Safety Tip

[Niskibum]

I wasn't sure where to put a safety issue, so if an admin know a better place feel free to move it.

I was reading about an incident with an SKS rifle that had a round stuck in the chamber. While trying to clear it the bolt was accidentally released which picked up a new round from the mag and when it struck the stuck round it hit the primer and the round went off, killing the operator.

I think it's probably a very good idea when trying to clear a jammed rifle to drop the mag first if possible to prevent an incident like this one. I don't know if this has been covered before, but I thought it was important enough to make sure everyone knows about it.

[airplanejoe]

N...m,
You are right. Clearing a rifle should begin with the steps required to make the "safe". First step is "magazine out"; you know the rest. This incident, if real also shows a gross violation of any set of safety rules I know off: "Always keep the muzzle in a safe direction". Other set of rules phrase it in this way: "Do not let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy". Applies to all rifles even if you know they are not loaded. A stuck live round, you need to be super-careful.
airplanejoe

[George Hacker]

Niskibum,

Safety tips are always welcome. Even if we know them, it is good to be reminded from time to time.

ShadowMan

[Niskibum]

I should clarify a bit. This was a fail to fire and when the bolt was pulled back the live round was not extracted. The bolt was accidentally released, the next round picked up from the mag and driven into the stuck live round. The operator was killed by the brass casing, not from bad muzzle control, the round basically exploded in the open receiver.

I know when I have a fail to fire, after waiting a bit for a hang fire, I open the bolt to eject the bad round, but in the future my first step will be to remove the mag.

I cannot verify if this is a true story, but I can see how it could happen, esp. with a rim fire. The few seconds to drop the mag after a ftf just to be safe are well worth it to me.

[Caliper]

I cannot verify if this is a true story, but I can see how it could happen, esp. with a rim fire.

Anything with a rounded bullet will be fine.  Witness all the rifles with tube mags that don't explode the magazine when fired.  You'd need a pointed bullet to do this. 


Along a similar line however...  The SKS, as well as most military type rifles (M1, M1A, AR15, etc) has a floating firing pin.  When the bolt is closed on a round, the firing pin lightly bounces off the primer.  (try ejecting a chambered round, you'll see a light "tap")  Because of this if your rifle has a floating firing pin, the bolt should only be dropped when pointing at a suitable backstop.  While unlikely with the correct primers, it is possible to have a slamfire when the bolt closes. 

[slim]

Stoppage clearing procedures dont necessarily require a mag drop. They do, however, necessitate the bolt stay pulled back or locked back to the rear depending on platform.

This incident highlights for us we're not in combat and shouldnt be doing stoppage clearing procedures to quickly get the weapon back up online. We neex to take our time and make sure every rifle is safe and clear after every stoppage.

[Big John]

I'd like to add a slightly tangential comment.

Many people, especially of the Glock using, speed shooting variety, will practice something called a misfire
drill. The Glock, as I am sure most here know, is a striker fired pistol that does not have what is commonly
called "second strike capability." That is, if it fires the striker, and the round does not go off, there is nothing
that can be done with the trigger, one must rack the slide to proceed. This is different from hammered pistols
(simply try again in double action) or other striker action models like Taurus (which makes budget pistols often
with technical improvements over the ones they are modeling after) where you have an unassisted, hard, but
functional second strike attempt. Thus, to get a Glock back in action, one does something called "Tap, Rack, Bang"
where you tap the mag to make sure it is seated, rack a new round in, and proceed with shooting.

The problem is this does not address hang fires. If you are shooting reputable ammo, your failures to fire should
be far and few between, but you don't know if they are misfires or hang fires. You could be in the first steps of the
tap rack bang recovery and have the hang fire go off when the slide is out of battery, possibly killing you.

As such, I do not advocate combat clearing a weapon at the range, unless you are practicing with snap cap salted
mags. Using good ammo, the odds of a failure to fire NOT being your snap caps in one of those mags are miniscule,
so one can safely combat clear and practice. But, if you know you did not load a mag with caps, then caution should be
the word of the day, and the first thing to do is pause with the rifle or other gun still safely down range, and consider
the next action carefully.

Of course, if you ever have a misfire and you happen to be on a two way shooting range, then you may have to hurry
up and combat clear in that situation, regardless.

[techres]

Improperly cleaned, ancient SKS's have been known to get stuck firing pins and start slam firing.  Even with that, an out of battery fire is not usually a lethal situation.

But, neither here nor there.  Have the student clear the rifle, step away, and then instructor take over the next step.  Once we had an instructor and student both working on a bolt at the same time.  When one slammed the bolt home, the other had the trigger back and boom a puff of dirt rose from the line a few feet in front of both.  ONE person holding rifle.  And keep it pointed in a safe direction.

[jmdavis]

I'd like to add a slightly tangential comment.

Many people, especially of the Glock using, speed shooting variety, will practice something called a misfire
drill. The Glock, as I am sure most here know, is a striker fired pistol that does not have what is commonly
called "second strike capability." That is, if it fires the striker, and the round does not go off, there is nothing
that can be done with the trigger, one must rack the slide to proceed. This is different from hammered pistols
(simply try again in double action) or other striker action models like Taurus (which makes budget pistols often
with technical improvements over the ones they are modeling after) where you have an unassisted, hard, but
functional second strike attempt. Thus, to get a Glock back in action, one does something called "Tap, Rack, Bang"
where you tap the mag to make sure it is seated, rack a new round in, and proceed with shooting.

Tap, rack, bang wasn't invented for glocks. It predates them and is applied to 1911's, HighPowers, M14's (M1A), M16 (AR15), 10/22's as well as most other magazine fed rifles and pistols regardless of whether they have a hammer. It is an immediate action drill.

Your brain and good judgement are your best safety. Use them.

[Big John]

I didn't mean to imply the drill was invented for Glocks. The point I was making is that it is useful
for striker fired pistols because you don't have an external hammer to recock.

However, semantics about which small arm has which drill aside, at the range, unless you are deliberately
introducing misfires via practice rounds, an immediate action drill does not mix actual misfires in a controlled
setting, as a hangfire could ruin your day.

Carry on.

[jmdavis]

In a highpower or bullseye match, I would agree with you.

But, when it comes to my self defense guns, I do practice immediate action drills. I also use them in practical rifle classes, 3 Gun, IDPA and IPSC. And to be honest, I've used them at Appleseeds when shooting an AQT.

[Niskibum]

Here is some info on SKS firing pin issues. I just ordered a new one yesterday. http://www.murraysguns.com/sksown.htm

[Unbridled Liberty]

Here is some info on SKS firing pin issues. I just ordered a new one yesterday. http://www.murraysguns.com/sksown.htm

Been there, done that.  That firing pin pierced my primers, which allowed hot gases to blow back through the hole and melt the spring.  I ended up returning the pin.  You don't need his pin.  The original works fine, you just have to keep your bolt clean so the pin rattles.  Slam fires occur on SKS's that have filthy bolts packed with aged cosmoline and crud that don't let the pin float.  Keep your original firing pin, as you will need it.

UL

[TOMINCT]

 Remnants of a cartridge case have been known to injure/kill in the past with bolt action rifles.

Stuck case in chamber, bolt removed and muzzle pointed downrange. Someone tapping the round out from the muzzle end of the barrel while someone stood behind the line, directly in line with the barrel/chamber. Tapping caused the round to fire, the rod and bullet became the breech and the cartridge case became the projectile. This was at a BR shoot IIRC.

Whenever clearing a stuck case/round from the muzzle end I make sure that I'm the one doing it and the ejection port is turned down toward the ground. If it goes it does so in a semi controlled manner.

Thanks for posting this.

[MandyMonstar]

In a highpower or bullseye match, I would agree with you.

But, when it comes to my self defense guns, I do practice immediate action drills. I also use them in practical rifle classes, 3 Gun, IDPA and IPSC. And to be honest, I've used them at Appleseeds when shooting an AQT.

I think it's also good to practice immediate action drills so that you're able to do them safely.  It's too easy to let the muzzle wander off the berm when you're distracted.  Some guns are just picky and short stroke badly with the wrong ammo.  If someone's using lower velocity match .22LR in a semi-auto, they may find that it's not reliably possible to completely cycle the action. 

With .22 being scarce, someone might buy ammo that isn't really optimal for their firearm.  Wolf, Lapua, and Eley are great in the right rifle, but many of their loads are not going to work in a semiauto.  Immediate action drills clear these malfunctions quickly and safely.  If someone's using the wrong ammo, and that's all they have, they'll need to give it to me practice manually cycling the bolt to be able to complete the course.

For what it's worth, I have a P22 that will fail to cycle just about every third shot when using any bulk ammo.  It gave me a lot of malfunction clearing practice until I found out that it's a picky eater and only likes CCI Mini-Mags.

[Roswell]

After waiting 30 seconds for a hang fire and keeping the muzzle down range, we do the first 3 steps of making a rifle safe, Mag out, bolt back, safety on. This seems to clear most issues.  If after doing this, there is still a round in the breech, an instructor will keep the muzzle down range and try with a very tiny pocket knife and a steady hand to slowly edge the round out by working the tiny knife edge around the rim of the case. I don't put a rod down unless a last resort (or possible squib). I usually back the round out about 3/4 and then a slight jiggle (again keeping it horizontal and down range) makes the round fall out of mag well. I find using a rod on a live round scarier as it seems harder to control the amount of pressure applied to the round and the question of depth as you often don't know if you are pushing out a live or fired round. Usually after this process a bore snake helps it not happen again.