Some Sight Alignment Pictures

[CaptainRebop]

I've recently had to diagnose some issues with my shooting.  I'm setting up a rifle for an upcoming KD shoot.  I threw together some parts I had laying around, and while it's "good enough" it still wasn't feeling right.  I took a few pictures to help diagnose what was going wrong, and I thought I should share them.

First, the rifle I have been putting together from parts I had laying around.  I'm managing about 5 MOA with it now (from a bench) and I know I'm not shooting my best with it.  I've been messing with the comb height and the scope position for a while now and I just can't seem to get it right.  I've been living with this rifle as a "good enough" rifle for a while now. 

Here's a picture of me with a firm, repeatable cheek weld.  My view through the optic is pretty good - no shadows at the edge, and I think I'm at the right eye relief.  I've drawn a red line straight from my pupil through the middle of the objective lense showing where I'm looking.  I've drawn a green line parallel with the receiver so you can see how close my sight alignment comes to being parallel with the receiver.

https://imgur.com/tGwpdSn - Parts Rifle with repeatable cheek weld

Here's a picture after I've adjusted my head to get perfect sight alignment.

https://imgur.com/zSmwE3Z - Parts Rifle with perfect sight alignment

You can see just how much I have to move to get perfect sight alignment.  No wonder this rifle isn't working out well for me - I've had to adjust both my eye relief and how high I'm holding my head.  Not a formula for consistency.

Here's another rifle where I spent a full hour adjusting the comb height until it felt perfect.  I can get a firm, repeatable cheek weld that also gives me good sight alignment.  In this picture you can see just how good it is.  I can shoot about 2.5 MOA with this rifle (from a bench).

https://imgur.com/bMBsiqR - Repeatable cheek weld + perfect sight alignment

By now I was curious and I took out my loaner 10-22 and got a firm cheek weld on it.  In this picture, the stock is not built up at all.  You can see that my sight alignment is just slightly off (though it seemed "good enough" to me).  When I shoot this as-is, I have trouble shooting better than 5 MOA.  I usually need just 1/8" of pool noodle to build up the stock - that's how this rifle was set up when I shot my Rifleman score with it. 

https://imgur.com/eX5ohlC - Repeatable cheek weld + "good enough" sight alignment

Just for fun, here's my M1 with the most repeatable cheek weld I can manage.  It doesn't fit me AT ALL.  I shoot about 6 MOA with it (once again, from a bench).

https://imgur.com/jSrtNCL - Repeatable cheek weld + terrible sight alignment

This process of looking at repeatable cheek weld and good sight alignment is something we'll do with shooters at events, but if you don't have an instructor handy a few pictures are very helpful to diagnose sight alignment issues.  Make sure you take one set of pictures with a repeatable cheek weld and another set with perfect sight alignment.  See how much (or how little) you have to move your head between the two pictures.

P.S. Still trying to figure out how to get images to render inline, but I've added links and the relevant images are also attached to this post

[MrZeke]

It's difficult to tell from just these pics, but your length of pull may need attention as well.

In your first 2 (5moa AR) your nose is almost at the receiver, yet the 2.5moa AR is considerably back further. 
Many manuals insist on "nose-to-charging handle".  My understanding is this has more to do with consistent head position across numerous rifles.

Since you are adjusting comb height specifically for yourself, I would first get the length of pull consistent, then scope position (based on eye-relief), and then finally pad for comb height. 
I find if I collapse the stock on my AR's, consistent head position is almost impossible from one course of fire to the next.

[CaptainRebop]

Excellent eye MrZeke! I hadn't considered how length of pull might be impacting my position.  There was a big difference in the length of pull between these two rifles - one was fully extended and the other was a few clicks short.  That is definitely making a difference in how far forward my head is in a perfect cheek weld position.

So on that note, any tips for finding the perfect length of pull?  After some searching I have found 2 schools of thought here:

• Your length of pull should be set to match the distance between the crease of your elbow and the tip of your (90 degree) trigger finger
• Your length of pull should result in your elbow being bent at 90 degrees when you shoulder the rifle

For some shooters these two measurements might lead them to the same length of pull, but apparently for my body geometry these are pretty different.  Based on how these rifles were configured, it seems I followed method #1 for the 5moa AR, but method #2 for the 2.5moa AR.  Method #2 appears to have worked out better for me in this case because it gave me much more room to do my turkey neck stretch forward, but I don't know what else I should be looking for to diagnose issues with my length of pull.

What else would you look for in a perfect length of pull?

[MrZeke]

My only advice in that regard, is shoot whatever gives you the most consistent groups.

My personal AR use includes unconventional positions and body armor, so I try not to get too specific when offering advise on that platform.

Try different lengths and compare group sizes (while changing NOTHING else).  You may even find that one length is best for prone while something else is more consistent for standing.

[ItsanSKS]

One of the things that I look at when a shooter is having inconsistent cheek weld issues is the position of their head when they engage the rifle.   In a 'perfect' head alignment, a line drawn from the tip of the nose to the centerline of the ears will be parallel to the bore of the rifle.  Even though I can't see your ears in the attached pictures, I can surmise that you most closely approximate this 'ideal' head position in the picture labelled "gibbz_good.jpg", and have the worst head position with the Garand. 

Here's why this matters, and why it can absolutely have an impact on your ability to shoot well with a rifle:

Eye strain.

If your nose is pointed towards the ground, you will have to look through the top of your eye socket in order to see through the sights.  This can impose significant strain on muscles that aren't used to being in this position for any protracted period of time, and it becomes flat-out tiresome. 

Now, if you consciously correct your head position as you engage the rifle, you may notice stiffness/resistance in your neck; simple stretching exercises for the neck should alleviate this.  If the stiffness persists, you may seek the assistance of a chiropractor and masseuse to help regain full mobility.  Upper back stiffness can also limit your ability to properly engage the rifle, but that stiffness is less likely to be resolved with stretching. 

Alternatively, you can change your index to the rifle, taking a less extreme angle to the rifle; maybe as shallow as 25°, instead of the 30-45° that we typically recommend.  This will necessitate bringing your support hand closer to your body, which will elevate the rifle, which forces your head into a more erect position, which allows you to use your eyes in their most natural position.

Changing your index as described above comes with a price.  Typically, we recommend putting your support hand at the forward sling swivel- this virtually eliminates the possibility of your hand slipping from position during recoil, and is perfectly repeatable; unfortunately, it is not always practical, or even possible, with some rifles and body types/geometries. 

[jmdavis]

Excellent eye MrZeke! I hadn't considered how length of pull might be impacting my position.  There was a big difference in the length of pull between these two rifles - one was fully extended and the other was a few clicks short.  That is definitely making a difference in how far forward my head is in a perfect cheek weld position.

So on that note, any tips for finding the perfect length of pull?  After some searching I have found 2 schools of thought here:

• Your length of pull should be set to match the distance between the crease of your elbow and the tip of your (90 degree) trigger finger
• Your length of pull should result in your elbow being bent at 90 degrees when you shoulder the rifle

For some shooters these two measurements might lead them to the same length of pull, but apparently for my body geometry these are pretty different.  Based on how these rifles were configured, it seems I followed method #1 for the 5moa AR, but method #2 for the 2.5moa AR.  Method #2 appears to have worked out better for me in this case because it gave me much more room to do my turkey neck stretch forward, but I don't know what else I should be looking for to diagnose issues with my length of pull.

What else would you look for in a perfect length of pull?

The correct length of pull will put your head in a position centered behind the rear sight or reticle (assuming a good cheek or spot weld) and your finger in a position to allow the trigger to move straight back. The distance from elbow to finger is an old wives tale that sometimes works, I have never heard anyone mention the second. You also need to make sure that if you are using a scope you can get it for enough forward in the prone position. My prone position requires an adjustable stock a little longer than standing and sitting.

A low mounted scope (within reason) helps in these regards and makes it easier to get the eye vertically centered without a lot of work.