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Elberton, GA KD Graben River Farm September 27 - 28

Started by Ramblin' Wreck, September 29, 2014, 10:15:10 AM

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Ramblin' Wreck



This was the most fun I've ever had at an event. We had great weather and a fantastic bunch of shooters. Thanks to DrJohn and Guardian for making this look easy. Out of 16 shooters we ended up with 6 KD Riflemen and a lot more folks who left knowing absolutely where their rounds will hit at 100-400 yards. Some of the shooters are faster than I am and their comments above says it better than I can.

For more pictures of the event click on this PhotoBucket link.

http://s1121.photobucket.com/user/Ramblinwreck77/library/Appleseed%20Events/Elberton%20KD%20September%202014?sort=3&page=1

Wreck
"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin."  ― Samuel Adams

KD Requal Huntsville 11/13/22 with scoped Service Rifle 47/50
25m Requal 2/1/2020 with AR15 scored 247
25m Requal 4/17/2021 with .22 bolt gun - 237
61 KD and UKD events run/worked as of 1/18/22

You can't miss fast enough to qualify.

Without a heritage every generation starts over.

Beware an old man who still shoots iron sights.

"War is when your Government tells you who the enemy is. Revolution is when you figure it out for yourself" - unknown

DEH

   I will start off by saying that this was the best learning experience I have ever had in AS.  By extension, the most enjoyable as well.

Here is my AAR.  I plan to post it on two other forums.  I may add or delete some things over the next 24 hours or so.

What:
-2 day Designated Marksman course.  I know that it was officially titled Elberton KD shoot, but when people ask me what I did this weekend, I am going to call it a DM course.  This description is self-explanatory and more accurately reflects what we did.

Who:
-Instructor Cadre:  Ramblin Wreck, Dr. John, Guardian and a few others.
-Me:  Former AS instructor and shoot boss 2008-2012. Currently IIT (again) since JAN2014.  This is my 3rd "official" KD shoot with AS and I have had multiple other training courses plus a significant amount of personal training.

When: 
   -27-28SEP

Where:
   -Graben River Farms near Elberton, GA.  Including the weather, this was an ideal setting for such an event.  There was the ability to go out to 1000 yards if needed.  There were adequate facilities for all including a bunkhouse and people even cooked for us (HUZZAH!)

Why:
   -I consider myself to be a student of martial arts.  In my younger years, I studied the hand to hand type and quickly realized that the firearm is a superior way. My own training progression began with AS in 2008.  I have since progressed to tactical carbine, pistol and small unit tactics.
   I realized as early as 2009 that the Traditional Combat Riflery taught by the USMC, NRA Highpower and AS exists as its own separate school just like CQB, fighting pistol and snipercraft.   The USMC and Army currently call it the Designated Marksman.  Although up until right before Vietnam these skills were taught by both the Army and USMC and the designation was simply Rifleman.
   So, I took this class to maintain my skills as a Rifleman as I do not have easy access to facilities beyond 200 yards.  With the Unknown Distance portion of the class, I came away with some good training experiences and additional confidence in my own ability to engage targets.  Second reason was to re-gain familiarity with my DMR.  I have had this rifle for about two years and I did work it out to 600 yards 2 years ago;  however, I lost the index card I had the data on so I couldn't exactly remember where my BDC came in at.




   -Day One:  Began with class time in which what we were going to do and how that would be accomplished was explained.  We were given the tools (distance formulas) that we would need to accomplish the distance calculations.  Then we went to the firing line and started with a 25 m zero check.  We then pulled back to the 100 yd line and got our zeroes for 100 yds and then we shot stage 1 of the AQT.  Then we pulled back to 200, 300, and 400 and repeated the process.  At every stage we 3-4 opportunities to check our zeroes for that range.

   It was encouraged by the SI (Ramblin) that if we had optics, we should be learning how to use them as a BDC and find our holdovers for a particular range versus adjusting our turrets at every distance.  The Rifleman needs to be able to engage multiple targets at varying distances in a short amount of time.  Leave the turret adjustments to the snipers who only have to engage one target a minute.

   We did a total of 2 AQT's on day one and wrapped it up.

   -Day Two:  Began with a brief classroom instruction on what we were going to be doing and how we were going to do it.  We rolled out to the range and quickly did another 25 m zero check and repeated day 1 on the 100, 200, et al zero check and AQT stage.

   We broke for lunch while select individual prepped for the UnKnown Distance portion of the shoot after lunch.

   After lunch we rolled out to the range where 5 targets of varying size had been placed at varying distances. There was a 6th target back at the original target line that was considered extra credit but was significantly beyond what we had been instructed in.  We were given the sizes of the targets and 15 minutes to use anything but laser range finders to estimate the distance.  Fifteen minutes sounded like a long time but when it was announced that 11 minutes had passed I was still on the first target.

   Then we had to shoot the targets.  This is where the rubber meets the road.  I don't remember exactly the rules we had to operate with (didn't even catch them all while I was shooting) but it went something like this:  We had 1 minute to engage each target with two shots.  The scoring went from 1 point per shot if you used a bipod to 5 points per shot if you were standing.  If you missed and equal number of points was deducted from your score.  You also got one point for each target that you ranged correctly.

   As far as I am concerned, this was the pinnacle test of AS Rifleman skills.  It is said that Riflemen are forged on the anvil of the AQT.  I agree, but the ultimate test is to be able to engage targets at UKD.

   My own personal results were not bad.  I misunderstood the rules originally and thought that once the target was hit we were to move on the next one.  Though I had the time I rushed my second shot at the near target from the kneeling position and missed.  I erred on the side of caution and engaged all remaining targets from the prone. I missed one shot at the bonus target which was 650 yards away.

Equipment I used:

Home build DMR rifle.  20 inch PSA CHL CL barrel free floated with an A1 stock.  Geissele two stage trigger.  Leupold VXR 3-9x40 with Illuminated Ballistic Firedot reticle.  62 grain Armscor FMJ reloaded ammo.

   I have two philosophies on equipment: 1. If I am there to learn, I bring equipment that is ideal for the event.  This allows me to concentrate on learning what is being taught.  2. If I am there to practice what I have learned, I bring my go-to guns or guns that I might go to.

   In this case I was there to learn.  Both the UKD portion of the class and to learn how my rifle and scope would work.  Overall I was pleased.  The reticle had a generic BDC for many different loads;  however, for this particular load and rifle combination it was close to spot on once I figured out which dots to use.  Despite having the factory supplied reticle data in MOAs, I would have preferred a mil-dot system for ranging.

   At the KD shoot I did last year, I used an ACOG'ed M4 and I consider this to be adequate for SDM use out to 600 meters.  If distances are expected beyond 600, I would choose my DMR with an appropriate load.

Take aways:  (not necessarily things I learned but things that are useful for future students)

1.   Skill is more important than equipment.
2.   Come with a teachable attitude.  Everybody did and I suspect everybody learned.
3.   As it was described at the beginning of the class, the prime purpose was to get hard data on where YOUR rifle will shoot at distances.  As such, there is nothing wrong with using a bipod or rest to achieve results.
4.   Tactics AND Marksmanship beat marksmanship alone.  This was demonstrated during the UKD Top Shot.  The winner not only was a good shot, but he used good tactics by engaging the intermediate distance targets in the seated and kneeling position.  Hence he scored significantly higher than the #2 shot who erred on the side of caution and used prone.  The targets were well within the distance that a competent Rifleman could engage them from those positions.
5.   Marksmanship is a force creator and optics are a force multiplier.  The biggest challenge a Rifleman faces is target detection.  As some people found out, when you put your iron sights on a subdued target at distance the target tends to disappear.  I am a big proponent of using optics once you have mastered irons.
6.   A Rifleman knows his Rifle.  There were some people who were having problems with their equipment due to a lack of familiarity.  Nothing wrong with that, because I am sure they learned; however, if you are there to learn you may want to bring a rifle you are more familiar with.
7.   If you have optics, have optics that you can use as a BDC without having to adjust the turrets.
8.   Keep detailed records of everything that you shoot.  In my early days, I kept no records.  Then I moved to keeping records on index cards.  I lost the index cards so now I have moved to keeping everything in a binder and then transposing it to index cards as needed.  Memory is fallible and you can learn a lot by looking at your records

Sustain:
   Pretty much everything.  With the time constraints and range that we had, I can't think anything significant that would improve the product.  It was challenging enough that more advanced students learned something and it was an attainable goal for students just beginning their full distance instruction.
Improve: 
   The only thing I could think of doing differently is (with the discretion of the shoot boss based on the students present) maybe spend all Sunday doing the UKD portion.  As I stated before, I think that this is where the rubber meets the road and is the true test of our Rifleman skills. But that suggestion is subject to opinion. 
-Appleseed: '08-IBC, '09-Red Hat, '09-FT Stewart, '10-RBC, '14, '15, '22 KD
-I.C.E '11 Combat Focus Shooting.
-Tactical Response. '09-'12
-Fighting Rifle/Pistol, Immediate Action Medical, Way of the Rifle
-MTN Guerrilla-2013/Irreg Warfare
-Max Velocity Tactical. 2013-2022. RIFLEMAN,TEAM COYOTE
 CRCDx2,Combat Patrol, Rifleman Challenge,CQB,CTT,FOFx2. DCHx2.
-2Cor10:4-5. For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; Casting down imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, & bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.

freedomzxcv

It was a great weekend. It was a little intimidating looking through the materials I was sent before the shoot, but Rambling Wreck did a great job not burying us in minutia and conveying what we really needed to know to make the shot.

The top shot competion was the second most fun thing I've ever done prone. I went 1 for 2 on the 635? yard target even though I was fifty yards off on my ranging calculation. About a year ago I was a minute of beer can rifle shot. I can't think all the Appleseed instructors who have worked with me enough.
"Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - CS Lewis

MC

This KD was my 4th Appleseed event and as with all events, I came away with much much more than I expected. A big thanks to all of the instructors and ALL of those who helped/cooked some really great meals! I dont know the forum names of most of the folks at the event, so forgive me for not mentioning names. The work they all put into making everyone comfortable/hydrated and well fed is beyond description - THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!

Both days were a blast, and the UKD event on Sunday, in my opinion, will hopefully become the norm at Elberton - what better way to practice what you've learned?!?!

Photo below is of those who scored 40 or better on Saturday.

"If those in charge of our society - politicians, corporate executives, and owners of press and television - can dominate our ideas, they will be secure in their power. They will not need soldiers patrolling the streets. We will control ourselves." -Howard Zinn

Reno

This is Robert.
This was one of the best weekend I have had. This was the first time I have been able to get out past 200 yards and I was amazed at making those hits. I'm glad I was able to get dope on 2 rifles in a weekend. It really is easier to shoot Rifleman on the AQT at full distance than at 25M.

The top shot was super fun. I just wish I could have seen through the grass in prone for the 662 yard shot. I was amazed how "accurate" I was in ranging with just my front post. So much so that what I got up from sitting down what I saw made sense with my figures.

A bunch of great and talented Riflemen out there and thanks to the instructors.
Snapped a picture of the farmhouse and a view of top shot.

brianf31

I wish I could have stayed for Sunday! I've heard reports of what a great ranging exercise that was. That's real marksmanship stuff there.

Thanks to Ramblin Wreck for putting together such a great shoot, to Guardian and Dr John for their presentations, to Scar and Scarlett for the great meals and to Craig and Mr. Charles for being such gracious hosts.

If you've only ever been to 25m shoots, you don't know what you're missing. Besides the practical application of marksmanship skills at full distance, the camaraderie can't be beat. Do yourself a favor and make the next KD.
"Nevertheless, to the persecution and tyranny of his cruel ministry we will not tamely submit -- appealing to Heaven for the justice of our cause, we determine to die or be free."

― Joseph Warren

kestak

The most important events in the year for me in order:
- Appleseed KD.
- Appleseeds
- Wedding anniversary (She does not read the forums.... O0)
- October classic horror movies
...

You got what I mean... With a broken leg and a broken arm I would attend the KD. As long as I can see and I have one working finger to operate the trigger. It is as simple as that.

The shooting for me is 10% of the fun. The people are 90% of why I attend. Some people social drink or social smoke. Me I social shoot. :~ O0

On another note: Those of you who participated to the "This is the Greatest truck event", I am sad to say I messed up. I forgot one important thing about those cam-glasses: They begin to record after 2 seconds you press the button and if the recording is under 12 seconds, it does not save them.... I know...I know...What a moron I am. :slap:

worM2

Sorry, I know I'm a little late, but I just woke up...
A great weekend, pretty much no safety issues. I think we all had a good time.
I don't know when the last time I saw a line with so many center fire rifles was. Stage 2 of the AQT Saturday morning sounded amazing.
I would like to thank every one who participated in this event for making it a wonderful experience.

Thanks, Seth.
What what! Men dodging this way for single bullets! I am ashamed of you. They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance.
--- Last words of Union Major General John Sedgewick, 1864

armaborealis

Not much else to be said!

The only "improve" I'd have for the event is that it would have been nice to have a chance to get dope at 500 & 600 yards.  Why?
- The "rifleman's quarter mile" is 440 yards -- thus we need dope at 500!
- 500 & 600 would definitely push the AR shooters past their BSZ.
- 600 yards is the full range for CMP Service Rifle; as a CMP affiliated organization it'd make sense for a KD clinic to prepare students to shoot across the field.

The Elberton range is a great facility with the distance so it'd be nice to have the chance to make full use of it.  I'm not sure where to "buy" the half hour or so needed for these sighters.  Perhaps a little time could have been made back by shortening prep periods a bit, but our day was pretty jam packed.

Otherwise, the event was fantastic.  The field shoot exercise was really innovative and forced us to apply all the skills taught.  I really enjoyed being able to shoot two or three sighter strings to get good dope on my rifle/ammo/scope combination.  The facility at Graben River Farm was awesome, and the people I met were great.
Rifleman - 1 July 2012 - Gaston, SC
KD Qual - 27 September 2014 - Elberton, GA

Guardian

What an outstanding weekend! I thoroughly enjoyed myself, and I didn't even shoot. Its hard not to have fin with a group of folks as good as these.

The shooting this weekend was outstanding, as well. Folks really put a lot of effort into applying the instruction from this weekend, as well as what they'd learned at other events.

Congrats to all the KD Riflemen (and Riflewoman)! Congrats to Armaborealis for taking home the UKD trophy!

Armaborealis did a fine job with the 1776 and Timothy Murphy history presentations.

'Wreck managed to keep us all straight this weekend, a job few would take!

I hope to see you all again soon,
Marcus







The purple started on this end of the line. By the end of the weekend, there was purple about halfway down the line. Beware of the purple, it's contagious.




400 yards is a "fur piece."






Countin' holes at the end of the day. We did 50 rounds straight through without checking targets after spending the day getting comeups for each firing line.