Redoubling the Appleseed effort! (formally hoarding ;))

[biathlon]

We got about 3 months left guys. I hope all of you see what's coming. Get all you can now. Primers, powder, projectiles, brass,,     do whatever it takes.

It takes 'redoubling the Appleseed effort'!  ff

[Junior Birdman]

  And don't forget to bury your rifles.  JB

[wcmartin1]

I'm afraid I'll regretfully have to share mine with whomever needs some. 

Molon Labe

[Nickle]

Well, there's still time and opportunity to work within the system to change things for the better.

That being said, I've been getting ready for the "worst case scenario" for a long time now.

So, buy all you can, and stock pile it. Then (at the same time) work to change things by educating those around us.

When enough of the country finally wakes up, things will change, but probably not the kind of change some politicians want.

One of my concerns is ammo and component costs due to irrational (and rational) fear causing a run on ammo, with the proces going up due to supply and demand. It has happened before, and during a POTUS election cycle at that. Worse than high cost is flat out shortages and unavailability.

Now, how 'bout that Appleseed Program?

[biathlon]

No, don't bury your rifle. the situation we're in now is unprecedented. I've been anticipating this for quite awhile too.

[funfaler]

Hey folks,

Personal preps and providing for ones family is a human duty.

The primary "prep" that anyone can do, to "provide" for their family it to BAIL, BAIL, BAIL

That does not mean leave, that means roll up your sleeves, grab a couple of buckets and start bailing out USS America. 

Times will get bad, but "bunkering in" is far from the solution, it is a reaction.

Get all the Appleseed you can get, while the getting is good.

If H#)) in a hand basket is coming, would you be better off with 50 Appleseeders in your state or 5000? 

No matter how "Bad" things get, there will be a rebuilding process.  Are you better off with Appleseeders being in the leadership positions, or with non-Appleseeders? 

If we can boost the number of shooters that attend, the number of people that know about Appleseed, the number of people who are working toward the spread of Appleseed, then we have a chance to stave off troubled times.  If not that, then soften the blow, and we will have a more proper foundation in place for any rebuilding that may come.

Folks, there is only one solution to this (and many other issues we face) that is to get as many people to Appleseeds, and in an Appleseed frame of mind, as possible, AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

The time of sitting on our couches, worrying about what others are doing, is gone.

We have 1400 members on this board. 

There are DOZENS OF EXAMPLES of GREAT people on this forum, doing Great things and have an effect that a force of 50-100 "average americans" could never hope to achieve.

ONE PERSON IS MAKING A DIFFERENCE, nearly daily here at Appleseed.

Imagine just 700 of the 1400 here, being that kind of American!  Just Imagine what this program and this nation could be like in just 3 months, if all 1400 Appleseeders here started acting like Riflemen!

A force of 1400 motivated, properly foundationed, real Americans, with a Rifleman's heart, DOING, making a difference.   That could easily be something that could change the course of the nation.....It can happen folks, we are having impacts on a state level, in some very big states, CA, TX, IL, the Northeast, FL.

It can happen!

We are starting to get some contacts in the State level Representatives in some states.

WE need more effort, and the less time you think we have, that is more effort we need.  To do otherwise is to QUIT, and that is not to "prepare and provide" for your family, that is to QUIT them and let them down.  That is telling the next generation that you care so little about them, that you are unwilling to 'discomfort' yourself to preserve what others have DIED to give you.........

[SamD]

funfaler is right on target.

This is not a time to fear but rather a time to work hard to bring positive things (like APPLESEED) to fruition.

I made a point of inviting every candidate for federal office in my state to our 18 Oct Appleseed.
You would be surprised at the response. At least 2 of those candidates are going to show up. One of them ostensibly an ANTI.  I doubt if they will stay for the whole program, but they will come and they will see, and I will plant a seed in their mind, and it will grow because I'm a good gardener.  One got the wrong word from his scheduler and showed up at the range last weekend and of course we weren't there. He will come on the 18th though.  And we will plant a seed in his mind.
Called any of your friends to invite them to an Appleseed today?
Is there a gunsmith or gun store in your town that doesn't have Appleseed flyers on their wall?
A community bulletin board that doesn't have one?
Did you make an add for the community access channel on your cable system?
Your nieces and nephews signed up for your shoot this month?
How about your own kids, grandchildren, neighbors teenage son and daughter?
Invited your Mayor, Councilman, Representative, a stray Community organizer?


Spread the word folks.  That's the way.  Burying 3 tons of ammo in the back yard isn't the way.
Spread the seeds and gather the harvest of liberty.
Print out an Appleseed promo target, take it to Staples and make 100 copies for $9.00 and leave them on the counter at your local range when you go on Saturday?
How many seeds have you planted today?

[Cal 7.62]

Funny you should mention burying. I recently came across this little gem in my late uncle Rodger's papers.

Listen my children and you shall hear
of the midnight ride of Paul Revere,
"To arms, to arms, to spades and hoes;
Bury all your guns, before the King knows!"
Imagine the redcoats, filled with delight:
not one armed colonist stood ready to fight.
Lexington and Concord were burned to the ground,
crackling flames the only heard sound.
Higher taxes were levied, more rights were denied
For lack of arms many patriots died
So listen my children and you shall hear,
No country was born , only suffering and fear.
If tyranny you want, then bury and pray
for the speedy  arrival of that "brighter day"
But if liberty you love, and you yearn to be free,
then live by this motto:
Don't tread on ME!

So get out and Appleseed!

[didactic]

I don't believe in burying my rifles.

Right now, nobody's coming after them.

If/when somebody does, it'll be time to be digging them up.

Buying extra ammo, though, sounds like a fine idea.

My 20 cents worth.  Lately, 2 cents won't even buy much of an opinion.

[Wade]

Bury ammo and Rifle's  

Why not spend that kind of money on building a DAR   imho it will do more to save this country (and yourselfs and kids grandkids ) then going to far into stocking up on ammo (not that there is such a thing as to much ammo) personaly I believe  I am much better off have like minded ppl around me that Know what they are about then the money in ammo.

It's about something bigger then myself , I hope this gets ppl to thinking,,,,,,

Wade

[oldgrunt]

THERE YOU GO WADE... I'M TRACKIN ..C.M. ..BUT WE KNOW I- 10 WILL GET US FROM ON SIDE OF THE COUNTRY TO THE OTHER ..FAST..LOL
           
                             IN THE WORDS OF MY  COMMAND SGM  ONCE TOLD ME ....
                                                            F.I.D.O.

[kool aid]

So many ways to weigh in on this one.....

I will just give the old metaphore machine a crank and see what comes out:

<Crash..... Thud.... Thudthudthudthudthudthd.. whirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr>

Okey guys- in this life, in my mind, this stuff grows like Kudzu in Birdman's garden in Alabama. I don't have to do anything to make it worse.

If I allow the way things are going dictate the way in which I live my life, (and with the kind of tin foil hat wearing paranoid right wing nut job software/hardware set up in MY head......) I am gonna end up sitting on a pile of MRE's in a bunker someplace up in IDAHO or WYOMING clutching my trusty M1A and peering out the gun ports, waiting for the revinuers.

But.....

I am vigilant.

I don't think that it is crazy to head for the root cellar when you see a funnel shaped cloud moving your way. I will even go so far as to say that maybe there is something wicked this way comes.

But the whole reason I bent my life to fit around Appleseed is for the very reasons already alluded to in this post. I prefer to be out in front of it than behind a barracade, trying to wake up that last doofus as the wind is about to do a wizard of Oz on my farm house.... or my orange tree. Sorry guys, so many metaphors here this yeare

Anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE

SOM SOM SOM SOM SOM SOM SOM SOM <SUNG TO THE TUNE OF THE 'SPAM' SONG IN MONTY PYTHON>

Yes- get it stuck in your head brothers and sisters. I will be leaving it on your answering machines like a bad pop song that you can't get out of your head.


And I have not been posting here that much as of late. People take exception to Haiku, and all. Just trying to do the lords work, don't you know.

And from where I see it, we need about 500 dudes and dudetts who are willing to do more than sit at a computer keyboard and......... type.

This is to say-

5000 red hats.

So, all together now,  sing it with me,

SOM SOM SOM SOM,
SOM SOM SOM SOM

It swings so much better than
'stay on mission, stay on message:
'stay on mission, stay on message:
'stay on mission, stay on message:
'stay on mission, stay on message
:'stay on mission, stay on message:
'stay on mission, stay on message:
'stay on mission, stay on message:
'stay on mission, stay on message:
'stay on mission, stay on message:

[slim]

I know I'm not supposed to jump into this bucketless thread.... but I can't help it either. It's in the back of all our minds. Anyway -

Ammo is heavy. If you keep in mind how much ammo you can carry, and for how long, you'll notice real quick that you can only carry so much, and it's nowhere near stockpile proportions. If it gets to the point where we'll need to use our Rifleman training, when we're actually shooting at the Red Coats, an ammo stockpile will be unnecessary because there'll be plenty of unused ammo laying on the ground. All we'll have to do is pick it up. (We Were Soldiers images coming to mind...)

I know personally, I've thought long and hard about just how much of my household income should go into the "defense budget" so to speak. Appleseed is one of the line-items on that budgeting list, as is ammo and MREs, a shiny new M-1A with all the trimmings, even some upgrades for my Urban Assault Vehicle (a.k.a. the Jeep sitting out in the driveway that I'm way upside-down on.) and there are a million things I've wanted to buy for a long time and a million dollars I could spend (if I had it, of course) on that cause. However, it comes down to this - I have two feet and two hands. I can run or drive so far carrying so much weight and I can only use so much of it at one time.

So, what I've done, based on my budget (and the wife's "input") is dedicate my time and resources to "upgrading" what I have and doing my best to update my "software" and the "software" of those around me. I'm living by the mantra that one shooter with a beautiful rifle shooting sub-MOA is going to be bested by two shooters shooting two MOA together. That's where Appleseed comes in. And that's where the hope still lies that we'll never have to fire a shot. If everyone's "software" is such that we don't need to shoot together, then we'll never need a stockpile of ammo.

On that note, those of you who've read the Guide can probably recall the "Happy Valley" parable. When I was finished reading, I was reminded of a part in the movie Last Man Standing when they had just shot up the convoy of trucks and stolen all the booze. After it was finished, the gang boss says "the best part of it is we got all his trucks. Do you know how hard it is to get a truck in Mexico?"

The "Happy Valley" scenario and the part in that movie illustrate that while it's nice to have a stockpile, it's not always necessary. After action there will be spoils and often those spoils can be utilized by the victors to further their cause. It's not inconceivable to think the Red Coats will be carrying (or drop) some pretty nice hardware.

If we have the right "software" then that hardware will become ours.

Save your money.... and GRAB A BUCKET!!!

[funfaler]

OK folks, one of the benefits of being a "Supreme Moderator" here is that you get the "last word" on such subjects (In the immortal words of Shana Twain "Man, I feel like a Woman"  )

Again, personal preps and accountability is in the spirit of 1775, no doubt.  You all have done a fine job in getting/keeping this thread on Appleseed message, and thanks.

I would like to toss out one last "bomb" before we put this thread to bed (I hope that it just dies an honorable death, with new ideas/concerns/thoughts coming in the form of new threads).

What is an Appleseeder/Rifleman worth?  and what is the cost to produce one?

Cost:  We will assume that this person has the tools.  So, we are looking at $70 and a weekend of time to "start the training process".  We can assume that persistence leads them to shooting Rifleman in 2 months of every other weekend of shooting.  If they are using a 22, ammo costs are less than $50.  Time, well, pretty minimal, considering the skills achieved.

Worth:  A True Rifleman.  There is the confidence and knowledge that they have acquired an unique American skill, one that has traditionally defended American Liberty, from 1775 to today, this is near priceless.

However, if this is a True Rifleman, they are very active in producing other Rifleman.  So, we have this Rifleman that is working to produce more Rifleman at the rate of one a month (your mileage may vary, some do very many more Rifleman a month), so that gives us 12 new Rifleman due to their efforts. 

But wait, that is not the total worth.  Assume the True Rifleman 1 produces 12 more True Riflemen.  If you all crunch some numbers, and I will simplify for brevity, we are looking at 144 Riflemen in a single year, as the result of True Rifleman #1  . 

But wait, as you look at this, you quickly notice that as the layers of Riflemen stack up, they don't grow linearly, but exponentially!  Folks, this means that we have the ability to grow Riflemen, much faster than many can comprehend.

"One person can't make a difference", well, that has been proven wrong by Appleseed.  In just 3 short years, one person has grown himself from a single Appleseed Rifleman, to thousands, nationwide.   In just 1 more short year, these thousands can increase 10 fold or more, if we apply ourselves. 

So, cost/benefit are so vastly on our side, in the effort of producing Appleseed Riflemen, that there is no better investment for your Liberty and that of your children than Appleseeding.

Let's not look at the coming hard times as a time to "pull back into our shells", for fear of personal security, but as a process that will better cultivate and fertilize the ground for sowing Appleseeds!   As folks get uncomfortable, they are much more liable to get off the couch, we need to be there, to help them up and guide them to the Appleseed firing line 

Not troubled times, but better fishing   

[techres]

Two more cents worth:

1. As times get tight, money wise, LOCAL will mean more.  We may need to be ready to rely more heavily on the mini-applseeds if people don't want to travel too much (which is not a problem yet as gas prices plummet for now).

2. Local means you and your neighbors.  Invite them, invite them all.  If not for a full seed, then a mini one.  If not for a mini one, just get them to the range however you can.  Personally, I have resolved to take one new person to the range every month.  If they will go now and have fun, they will hit an Applseed.  If they come to an Appleseed...

3. LTR's are vital.  I would like to hope every IIT should have one or two.  If you have the guns, you can get them to a range.  Keep in mind, the time to teach basic use, safety, etc. is BEFORE a disaster situation or other SHTF.  Remember, get your neighbors there because they will be at your door the day after heck breaks loose anyways.

4. Appleseed has the power to avert disaster.  The national elections are just that - national.  Appleseed is local.  Local is where the power is in the end.  This nation is run by many more political critters than the ones at the top.  Each one of those lower tier critters needs to be invited to an Applseed - more than once.

5. Appleseed has the power to help in disaster as well.  The list of IIT's, Trainers, etc. kept by the state coordinators can easily be used to help check in on those whose area has been hard hit by weather or whatever.  Appleseed is both a movement, and a family.

But SOM SOM.  If we lose SOM SOM in these moments of stress, we lose it all.  If however, we realize that SOM SOM can solve and improve our situation in any circumstance, then push on.

What should Appelseeders do the day after the election if Obama wins?  More Appleseed.
What should Appelseeders do the day after the election if McCain wins?  More Appleseed.
What should Appelseeders do the day after the election if the economy collapses?  More Appleseed.
What should Appelseeders do the day after the election if an AWB is proposed?  More Appleseed.

SOM SOM

[Fred]

   Man, what good posts here! (Maybe we should keep this thread going? )

   techres, your post said more than you think it said.

   Mini-Appleseeds, heretofore the 'Cinderella of Appleseed' should be moved to the front burner.

   What better way to bring the AS message to the masses, but by having a mini-Appleseed, right in your neighborhood?

    Get some volunteers from that great mass that would resist driving 60 miles, or 100 miles? And spending two days, learning to shoot?

    In other words, a whole new population of people to draw on.

    In an hour or less (or more) you can give them the history and immerse them in the tradition, so compared to a regular AS, it's not so "mini" after all - since it's the history and tradition that has the power in AS.

    Guys, are you listening?

    We need to move minis up to the front burner. And give them the respect that so far they haven't really gotten.

     A thousand minis across the country in a weekend could result in 100 or 500 new volunteers for the program.

      And all of them, local.

     It'd be like casting a thousand seeds across the country, with the knowledge and confidence that a bunch of them will sprout, and we'll have AS programs growing, all over the country, totally separate from the 'regular' AS program.

     And a great way for AS instructors to 'keep their hand in' on 'off' weekends in a half day or less.

     Yes sir, we should be pushing minis as much as we can...

[Wade]

Yes the humble mini shoot much like the humble .22 it miaght not look like all that much at first but start useing em and well you will see .

Wade

[SamD]

Not to sound stupid or draw things off topic.
Someone send me "the drill" for a mini.

Sam

[B9]

A good mini layout as per Crak.............

Think of a mini as basically Saturday morning of the full 2-day.

Mine usually go like this:

Safety Brief
Little history
Hang 3 redcoats
Shoot redcoat 1
Talk Keys to a good prone
Shoot redcoat 2
Talk 6 Steps
Shoot redcoat 3
Talk NPOA and Rapid fire
Get NPOA on a square and shoot 5 rounds (rapid fire) for sighter
Talk IMC and Rifleman Standard
repeat 5round squares if necessary
Shoot a squares target (one shot per square changing NPOA)
AQT Stage 3
AQT Stage 4
Talk Keys to good Standing
AQT Stage 1
Talk Keys to good Sitting
AQT Stage 2
Talk/Score that AQT
Rapid Fire AQT
Little history
Maybe some more drills on what they need work on or RFAQTs
Redcoat

Time will kill you if you let it.  Hang as many targets as possible like all three redcoats at once or two pages of squares at once, or two AQTs at once.  However many you have room for.

If the sun is going down during your last AQT, start at 400 and work back to 100 so people can still see their target at the end.

Depending on how many people show up and how familiar you are with them, you can shoot with them or instruct.  It's great instructing practice.

[PHenry]

I have come to find inspiration in "icebergs" - they serve to cause me to re-double my efforts!

More icebergs just means more Appleseeding. Hoozaaahhhhh!

And to JB - "When it is time to bury your rifle - it is already time to dig it up". 

Just sayin'

[biathlon]

I began this thread because ammo is REAL important to Appleseed. I do not remember suggesting anyone bury their rifles or ammo. My reasoning is because the District of Communists will at least tax into oblivion anything they can't completely outlaw. Right now I can get 1000 CCI#34s for $30. Haz-mat is an additional $20 no matter how much you buy. Next year I anticipate them being at least twice that much because of taxes, increased haz-mat fees,,, you can guess the rest. Powder? Same thing. Projectiles? Try buying the CMPs 30/06 APs next year. Buy it now and stack it deep. 7.62 0r 556? "That's MILITARY ammo!!!" "We can't allow THAT!" Have all of you already forgotten the stunt OSHA tried last year limmiting places and sales of "Explosives"(powder and primers)? How many of you stocked up on all that sweet Portuguese 7.62 when Sportsmans Guide was selling 1000 round cases for $130.00??? Guys and Gals, don't let the next round of their incrementalism catch you empty. It's coming. Brass, powder, primers, projectiles, 22 long rifle, 22 mag, 17 hmr, 45, 357, 44 mag,,, you'll always get your $$$ back on it.
                                       
                             "22 long rifle will be the currency of the future"
                                     Colonel Jeff Cooper

[Junior Birdman]

  Guys.....Honest to pete. Anybody who's ever met me knows I was cracking on the idea that we needed to point out more icebergs.  I'm not the burying type. Makes it difficult to shoot em. JB

[V]

  Guys.....Honest to pete. Anybody who's ever met me knows I was cracking on the idea that we needed to point out more icebergs.  I'm not the burying type. Makes it difficult to shoot em. JB

Its that "primacy" thing JB, you'll now forever be known by some as that guy who buries his rifles... but hey, they ploughed them under at Concord right

[AZRedhawk44]

  Guys.....Honest to pete. Anybody who's ever met me knows I was cracking on the idea that we needed to point out more icebergs.  I'm not the burying type. Makes it difficult to shoot em. JB

Its that "primacy" thing JB, you'll now forever be known by some as that guy who buries his rifles... but hey, they ploughed them under at Concord right

That they did, and brought them right back out immediately after the goon squad grenadiers were done searching for them, to be used for their true calling.  Probably in the dirt less than a day, the way I read it.

[Wheeler44]

Its that "primacy" thing JB, you'll now forever be known by some as that guy who buries his rifles...

JB buries his rifles...
JB buries his rifles...

I know it's true 'cuz I read it on the internet....

JB buries his rifles........


Just kiddin' JB.....

Wheeler44

[SamD]

Redoubling! Redoubling!
enough with this double stuff man.

Growth is supposed to be exponential.
Sam

[VAshooter]

Is that a dead monkey? Where is JB. He can tell us.

VAshooter