Author Topic: Anyone hearing of ammo concerns?  (Read 195 times)

Offline Ramblin' Wreck

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Anyone hearing of ammo concerns?
« on: August 13, 2020, 09:25:03 AM »
Has anyone heard any feedback on lack of ammo coming up as a reason for not attending any events? It's probably time to dust off the reduced round count COF. I don't forsee the supply side of the equation getting better any time soon.  Share any information you have please.
Wreck
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Offline Mrs. Smith

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Re: Anyone hearing of ammo concerns?
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2020, 12:42:07 PM »
Has anyone heard any feedback on lack of ammo coming up as a reason for not attending any events? It's probably time to dust off the reduced round count COF. I don't forsee the supply side of the equation getting better any time soon.  Share any information you have please.
Wreck

You're definitely right,  Ben. It's that time again.
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Online scuzzy

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Re: Anyone hearing of ammo concerns?
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2020, 03:29:38 PM »
Yeah - getting harder to find and of course more expensive. And come November - lol no telling what it'll be like.

CMP has some Eley/CMP ammo for about 360 a case. You have to be a registered member and also a member of Appleseed though.

https://estore.thecmp.org/Catalog/Item/4C22ELYSTD-5000

Shipping is free - so if you purchased an RWVA/Appleseed membership what would offset the membership cost. I fellow instructor gave me some in March to use. It was decent. Not as good as a good batch of CCI SV but worthwhile. Maybe I was having a bad day?

Also sgammo.com (my goto store) has some Geco so called match ammo right now. I'd tried it once but my Tippmann hated it - about 8 moa groups. I'd traded it for some CCI SV. Guy I traded it to likes it. So no telling how it would work for you. Maybe it was a bad batch?

Heck - I'd bought 3 bricks of CCI SV late last year which absolutely sucked. Another instructor I know had evidently bought the same batch and man was it bad. First time I'd ever seen bad CCI SV. It was about 4 to 7 moa groups. There would be a nice tight group and then a big time flyer. However I'd bought some since then back in Feb and it was good - 2 moa all day long and sometimes 1.5 if I do my part. So you just never know.

https://www.sgammo.com/catalog/rimfire-ammunition/22-lr-ammo
« Last Edit: August 13, 2020, 03:40:30 PM by scuzzy »
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Offline Mrs. Smith

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Re: Anyone hearing of ammo concerns?
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2020, 03:43:07 PM »
Perhaps a refresher on reduced round count event protocol is in order?  We've gotten a lot of new folks in the organization since it was last necessary.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." - Robert A. Heinlein

"A generation which ignores history has no past, and no future." - Lazarus Long

"I will accept the rules that you feel are necessary for YOUR freedom. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." - Robert A. Heinlein

"I can kill you with my brain." - River Tam

Rifleman 5/29/16
Distinguished Rifleman 06/19/19 LADYSEED
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Offline Guntuckian

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Re: Anyone hearing of ammo concerns?
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2020, 04:09:49 PM »
Ammo disappeared the third week of March in local stores.  Since then, ammo sells out within 15-20 minutes for new shipments, on the RARE days ammo arrives, immediately after stores open.  Unlike previously, Walmart is no longer an option.  They don’t carry pistol ammo, any longer, and they limit purchases more severely, now.  It’s 3 boxes of 50 rounds, each, of crappy 22LR ammo now, instead of 3 value packs with 250-500+ rounds each.  Useless for Appleseed events. 

Online, I ordered two cases of 22 LR  over the last two weeks.  One for rifle, one for pistol.  The 2 stores I ordered from are now sold out, with no estimated restocking dates.  I looked at 6 stores before I found ammo in stock, for purchasing the case of pistol ammo.

--------------------------------------------------
1st Appleseed:           04/20/2013 - Palm Bay, FL
Rifleman:                   02/01/2014 - Palm Bay, FL
Cleared 1st Redcoat:   02/02/2014 - Palm Bay, FL
1st KD:  Palm Bay 8/14
1st IBC:  Dunnellon 4/15
Palm Bay 4/17 KD Rifleman
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Online scuzzy

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Re: Anyone hearing of ammo concerns?
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2020, 04:21:39 PM »
Perhaps a refresher on reduced round count event protocol is in order?  We've gotten a lot of new folks in the organization since it was last necessary.

Longer breaks between each AQT and tell more stories.

Tell each person to make each round count - don't pull the trigger until you are absolutely sure you're on target. Do some of the drills like ball & dummy. Hammer NPOA into their heads and take more time to do it.

Have a surprise Q&A between courses of fire. Point to somebody  and way "What is the first safety rule?" or "How do you check your NPOA?" Turn it into a conversation to make sure people get it. Throw some humor in there.

Heck - maybe during the NPOA instruction have a few students get behind the dummy rifle and show they know what you're talking about. I'd thought about buying a few cheap laser pointers and mounting them to the student's rifle. Have them demo it. That might be good right before doing a ball and dummy.

Improvise, Adapt, Overcome.
Matthew 10:34 - "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword."

Offline Ramblin' Wreck

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Re: Anyone hearing of ammo concerns?
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2020, 06:27:32 PM »
The thing that's worked for me in the past is to slow down, spend more time on dry fire drills, tell more history and as a last resort, shoot 3 round sighter groups instead of 5. Needless to say, no AQT grind. We sometimes lose sight of the fact that shooters don't know how much we usually shoot. If you go to a CMP or NRA class you will not fire anywhere near the round county we typically shoot on a weekend. Or, to use a phrase I picked up from DonD years ago, "we assume you've come here to learn to shoot, not just to shoot. You can do that at home."

I'm planning to add a one day KD to the schedule for December and I expect the round count to be 140 or less.

"Screw your courage to the sticking place and we'll not fail." - Shakespeare - Lady McBeth  ;)
Wreck
KD Requal 2/22/19 at 600 yards AR15 Service Rifle 50/50
25m Requal 2/1/2020 with AR15 scored 247

Without a heritage every generation starts over.

Beware an old man who still shoots iron sights.

Offline Google

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Re: Anyone hearing of ammo concerns?
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2020, 08:23:59 PM »
I'll echo what Ramblin' Wreck said about dry fire.  A common COF here (from dond) has 18 rounds fired before lunch on Saturday, but plenty of dry fire on the mat practicing all the fundamentals and fitting rifles to shooters.  The shot groups start small and we typically get through all the POIs on Saturday as well as an AQT, depending on the group of shooters of course.

Offline Guntuckian

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Re: Anyone hearing of ammo concerns?
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2020, 02:34:31 AM »
I'll echo what Ramblin' Wreck said about dry fire.  A common COF here (from dond) has 18 rounds fired before lunch on Saturday, but plenty of dry fire on the mat practicing all the fundamentals and fitting rifles to shooters.  The shot groups start small and we typically get through all the POIs on Saturday as well as an AQT, depending on the group of shooters of course.

I have done the same COF, too, back when ammo was scarce.  I also often still do the trigger reset drill, too, with no ammo on the mat, with Rifles across the shooter’s lap, in the 90 degree seated position, for the shooters to learn their trigger reset muscle memory skills, too.  This works fine for everyone except the bolt gun shooters.  It really helps to drive home the trigger reset and calling the shot parts of the 6 steps.
--------------------------------------------------
1st Appleseed:           04/20/2013 - Palm Bay, FL
Rifleman:                   02/01/2014 - Palm Bay, FL
Cleared 1st Redcoat:   02/02/2014 - Palm Bay, FL
1st KD:  Palm Bay 8/14
1st IBC:  Dunnellon 4/15
Palm Bay 4/17 KD Rifleman
Palm Bay 10/20 Rimfire KD Rifleman
NRA Certified (Rifle and Pistol Instructor, RSO)
 
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Offline Ramblin' Wreck

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Re: Anyone hearing of ammo concerns?
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2020, 10:44:18 AM »
Bump!
I just went online via Ammoseek.com and Gunbot.com and could not find any .22 LR ammo available. Is anyone experiencing shooters concerned about ammo availability?
Wreck
KD Requal 2/22/19 at 600 yards AR15 Service Rifle 50/50
25m Requal 2/1/2020 with AR15 scored 247

Without a heritage every generation starts over.

Beware an old man who still shoots iron sights.

Online scuzzy

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Re: Anyone hearing of ammo concerns?
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2020, 12:45:44 PM »
Bump!
I just went online via Ammoseek.com and Gunbot.com and could not find any .22 LR ammo available. Is anyone experiencing shooters concerned about ammo availability?
Wreck

Yup. Sure am.
Matthew 10:34 - "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword."

Offline Guntuckian

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Re: Anyone hearing of ammo concerns?
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2020, 06:51:48 PM »
Yes. 

Several shooters are expressing reluctance to shoot up anything other than stockpiled 22's, too.  No replacements are currently available commercially.

For those without stockpiles of .22's, or all the new gun owners, without stockpiles  of anything, it's a very dry time.
--------------------------------------------------
1st Appleseed:           04/20/2013 - Palm Bay, FL
Rifleman:                   02/01/2014 - Palm Bay, FL
Cleared 1st Redcoat:   02/02/2014 - Palm Bay, FL
1st KD:  Palm Bay 8/14
1st IBC:  Dunnellon 4/15
Palm Bay 4/17 KD Rifleman
Palm Bay 10/20 Rimfire KD Rifleman
NRA Certified (Rifle and Pistol Instructor, RSO)
 
 O.___.                            
  )V        O.___.                    
  /%       ( V       ,____    O.___.
 /  %      o/L         ,___--- V

Offline sleepy

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Re: Anyone hearing of ammo concerns?
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2020, 01:10:04 AM »
Ammo shortages have reduced numbers on the line; local range members have used ammo shortages as an excuse not to Appleseed.

Agreed on re-introducing reduced round-count protocols. I was lucky enough to get my hands on some old 12-rd AQTs, similar to Redcoats but no square and silhouettes having scoring rings.

Could we even use the Redcoat as an AQT, based on "hits only" as in a RFKD/KD? Could it also be the basis for a "one-minute AQT"?

Wreck is right on firing three rounds instead of five on squares; been pushing that for centerfire shooters all along. Another thought is reduce each square to two rounds, and add an imaginary first and last round to reduce the number of fliers. As long as you're getting consistency between two squares, it should be valid.

More focus on dry-firing might also be beneficial, not to mention economical.

Also, seeing as these ammo shortages are more on than off since I've joined Appleseed, should they become a permanent part of our doctrine?