Carrot and Stick

[sleepy]

Unsure if this is the best place to ask for feedback, but seems as good as any.

The CARROT

Many ranges and business give Appleseed enthusiastic support. We need to make this reciprocal, without being an overt endorsement.

My thought is recognize ranges that host our shoots, and businesses that promote our shoots via the Appleseed website. Not only can we inform potential patrons that they have establishments friendly to us needing support, but we can help (our partners and ourselves) with search engine optimization (SEO) by creating links (hopefully reciprocal) between them and us.


The STICK

Coming back from a shoot in Myakka City, Florida, I was doing my usual thing putting out flyers with gun shops. I had a disturbing experience south of Nashville, where a "black rifle shop", billboards and all, declined to lay out our flyers. Thinking about it, we as consumers probably end up subsidizing a lot of enemies of Appleseed's mission through ignorance.

As important as helping our friends is knowing who our enemies are, and being able to know who deserves our dollars.


Any thoughts regarding appropriate forums, etc?

[AJ Gonzales]

I think there's a lot to be said for forming relationships with ranges. If AS could help ranges by driving membership and/or involvement with other disciplines, ranges would get a more long term benefit from hosting AS events.

For shops that don't support us, I wonder if offering to allow their employees to shoot for free would result in a change of heart after they experience a weekend with us?

Its all about relationships.

[eaglescouter]

I think there's a lot to be said for forming relationships with ranges. If AS could help ranges by driving membership and/or involvement with other disciplines, ranges would get a more long term benefit from hosting AS events.

For shops that don't support us, I wonder if offering to allow their employees to shoot for free would result in a change of heart after they experience a weekend with us?

Its all about relationships.

I tried the 'gun shop employees are free' route by talking to an owner.  Zero results.
I tried again a year later by making up certificates for free shoots with the employee names on them, provided to the owner with a positive discussion.  Zero results.

Explanation:  Gun shops do the majority of their business on weekends, and the employee days off are monday and tuesday.  Thus our weekend shoots are inaccessible to those employees.

[B.C.]

This may help with host range relations, see here:

https://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=52789.0

[eaglescouter]

This may help with host range relations, see here:

https://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=52789.0

That banner idea for ranges that host Appleseed is awesome and I would love to see it implemented.

[Maximum Ordinate]

Enemy is a powerful word.  Just because someone doesn't recognize our Mission is in their best interest doesn't mean he's our enemy.  We just perceive the problems facing our Nation differently.

It's easy to develop an us vs. them mentality when someone isn't interested in furthering our Mission.  I've had a number of gun stores say they weren't interested in our trifolds or posters.  Usually, it's because they have their own training programs or partners.  They see us as competition who can beat them price-wise.

It's short-sighted thinking on their behalf.  Thank them with a smile and then follow up later.

Keep in mind Appleseed Guideline #9:

9.   Appleseed is "friend to all, enemy to none". We realize that fighting with others, with having enemies, is non-productive to our Mission. Therefore, we have no enemies other than Ignorance, Apathy, and Laziness. There'll be groups which will try to treat us as enemies, but no groups or people we'll treat as enemies. We should all strive to meet that "friends to all" standard, not only in dealing with non-Appleseeders, but in dealing with others in the program.

v/r
MO

[Tennessee Beast]

One thing you could do when you encounter a resistant shop is contact a local (or State Coordinator) and ask them if they could follow up in a few weeks.  It is possible that a local might have better luck.  In my experience, shops may be persuaded more by previous customers.  Even better luck if you are a customer that day.  It also could just be that you caught someone on a bad day.  Then again, the shop may just be a bad apple.  If it is the shop I am thinking about, they are in the process of moving and may be in a bad mood because the move is taking longer than anticipated.

[AJ Gonzales]

I think there's a lot to be said for forming relationships with ranges. If AS could help ranges by driving membership and/or involvement with other disciplines, ranges would get a more long term benefit from hosting AS events.

For shops that don't support us, I wonder if offering to allow their employees to shoot for free would result in a change of heart after they experience a weekend with us?

Its all about relationships.

I tried the 'gun shop employees are free' route by talking to an owner.  Zero results.
I tried again a year later by making up certificates for free shoots with the employee names on them, provided to the owner with a positive discussion.  Zero results.

Explanation:  Gun shops do the majority of their business on weekends, and the employee days off are monday and tuesday.  Thus our weekend shoots are inaccessible to those employees.

I feel ya. I'd say it's worth a shot and it might help. Nothing is ever guaranteed.

Baden-Powell said to not bait your hook with what you like, bait it with what the fish likes. I'd say the same holds true for gun shops and ranges.

[Lomshek]

Enemy is a powerful word.  Just because someone doesn't recognize our Mission is in their best interest doesn't mean he's our enemy.  We just perceive the problems facing our Nation differently.

It's easy to develop an us vs. them mentality when someone isn't interested in furthering our Mission.  I've had a number of gun stores say they weren't interested in our trifolds or posters.  Usually, it's because they have their own training programs or partners.  They see us as competition who can beat them price-wise.

It's short-sighted thinking on their behalf.  Thank them with a smile and then follow up later.

Keep in mind Appleseed Guideline #9:

9.   Appleseed is "friend to all, enemy to none". We realize that fighting with others, with having enemies, is non-productive to our Mission. Therefore, we have no enemies other than Ignorance, Apathy, and Laziness. There'll be groups which will try to treat us as enemies, but no groups or people we'll treat as enemies. We should all strive to meet that "friends to all" standard, not only in dealing with non-Appleseeders, but in dealing with others in the program.

v/r
MO

Not that Max needs back up but he's exactly right.

Appleseed only has carrots not sticks when it comes to things like this.

Speaking as a business owner I get so many requests for flyers and posters to be displayed at my shop you'd think I advertised as a public billboard.  A lot of places don't have the room and don't want to mess with it.

Especially when you're not a customer and it doesn't look like it'll help sell guns, ammo or gear.

I'd never consider a place like that an enemy or speak ill of them.  My local gun shop has always been supportive of the mission but after the first few Appleseeds got really enthusiastic after seeing how many folks came in wanting a new 10/22 and scope.

Maybe a few 'seeds in their area will change their mind.

[azmule]

One very likely posibility, sleepy, is something I've encountered at a couple of shops in AZ - also happened to be "black-rifle" tacticool focus type places.  It's because they contract to refer customers to a particular school or trainer for a percentage or other compensation.  Part of that is no promotion allowed of the competition, and that includes us.  I've tried convincing them that we're *creating* customers for their partners by planting the bug in folks that wouldn't have otherwise seen the value in higher-dollar training, but still no dice.

[Rusty1949]

A word of encouragement, I first learned about Project Appleseed by picking up a trifold from a local gun shop just east of Nashville. Hopefully that means there is hope for other shops. Might not hurt to call on other supporters regularly to remind them when having an event in their area, that way they can pass the word on to future enthusiasts. I say this because I had an opportunity to work with a scope manufacturer who supports Appleseed, but the person I spoke with on the phone had never heard of Project Appleseed. When I told him about it he was excited to find out when the next meet would be near him. Word of mouth is still the best advertisement you can get.