Case Preparation

[wcmartin1]

Dillon has them, but here is one for 7.62/308 from Midway:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=271313&t=11082005

The 308 gauge will work for your 7.62 as M14 chambers are slightly larger than SAMMI-spec 308. 

They have the other calibers as well.

[Nickle]

Ouch!!

I have heard that about the newer Indian ammo, but so far have had good luck with the '70s production.  The ammo itself is not as accurate as some, but it is reloadable and believe it or not the '70s brass is actually heavier (stronger?) than Lake City by approximately 6-7 grains. 

Everything I've heard about the 70's Indian is good. Based on the weight (therefore the thickness), reduce your loads slightly, and you should be OK.

My experience was with the junk from '97, I think. Still got a bunch of it. It's my "last resort" ammo.

Edited to add:

Those gages are good, I swear by them. Mine are Wilson, bought mostly from Midway, though, I've had a couple of them from before Midway was in business. The Dillon are good, too.

[wcmartin1]

"Everything I've heard about the 70's Indian is good. Based on the weight (therefore the thickness), reduce your loads slightly, and you should be OK."


10-4.  I've already reloaded some of it 5 times.  I'll let you know about the Lithuanian.

[Nickle]

Before tumblers were used, we used Kool-Aid at the shop, and soaked the brass overnight. It worked well.

[wcmartin1]

I read in this thread how many use a tumbler; I never have. I use liquid soak, then air dry. Soak doesn't always get cases polished, but it does get them cleaned of case lube and grime. There's down time in drying, too.

Typically, I chuck a piece of brass in my .5: cordless drill, then give the neck a few seconds in the steel wool.

I used to clean the primer pockets, too. Not any more. I've been logging every shot since I stopped, and there is no discernible difference in POI or FPS. I've not had one misfire.

I believe you about the POI and FPS, but the main reason to clean primer pockets in a gas gun (M1, M1A, AR, etc.) is to ensure that you don't have a high primer, which is one of the contributing factors to a slam fire with a floating firing pin.  I'm all about saving time, but if you are not going to clean the primer pockets make sure that your primers are all seated slightly below flush with the rim.

[Muddogg]

Before tumblers were used, we used Kool-Aid at the shop, and soaked the brass overnight. It worked well.

Is that with or without sugar?

[Nickle]

Before tumblers were used, we used Kool-Aid at the shop, and soaked the brass overnight. It worked well.

Is that with or without sugar?

Believe it or not, it makes no difference.

Oh, cleaning your primer pockets does make a change in accuracy. I'll also tell you that you will need an extremely accurate rifle (as in well under 1 MOA) fired from the bench to notice it.

Very important on a gas gun to make sure the primer pockets are fairly clean, and wcmartin1 has the biggest reason.

[wcmartin1]

Two successful fired reloads of the fifty "test" Lithuanian (GGG) cases so far...

Third reload complete and looks good, I'll try to shoot them this weekend - time permitting.

[wcmartin1]

Fourth sucessful fired reload of the Lithuanian brass (using M852 equivalent load).  Shot a 228-10 with it on Q&D AQT this morning.  Will reload this brass one more time ...

[raf]

FWIW, I always clean my primer pockets before each reload and use a primer pocket uniformer cutter tool before the first reloading (it's not required on subsequent reloads).

I also de-burr the inside of the flash hole on trimmed cases.  For good measure, I take a light, manual turn on the outside (primer side) of the flash hole.  I figure that rocket and jet engines have tapers on either side of the compression node, so why not primer holes which are much the same thing?

Either tool chucked into a drill-press makes the task quick and easy.  Order at least two of each so you will always have a good tool if the used tool is being shipped back to manufacturer for replacement.  Yes, they will actually replace cutting tools under warranty, so take advantage of their good customer service.

I inspect each round's primer seating prior to loading.

I use mil-spec primers.

I inspect each primer of each loaded round.

I always inspect the primers of reloads prior to shooting.

Haven't found a bad one yet.

I triple-check myself because it's a good habit and nowadays no real hassle.

That said, I refuse to use private, non-commercial reloads, and am reluctant to use commercial reloads.

If I knew that the private reloader (or business) was consistently fanatical about quality control, I might consider using their product.

YMMV.

[didactic]

I had a similar happening (bead-blasted appearance) with a batch of .45acp cases and am pretty sure I can attribute to fine sand contamination in my corncob medium.  I'd describe their appearance as "frosty."  It started right after I added a mess of cases picked up from a sandy area and not rinsed off. That load of meduim had been used a long time, so it was a small loss to pitch it.  Cases worked fine, just looked a little funny.

I've always used corncob medium with either Dillon's or Midway polish, both seem to work about the same.

[ax238]

Can someone give me the proper mix of corn cob media and polish?  And perhaps a life span + or - runs to watch for?  Is it a practise to use that combo in every tumble?  Or should one alternate using the polish?

Also, how much money to get into the annealing aspect or reloading?  I read the link that was given earlier on in the thread and am interested.

ax

[Joe]

There are as many opinions about polishing media & adding polish as there are reloaders.  To start with you can by Lyman tumbler media with polish already in it. When you can't tell what it is anymore its probably time to throw it out. Most of the  reloading polishes come with directions on how much to use. Brand new most any media will give you bright shiny cases. As it gets dirtier the cases still get clean but it takes longer and the cases look more frosted or "pebbly". Your choice how far to go.

[Old Dog]

The dirt/crud level on your cases will determine how long it takes to clean them and probably affects the life of the media.

I got some crushed walnut shells at the pet store (large bag of bird cage litter, or what ever it is called).  It's been working fine for me.  Some folks say the stuff doesn't wear out.  I don't know for sure why but the first lot of corncob media (that came with the polisher from Midway) started "sandblasting" my cases after several hundred cases had gone through it (maybe 2 or 3 thousand cases).

Oh yeah, the pet store stuff is WAY cheaper than the gun store stuff.

[ax238]

That is what I am wondering.  If you have ever been on Friar Frog's website.

http://www.frfrogspad.com/homemade.htm#Case

he mentions several home remedies that work well for him and I was wondering myself about he pet store stuff.  We have tractor supply stores here.  Rural king's, Tractor Supply Stores etc.  They all carry that walnut stuff as well as very fine corn media in somethingn like 15 lb bags..

I am wanting home remedies, about to lose a very good job and I am the insider tricks to some of this stuff to save money.

[Old Dog]

There are several other folks here who have (in the past, on the old forum) indicated they also use the tractor supply, pet store, farm and fleet, etc. large bags of crushed corn cob and/or walnut shell media.

It's way cheaper than what the reloading/shooting/sports stores and catalogs sell the stuff for.  It works fine for me.

[Oohrah]

I buy my crushed walnut shells at Wally World in the pet department.
Even the employees in the sporting department were happy to learn of
it, as it is at least half of anywhere else.   It is however untreated.   I used
NuShine car finish when I run out of the brass shine products.   Also added
cut up strips of clothes drying softener anti static sheets.   Collects all the
nasties and extends the life of the media

[Redwolf]

Here is a site with some case preparation info.

http://www.realguns.com/Commentary/comar46.htm

[MrBill]

I'm probably more anal than needed about some things but first tumble with walnut media.  I bought the media fairly cheap at Harbor freight.  Works as well as the $$$$ stuff.  Then off to decapping / resizing.  Something I've found to do a good job on the primer pockets is an ultrasonic cleaner.  A little slow for volume reloading, but much faster than primer pocket uniforming.   I toss them in after decapping / sizing to remove lube and remove a fair amount of the carbon crud in the primer pocket and neck.  I can put about 33 cases at a time in the ultrasonic cleaner and run each batch for 90 seconds.  I need a bigger one now that I am reloading larger qty and not just 20 cases for Bench Rest    As an added benefit, I have also found the ultrasonic cleaner great for AR bolts and other small parts that get crudded up.  I then rinse cases thoroughly and lay on a towel out in the CA sun to dry or put in the oven at 150° for 30 minutes. If I am feeling neurotic, I'll then throw the cases in corn cob with a little polish to make them all nice and shiny

Still for accurate loads I use a primer pocket uniformer on every reload, but am too lazy to do this for every loading for the autochucker.  I also load autochucker ammo within SAAMI pressure limits so there is MUCH less primer pocket deformation than BR (yes, you know that you are at too high pressure when you have to disassemble the bolt and remove the primer anvil that has pushed it's way through the primer and squeezed through the firing pin hole into the bolt) 

[kissell]

A little off topic, but I tried resizing 7.62X51 Mil-Spec brass full length for my M1A with bad results. Standard NATO ammo dropped in nicely with the bolt stripped, however, the re-sized brass would not fall into place. Using a RCBS 308 die to do this and have repeated this proceedure several times on the same brass to no avail. Do they make a 7.62X51 sizing die set specifically for re-sizing &.62X51 cases. Haven't had luck finding one!

[Son of Martha]

RCBS X-die, SMALL BASE!!

Works like a charm.  Small base to make sure that all reloads fit into any rifle of the same caliber, X-die to limit case stretching over time.  Have only reloaded brass three times with the X-die so can't say for sure that the case stretching STOPS, but it is definitely less than with a standard full length die.

Get yer range pickups trimmed one time, reload many times without messing with the trimmer.  Wonderful.

SoM

[Talon]

A little off topic, but I tried resizing 7.62X51 Mil-Spec brass full length for my M1A with bad results. Standard NATO ammo dropped in nicely with the bolt stripped, however, the re-sized brass would not fall into place. Using a RCBS 308 die to do this and have repeated this proceedure several times on the same brass to no avail. Do they make a 7.62X51 sizing die set specifically for re-sizing &.62X51 cases. Haven't had luck finding one!

Is your die set a small base die set?

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showpage?saleitemid=824502&utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=free&utm_campaign=9315

Needed for proper function in semi and pump actions.

[kissell]

Thanks for the great info on the X-Dies. Should this also be standard proceedure for the M1Garand, a small base 30.06 X-Die?

[Old Dog]

If you already have the standard 30.06 dies try them.

Even though they all say ".308" or "30.06" on the dies and the rifles, chances are they are not identical.

I have two M1A type rifles in my house and both of them (one with a NM barrel) feed reloads from standard .308 dies (Pacific and Lee) just fine.  Your rifle may have a slightly tighter chamber or your dies may not have the same internal dimensions as mine.

I've only tried my 30.06 reloads in two of the Garands so far and they have done fine.  If you get the small base dies, when you don't need them, realize that you are "working" the brass more than necessary and it may fail after fewer reloadings.

I've heard a lot of good things about the X-dies and put a couple sets on my Christmas "wants" list.  We'll see how they do.

[kissell]

Two questions. First, is the small base sizing die just that! Too reduce the base of the brass? Second in reference to the Garand I have, I bought bulk ammo several years ago and just tried these rounds in the  Garand chamber with stripped bolt only to find some were too tight to close without effort, while a few chambered very smoothly. Does this sound a ammo issue or possible a headspace issue? I did full length some once fired 30.06 and these don't lock-up smoothly either. Very perplexed!!

[Old Dog]

Full length resizing means the die should touch the shell holder when the ram arm is fully raised.

I don't know what your instructions say but both my Pacific and Lee dies recommend the die contact the shell holder during resizing.  Another issue is a "short stroke" of the handle while resizing the brass.  If the brass doesn't go all the way into the die some won't be quite the same size.  Make sure you always push the handle down far enough that the die contacts the shell holder.

Now, for another example of just how different dies/rifle chambers can be - I did not adjust my resizing dies (Pacific) to contact the shell holder during the resizing operation.  I adjusted it so that it left a small dark ring of resizing lube right at the junction of the neck and the shoulder of the brass.  My M1A ate'em up with no issues.  Another M1A might not.

The small base die (I believe) will give you brass that is slightly smaller in diameter all along the sides of the case, not just down at the base. 

As for not fully chambering.  Two more issues are possible here.  One is the length of the brass.  Brass "stretches" during the resizing process (even during the firing process if the rifle it was fired in has way more headspace than your rifle).  The case mouth may be contacting the end of the chamber and not allowing the bolt to go all the way forward.  The second thing is the bullet may be contacting the lands of the rifling and stopping the cartridge from fully chambering.

#1 can be checked with a caliper.  Measure a new piece of brass (from the rim to the opening of the case mouth) and then measure your fired brass and your resized brass and see what the difference is.  You may need to trim the brass to the correct length.

#2 can be checked by chambering a reload and then ejecting it.  Look the bullet over real good to see if you can see the little marks, right in front of the case mouth, of the lands contacting the bullet.  If this is happening you need to adjust the seating die to seat the bullet a little deeper.

Buying bulk ammo (I assume that meant reloads, or "remanufactured" ammo as some call their products) doesn't mean its made correctly.  Measure those case lengths.

You can even use the calipers to measure the outside diameter of the resized brass and new ammo at various points up the side of the case.  Get a tape measure or ruler and mark the case at 1/2" intervals with a sharpie, then use the calipers to measure the outside diameter at each mark and compare your resized brass to new brass.

[LabRat]

kissell, if you don't already have one, get a case gauge for your .308 (and your .30-06 as well). They're pretty inexpensive and well worth the money. The gauges will allow you to set the sizing die so that your brass will chamber freely. If you're not using a gauge, you may think by looking that the die has contacted the shellholder, but it may actually be a few thousandths off and your resized shells will be too long to chamber well. I don't use the small-base dies on my M14SA (standard Dillon .308 sizer) and I've never had a problem, but I do set it to have 0.002" headspace to try and balance between stretching and reliable functioning when the chamber gets a little cruddy. You might try the gauge before you invest in a new set of dies. You don't say what press you're using, but if it's a Lee, they seem to have a lot of flex in their frames and that might account for the insufficient sizing you're getting. A stiffer press may help. I may be trying the recommend X-dies soon, though, because I hate trimming!

[Old Dog]

Wow, a press flexing?  Get rid of it and get a good cast iron "O" type press from RCBS or Pacific. 

If the press is flexing the brass may not even be "square".  With the case jamned up in the die if the press twisted slightly I could see it "bending" the base off the center line of the case.

Nickle would know more about how this might affect chambering if it's already close.

Oh, for what it's worth, I've never removed my extractor or ejector from my rifles' bolts to check to see about the chambering of my reloads.  I do it to check headspace, but not to check to see if my reloads chamber.

I'm an equal opportunity brass resizer.  If its the same caliber as my rifle and boxer primed, I reload it.  I even run .270 Win., .280 Rem. and .25-06 brass through my 30-06 resizer and make 30-06 brass out of it (the .280 and .270 requires some trimming to get it to the right length.)  I also resize .243 Win. to .308 and reload it.

Due to the availability of 30-06 brass (vs. .308) there's been some discussion on some other forums were folks have run 30-06 brass through a .308 sizer (that takes a lot of trimmining ).  So far there are some issues no one's figured out yet (first time reloaded everything works fine, 2nd time those cases are loaded the fire fine but the groups go to pieces).

I share the above just to let you know that brass is pretty darn flexible (one time - meaning drastic sizing from one caliber to another works okay one time but if you tried to alternate caliber each time you resized the brass it would split pretty quickly) so usually the brass isn't the problem.

If you get the chamber gauge and use it please come back and let us know how it works - meaning, if it fits in the gauge fine does it also fit in the chamber.

Good luck with this.

[kissell]

Thanks for the valuable info, hope all is well for your these holidays. Some food for thought when those out there shop at Wally-World and the likes. Look at the labels and see where it is made.

  "Someday a chinese soldier may put a bullet in my head, but I'll be damned if it is a bullet I've paid for. Buy American!"


                                                 Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays

[kissell]

Back again, had some interesting case related happenings. Got those 308 to feed like a dream into my M1A.
Before, the sizing was not working  at bringing them down to feed smoothly. Tried something a little off the wall. Tried a coating of light weight synthetic engine oil prior to sizing, bingo! Also I noticed to die seemed to work with less resistance while using a 3 stroke process taking the case about half way on first stroke, full on second and third stroke. Another thing happened which may be valuable to the ones with a bushel of 30.06 brass, but, need 308 brass. I followed a cut down proceedure discussed on this forum space, resized this 30.06 to 308, retrimmed and mic-ed the vital dimensions to find virtually 0-.001 difference from unfired mil-spec brass. This was also done with a thin coating of synthetic lube. Will have to clean cases extremely well, and the work involved is possible more than it is worth, however, knowing it can be done is the reward of the effort.
Hope all had a good Christmas!