

Do you mean you found one in a retailer for a deal?  If so, care to share?  I'd be interested in that.

[pcooper2]

Well as it happens I came across a smoking deal on an HK 416-22LR, with RDO, bag, and 2 maga of ammo. So I may well just use that.

Do you mean you found one in a retailer for a deal?  If so, care to share?  I'd be interested in that.

A young friend of mine happened to be selling it. I got it, a basic range bag, cheap RDO, and two mags with ammo, for $400. Not the best of deals, but not the worst, either. He bought it new 3 months ago and hardly used it.

[pcooper2]

My practice targets arrived Friday, so I took the kid and I to the range Sunday, and we did as much practice as we could. To be honest, I was mostly curious if I'd be able to see the bottom-most targets at 25 yards (ok, still not a full 25M, but the farthest I could try on the range- so about 75 feet vs 82.5 feet). I could, but not the best. I was able to hit the large target, standing, iron sights, all 10 rounds, without applying sling (and surely I am forgetting some lessons from BRM training 33 years ago in Boot!). Now, the small targets, I wasn't able to try from prone or sitting due to Range Rules- hoping to get out to the outdoor range next weekend.

So, still not sure if I will be able to shoot Rifleman with irons- I may just be too far gone vision-wise. So I will get a cheap scope and have that as an option. I feel like that's kind of cheating, but I surely can't hit what I can't see!

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Welcome to pcooper2 and to 57plymouth. Glad you guys found your way here and I hope you both get all the fun, knowledge and history you can handle from Appleseed.

Don't be too hard on yourself about the irons, pcooper2. Even current military doctrine makes use of basic optics nowadays. We teach and welcome both setups and I think many will tell you that achieving the Rifleman's score is rewarding—no matter what type of sighting system you use.

Whatever you decide, have fun with it! Our guys and gals will be glad to work with you whatever you choose to bring and are ready to help you get the most out of your rifle and gear.

Take care and be safe!

[pcooper2]

You make an excellent point, sir, and one I hadn't considered.

Thanks for the greetings. I am sure I will get a lot out of this Appleseed business- I already have!